k-hawinkler Posted October 21, 2011 Share #141 Posted October 21, 2011 Advertisement (gone after registration) http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/1863289-post145.html http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/1863309-post149.html Interesting if true. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted October 21, 2011 Posted October 21, 2011 Hi k-hawinkler, Take a look here Blackstone . I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
germanlaws Posted October 21, 2011 Share #142 Posted October 21, 2011 "Die Lisa Germany Holding GmbH, Frankfurt, Deutschland hat uns gemäß § 21 Abs. 1 WpHG am 20.10.2011 mitgeteilt, dass ihr Stimmrechtsanteil an der Leica Camera AG, Solms, Deutschland am 19.10.2011 (...) 97,56% (das entspricht 16096478 Stimmrechten) betragen hat." Means, that Lisa (=Blackstone) hat bougt the 44% from Kaufmann and occupies the rest to 97%. That could mean, they give the directon to Leica in the future an Dr. Kaufmann earns from his rest the money. Poor Leica, the morning of the end? lg Dieter Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 21, 2011 Share #143 Posted October 21, 2011 If ACM aquires the chip producing entity of Kodak in ca$h, Solms&Wetzlar would be in control! Sorry, my translation goof-up: "if Blackstone has already acquired t c p e of Kodak..." Believe me, le subjonctif est encore pire . Not to mention my maternal German grammar to international forum members. k-kwinkler and germanlaws were faster and better informed to answer. New page indeed. PS. post 149: sehr seltsam was da vorgeht = strange things happening. Buying cheap, risking and investing time, energy, connections and genius, selten heutzutage aber wieso seltsam? He'd be worth a nice salary and bonus to stay on. Or do you know anybody who did more for ca. 1500 people and families in Solms during the last years? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alberti Posted October 21, 2011 Share #144 Posted October 21, 2011 http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/1863289-post145.htmlhttp://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/1863309-post149.html Interesting if true. Translated as: On October 20, 2011, Lisa Germany Holding GmbH, Frankfurt, Deutschland has informed us according to Article 21, Section 1 of the WpHG that via shares its Voting Rights on Leica Camera AG, Solms, Deutschland, have exceeded the 3%, 5%, 10%, 15%, 20%, 25%, 30%, 50% and 75% threshold of the Voting Rights on October 19, 2011 and on that day amounted to 97.56% (this corresponds to 16096478 Voting Rights). This means to me full ownership is transferred from ACM, and A. Kaufmann is out. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alberti Posted October 21, 2011 Share #145 Posted October 21, 2011 Translated as: On October 20, 2011, Lisa Germany Holding GmbH, Frankfurt, Deutschland has informed us according to Article 21, Section 1 of the WpHG that via shares its Voting Rights on Leica Camera AG, Solms, Deutschland, have exceeded the 3%, 5%, 10%, 15%, 20%, 25%, 30%, 50% and 75% threshold of the Voting Rights on October 19, 2011 and on that day amounted to 97.56% (this corresponds to 16096478 Voting Rights). This means to me full ownership is transferred from ACM, and A. Kaufmann is out. The page is turned then. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
k_g_wolf ✝ Posted October 21, 2011 Share #146 Posted October 21, 2011 Well, why not just gather and pray for them ? best GEORG Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/164409-blackstone/?do=findComment&comment=1822851'>More sharing options...
Ecaton Posted October 21, 2011 Share #147 Posted October 21, 2011 Advertisement (gone after registration) Translated as: On October 20, 2011, Lisa Germany Holding GmbH, Frankfurt, Deutschland has informed us according to Article 21, Section 1 of the WpHG that via shares its Voting Rights on Leica Camera AG, Solms, Deutschland, have exceeded the 3%, 5%, 10%, 15%, 20%, 25%, 30%, 50% and 75% threshold of the Voting Rights on October 19, 2011 and on that day amounted to 97.56% (this corresponds to 16096478 Voting Rights). This means to me full ownership is transferred from ACM, and A. Kaufmann is out. Not necessarily. It could simply be that the two shareholders combine their Leica Camera AG stakes in a joint German holding to optimise the corporate tax structure (having leveraged Lisa GmbH filing consolidated tax returns and thus pushing leverage into target). So who are the owners of the Lisa GmbH shares, I assume ACM and Blackstone's German InvestCo in a 51 to 44 ratio. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posto 6 Posted October 21, 2011 Share #148 Posted October 21, 2011 If that is true, ACM have jobbed the market rather well, especially considering the economic backdrop. Good luck to them- and may they stay carefully watching, in case they can buy again at distress levels- the US financial markets may throw up many unexpected surprises over the coming months. I will try to find out first-hand the true situation and if I can, revert with more news. Bravo Andreas! Before anyone is too critical, remember the Schmidheiny episode- ACM's stewardship has been far more beneficial to the Group. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
k-hawinkler Posted October 21, 2011 Share #149 Posted October 21, 2011 Not necessarily. It could simply be that the two shareholders combine their Leica Camera AG stakes in a joint German holding to optimise the corporate tax structure (having leveraged Lisa GmbH filing consolidated tax returns and thus pushing leverage into target). So who are the owners of the Lisa GmbH shares, I assume ACM and Blackstone's German InvestCo in a 51 to 44 ratio. I don't know. I believe previously on this forum folks were saying is was BS. K-H. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ecaton Posted October 21, 2011 Share #150 Posted October 21, 2011 I don't know. I believe previously on this forum folks were saying is was BS. K-H. ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
k-hawinkler Posted October 21, 2011 Share #151 Posted October 21, 2011 BS = Blackstone Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 21, 2011 Share #152 Posted October 21, 2011 Right! That's what's going on here on in this thread of our forum: "folks saying". Why not enjoy the nice weather outside, taking some photographs? That's what I plan to do. Have a good week-end everyone! Best, Simon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
algrove Posted October 21, 2011 Share #153 Posted October 21, 2011 Who would even consider such a move? As far as I know, the only people ever suggesting Leica should let go of the camera business and concentrate on lenses were members of this forum. Hey, come on-just hoping it won't happen, but had to mention it. No need to be rude. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
glenerrolrd Posted October 21, 2011 Share #154 Posted October 21, 2011 Puts does a good job of describing the situation from the view point of someone that enjoys the current Leica products . Dr K s management of the company has been anything but smooth....we have some short memories ..M8 uv/ir filters ,warranty recalls,steven lee,abandonment of the R line, long expensive development efforts for the M8/9 and the S2. Supply chain failures . Sacking of one CEO , the 2nd lasted less than a product life cycle. But what has worked exceedingly well is the release and production of two superb products the M9 and the S2 . All is forgiven and you can even charge me a lot more thats how happy I am with the products . Too this point Dr K has looked as if his investment in Leica was based as much on prestige as on creating extraordinary returns . He isn t giving up hanging with the Magnum photographers in Paris or reclaiming the stage at Photokina anytime soon. We can speculate on what is driving his need to sell part of his holdings? not wanting to invest more ,need for estate planning , concern about his management team etc. While we may gain some insights into his thinking and thus the actual deal structure , it will take time to understand this area. Blackstone motivation for the deal and track record is both obvious and in many cases common knowledge . They are not long term builders of businesses but rather somewhat ruthless private equity investors . They study the opportunity for gaining a significant return and spend a lot less time on the how s. They would not stomach a period like Leica had with the M8 . In fact you could question if there is much about their operating model that is consistent with what has worked at Leica . They don t want to wreck Leica but they could force changes that while more profitable ..would not be so great for the existing customer base. What we can forecast (and what should concern most on this forum) is how this deal might change leica. Puts indicates he does not believe that long lead time ,low volume products requiring precision manufacturing in Germany will continue as the core of Leica s business strategy. This doesn t have to be as extreme as licensing the brand name ...but it can drive JV with other manufactures etc and most likely will shift the product offerings toward the higher volume consumer products and emerging growth markets in asia ,south america and the middle east . Dr K as much as indicates this in the press release. It could be that BS investment will be great for creating shareholder value and growing the business. But I am selfish in that I care about the ongoing investment in the M and S lines and really not much else. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
luigi bertolotti Posted October 22, 2011 Share #155 Posted October 22, 2011 Not necessarily. It could simply be that the two shareholders combine their Leica Camera AG stakes in a joint German holding to optimise the corporate tax structure (having leveraged Lisa GmbH filing consolidated tax returns and thus pushing leverage into target). So who are the owners of the Lisa GmbH shares, I assume ACM and Blackstone's German InvestCo in a 51 to 44 ratio. This is a point that worths some deeper understanding... : - The initial press release stated clearly that ACM would retain majority of shares. - And that Lisa GMBH was a "veichle company" controlled by Blackstone - The official statement above, made to market regulators, states clearly that Lisa has 97%+ of voting rights (all - minus the thin part of shares"floating in the market" - Voting rights doesn't coincide necessarly with shares' ownership , which probably is of one or more funds. Where are ACM shares and voting rights ? Has ACM kept the ownership of shares and passed the voting rights to Lisa/Blackstone ? Or has ACM got a significant (majority ?) stake in Lisa ? Surely all of this is part of a complex plan which, as has been said, involves also taxing considerations... anyway, is also surely an indicator that Dr. Kaufmann and Blackstone have a number of agreements about the future management of Leica Co., which I suppose will be disclosed, or anyway will become clear, in the next weeks/months. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjh Posted October 22, 2011 Share #156 Posted October 22, 2011 - The initial press release stated clearly that ACM would retain majority of shares.- And that Lisa GMBH was a "veichle company" controlled by Blackstone - The official statement above, made to market regulators, states clearly that Lisa has 97%+ of voting rights (all - minus the thin part of shares"floating in the market" - Voting rights doesn't coincide necessarly with shares' ownership , which probably is of one or more funds. There are two Lisas! BCP Lisa Germany GmbH is the entity controlled by Blackstone that has bought 44 percent of Leica Camera AG shares. Lisa Holding Germany GmbH is a different company holding 97.56 percent of voting rights, i.e. Blackstone’s (via BCP Lisa Germany) 44 percent plus the remaining 53.56 percent of shares still held by ACM. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjh Posted October 22, 2011 Share #157 Posted October 22, 2011 BS = Blackstone An unfortunate choice of abbreviation, if I may say so. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
adan Posted October 22, 2011 Share #158 Posted October 22, 2011 So is "Lisa" someone's relative or significant other - or does it stand for "Leica something-or-other." Or is it a steal from Steve Jobs' brilliant experiment? Apple Lisa - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
luigi bertolotti Posted October 22, 2011 Share #159 Posted October 22, 2011 There are two Lisas! BCP Lisa Germany GmbH is the entity controlled by Blackstone that has bought 44 percent of Leica Camera AG shares. Lisa Holding Germany GmbH is a different company holding 97.56 percent of voting rights, i.e. Blackstone’s (via BCP Lisa Germany) 44 percent plus the remaining 53.56 percent of shares still held by ACM. Good eye,Michael ... ... I missed this.... financiers are alway great fantasists...... so, apparently, Dr. Kaufmann and Blackstone are really willing to operate as a single "married" entity... this may be a good start point... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ecaton Posted October 22, 2011 Share #160 Posted October 22, 2011 This is a point that worths some deeper understanding... :- The initial press release stated clearly that ACM would retain majority of shares. - And that Lisa GMBH was a "veichle company" controlled by Blackstone - The official statement above, made to market regulators, states clearly that Lisa has 97%+ of voting rights (all - minus the thin part of shares"floating in the market" - Voting rights doesn't coincide necessarly with shares' ownership , which probably is of one or more funds. Where are ACM shares and voting rights ? Has ACM kept the ownership of shares and passed the voting rights to Lisa/Blackstone ? Or has ACM got a significant (majority ?) stake in Lisa ? Surely all of this is part of a complex plan which, as has been said, involves also taxing considerations... anyway, is also surely an indicator that Dr. Kaufmann and Blackstone have a number of agreements about the future management of Leica Co., which I suppose will be disclosed, or anyway will become clear, in the next weeks/months. This is the likely acquisition structure. The direct ownership of 45% and 55% in Lisa Holding by the two Partners translate into indirect ownership of 43,9% and 53,66% respectively in Leica Camera AG. Whether Lisa BCP is owned directly or indirectly by Blackstone is not known, but does not really matter for the discussion about the 97,56% Leica shares. Attached file is a jpeg, about Leica, but not shot with a Leica. Aperture, WB, iso and shutter speed unknown, no PP applied;). Hope moderators don't mind. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/164409-blackstone/?do=findComment&comment=1824021'>More sharing options...
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