LC-1 / D2 quandry ... do I buy another as a spare or upgrade to something else?

[audidudi]

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It turns out the serial number of my LC-1 puts it among those being recalled by Panasonic in Canada for sensor replacement and since I bought it used, I have no idea from which country it originated. Is there any chance the serial numbers are country specific? If so, this would mean my LC-1 is eligible for the recall that, so far, isn't available to U.S. owners.

 

Otherwise, I'm now concerned my LC-1 could fail at any moment and while I am not too concerned about the cost of repairing it if/when it does -- the ~$160 flat-fee charged by Panasonic US strikes me as quite reasonable -- I am concerned about my not being able to rely upon it working and having to carry a backup with me every time I'm out shooting with it. (A wise practice, to be sure, but I'm just a happy amateur, not a pro, so I generally do this only when I travel as it's an inconvenience otherwise.)

 

My quandry is that I really enjoy using the camera and also enjoy the quality of images it captures. Although my L1 creates larger, higher-resolution image files, the LC-1's images have a special "something" that very few cameras in my experience can replicate (and it isn't even the Lecia version!) and I'll very much miss it when if/when it ever dies.

 

So, do I start looking for a mint used one to hold onto as a spare? Or do I spend quite a bit more money and buy myself an R-D1s or -- gulp! -- an M8? Although I have the money to buy either body (it's the cost of the lenses for them that scares me!), I wouldn't say that I can really afford to do so ... on other hand, buying a second three-year old digital camera doesn't make a lot of sense and if I have to spend more money to address this issue, then that's what I'll do.

 

Any thoughts on this? Has anyone else made the leap from an LC-1 / D2 directly to an M8 and if so, do you have any regrets?

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[dugby]

Jeffrey, your scenario is not too different to my last 3 months. As a 35yr photo-vet, my D2 sufferred sensor unreliability 3 months ago, just 4 weeks before a special Tokyo/Paris/London trip coming from Australia.

 

In preparation for the trip I had done the right thing and bought a D-Lux2 as backup for my D2.

But the D-Lux2 images fall quite short of the D2's fantastic images

 

But with a dead-ish D2, I figured my choices were:

a) M8 with either 24 and 70 cron's (or even Voigtlanders), allowing for 1.3x crop factor.

R-D1s with either Crons, or even 15 and 50 Voigtlanders (as RD1 has a 1.5x crop factor)

c) L1 / D3

 

The dollars is not an issue for me, it's the un-reliability factor and associated 'down-time' that started to scare me. My D2 is currently on an extended holiday in Solms....wish I was to there with it !!!!! hahaha.

 

However after enjoing 20GB of shooting the D3/L1, I can say this is one magnificent camera, better than my D2, but with the big negatives, of being heavier, larger and having mirror noise.

 

I will definately keep my D2, as a backup, and I will even use the D2 for those occassions where I don't want to use my D3/L1 (ie in theatres during my daughter's performances)

 

The D3 is a better 'street camera' than the D2. I am capturing many shots that I previously missed on my D2, owing to the D2's slowness.

 

The OIS of the D3 extends my hand-held shooting down to the 1second shutter speeds, not possible with a D2 or...just about any other camera.

 

But for those slow, deliberate moments, in good light the D2 is still worthy.

 

Don't get me wrong, the M8 is still the much better camera, but I know I would be frustrated with the 1st generation model issues that we are seeing....... maybe Solms should have outsourced the manufacturing to Panasonic. (let the flames begin...)

 

There's no real obvious answer at the moment......

[audidudi]

However after enjoing 20GB of shooting the D3/L1, I can say this is one magnificent camera, better than my D2, but with the big negatives, of being heavier, larger and having mirror noise.

 

After shooting 12GB of handheld images in Kauai last week alone -- gotta love that OIS! -- I wholeheartedly agree with you about the quality of the L1's images.

 

I will definately keep my D2, as a backup, and I will even use the D2 for those occassions where I don't want to use my D3/L1 (ie in theatres during my daughter's performances)

 

Besides its image quality, one of the biggest plusses of shooting with an LC-1/D2 is the nearly inaudible shutter. I've taken photos 3' away from someone and they didn't hear the shutter!

 

The D3 is a better 'street camera' than the D2. I am capturing many shots that I previously missed on my D2, owing to the D2's slowness.

 

I agree the the L1/D3 is able to rattle off shots more quickly, especially if you shoot RAW, but if I plan well enough, I've found I can often work around the "slowness" of the LC-1/D2. Not always, of course, but more often than not.

 

But for those slow, deliberate moments, in good light the D2 is still worthy.

 

This is especially true when the subject has a pulse. I can't quite put what I see with its images into words, but the LC-1/D2 is very kind to portait subjects...

 

There's no real obvious answer at the moment......

 

Which is exactly why I was seeking advice here.

[Riley]

Jeffrey

When and if it fails you would repair it anyway...... yes?

The big problem for me is I need 4x3 frame for work, most dSLRs are 3x2. Having missed out on a sensor replaced D2 on ebay which went for crazy money, I began to check out other options in and around 4/3. When an opportunity came up to buy an Olympus E-300 for $350, ex demo, I grabbed it.

 

This was so I could check out 4/3 for myself, hell if it didnt work out, I could probably sell it for a profit anyway. As it happens Im pretty happy with it, and picked up an 11-22mm for $612, which improved my view of things a lot. Having now worked up a decent exposure plan and PP profile, this will be the future for my work, so maybe another body late this year, and definitely a Metz adapter etc. i already had some Olympus stuff like batteries, remote, Oly TTL flash, so it was an obvious direction.

 

I really dont see much point in having 2 of a wonderful but seriously flawed camera, tis better in my view to have more diverse options around the same theme to broaden the capability and yet provide a backup if and when required.

 

If I were you, (and Im not) I would wait until PMA has traveled by, just to see what happens. My principle interest is in what comes out of 4/3 for this year, and theres a lot on the table for Olympus in particular, perhaps Panasonic too, therefore another Leica clone ?

[audidudi]

When and if it fails you would repair it anyway...... yes?

 

Maybe, but not necessarily ... I bought mine on the cheap side because its eyepiece is all scratched up, so I can really only focus and compose with it using the LCD. Although this is fine for me (I wear glasses and the EVF isn't all that good even under ideal conditions), if I had to spend serious money to fix it, I probably won't bother.

 

If I were you, (and Im not) I would wait until PMA has traveled by, just to see what happens. My principle interest is in what comes out of 4/3 for this year, and theres a lot on the table for Olympus in particular, perhaps Panasonic too, therefore another Leica clone ?

 

One of the problems for me is that I skipped the entire generation of autofocus 35mm cameras in favor of a pair of venerable Minolta XKs and 15 Minolta MC/MD lenses, so the current generation of camera bodies from Canon, Nikon, Olympus, et al, all seem foreign to me. I don't like pushing buttons and spinning dials to adjust various settings, and when I recently checked out the Olympus E330 as a possible companion to my L1 (which is used primarily as a poor-man's digital back on my view camera), I put it back down almost as quickly as I picked it up. I also checked out the new Sony DSLR and rejected that one almost as quickly due solely to its form-factor.

 

However, the LC-1 (and to a lesser extent, the L1) feel natural in my hands. Not quite like my old Minoltas but close enough that I finally decided to buy a decent digital camera and put my scanner on a shelf in a closet. I also have a Minolta 7SII compact film camera and while I can't say I'm necessarily a rangefinder kind of guy (I prefer a ground-glass to all of them!), I don't have a problem shooting with one, which is why I'm not adverse to the R-D1s or M8 in principal, even though I'm a little hesitant in practice due to the cost of assembling a functional three-lens outfit.

 

So, unless Panasonic/Leica come out with an even better LC-1/D2 / L1/D3-style camera, I'm inclined to stick with the ones I have for as long as it makes sense. The problem is that it's difficult to determine exactly when that threshold is reached, hence the reason I'm starting to at least consider alternatives now that I know my LC-1's days are numbered...

 

That said, thanks for your input. If you're happy with what you've got today, waiting for a new-and-improved product is nearly always worthwhile!

[dugby]

I didn't want to push the 'option b' too loud , for respect to this Leica forum.

 

But the CV pathway is a very good way to get into a "M Class" and eventually a M8.2 or even M9........

[Riley]

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Well if worse came to worse, you could replace it pretty quickly, so I wouldnt worry too much on those grounds. And theres only 20 odd sleeps to PMA.

 

For me, as I work with my cameras, I need certainty, or as much as I can get. the M8 was never going to be suitable for my work, I guess I could make it work for me but I just know it wouldnt be easy. That said, mine is very low-end pro stuff, but it is really a dSLR dominated racket.

 

On that, the pros that made the move to M8 have my respect, and I was much disappointed to see the trashing one of them got here just the other day, after being so helpful to many.

 

I hear what you say about the control aspects, I much prefer aperture rings and speed dials like LC-1/D2/L1/D3 have. For a personal photography tool, quite aside from my work, I would go with the emotional flow and limit my options to those features. Likewise I come from a film background, an OM4Ti, a small, beautiful slim well featured camera, quite unlike the ungainly fugly stuff we see in digital.

[audidudi]

But the CV pathway is a very good way to get into a "M Class" and eventually a M8.2 or even M9........

 

You have a point: For the cost of an M8 body by itself, I could buy an R-D1s body and several CV lenses (and if I bought a refurbished one from Epson's clearance site and used CV lenses instead of new, I could probably buy one of each and still have a few bucks left over.)

 

Hmm...

[dugby]

I come from a film background, an OM4Ti, a small, beautiful slim well featured camera, quite unlike the ungainly fugly stuff we see in digital.

 

 

It's funny where an OM4 can lead a person.....

 

about my 3rd/4th camera in the early 70's was an OM1, pre-MD. I suggest I might have been the 1st person in Perth or even Australia with an OM, it was hand carried from Hong Kong within weeks of the initial world-wide launch.

 

After many happy years, I got into an OM4 a magnificent camera.....which I stupidly sold for the wrong reasons. (For those historians, an OM has always been considered as Japan's response to the succesfull Leica M)

 

About 4 years ago, the hunt for an OM4-Ti based system lead me to realise that a Leica M system was now affordable to me.....but where was all the film......? This paradigm shift and two friends with an M3 and M6 landed me into a Leica D2

 

I sometimes think I'll buy an el-cheapo OM1 to just leave on my desk and wind the film advance lever during my phone calls....hahaha

[Guest stnami]

I had a LC1 to backup the D2 sold it eventually saw no point, ended up with a stop gap camera..... Pentax K100/21mm lens all for under US$1000.00, great images ideal for my type of work, lives on f5.6 800-1600iso.

House renovations come first probably pick up a m8 for B&W work next year unless a new Leica R comes out( doubt it), then one has to think about it.

By all means go for the m8 if you can... atleast now you know what you are in for. Then there are some happy 4:3 people out there, I gave up on Oly and co, no small primes etc etc... still have a om for landscape foilage contrast work

 

Basically if you don't care for Canon or Nikon the fieldd starts to cramp up

[Riley]

yeah dugby

no idea why I sold my wonderful black Ti, probably for the coin

they're still worth a bomb even today on ebay

 

Imants

like was pointed out to me, Olympus zooms arnt as bad as most

while the 11-22 is semi pro, whatever that is, its quite free of distortion until you get way too close, and relatively fast at 2.8. Certainly distortion free at the long end

 

so rather than some glamour shot this is 11mm F8 shooting upsun, suns behind tree at right, no too contrasty

[Guest stnami]

Don't get me wrong the 11-22 is a great zoom,probably the best out there (DSLR) just too big for my needs. Most would love the weight and feel

ps. We own a little sandstone cottage in Wayville/Unley

[Riley]

yes its cheerfully weighty, around twice the kit lens

 

...but way lighter than LC-1 wide converter (DMW_LW69) which at 23mm weighs an easy 2lbs on its own.

add the Metz 54 and 4 batteries to that and I actually get tired carrying it around

[dugby]

Hey Rob, how about posting a couple samples of the same shot, with and without of that Wide adaptor for the D2/LC1.

 

I always wondered just what you capture more, with it ...

[Riley]

Sure dugby,

Here right out of the camera reduced for the net, 28mm first then 23mm, its night here now so it has to be in the office with Metz 54 Mz3 @-1/3 stop, F4. I tried to keep the same edge at left. You may notice the barreling in the wider 23mm shot. I couldnt use this camera for work without this adapter. I usually adjust saturation/sharpness for clients, but its usually pretty right straight out of the camera, and more or less automatic to use. The Metz is superb

[Riley]

Just to give you an idea, this file uses the same profile I use for work images

the barreling is taken out, colours sharpness and saturation are adjusted by the profile macro

then the verticals are straightened. It makes the reds, which are normally uncommon in such great areas inside a house look rather too sharp.

 

That said, this isnt an image I would use, more usually an image is made that is the comfortable eye level for that room. Standing height in the kitchen and bathroom, sitting eye level in lounges (as this appears) and bedrooms. With an eye to more floor in view than ceiling, unless that ceiling is rather special. I would also want a well exposed view of outside, which is somewhat difficult at night.