ChiILX1 Posted August 23, 2011 Author Share #41 Posted August 23, 2011 Advertisement (gone after registration) I'd like to see some input from some of the low paid workers that others refer to here. Maybe they actually quite like what they do, like where they live, their families, friends and lives? Just a thought. I recall something on the news about the people living in an Indian slum town fighting to save it, they don't want to move out to new housing, they like where they live, close to jobs which will disappear with their houses and community. It's not so simple. James, respectfully, they were bulldozing their homes. It was all they had of course they didn't want to leave. I respect your posts in this forum too much to think you are possibly saying the most extreme poverty can be a good thing or that people like it... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted August 23, 2011 Posted August 23, 2011 Hi ChiILX1, Take a look here Made in Germany means something!. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
mattnnz Posted August 23, 2011 Share #42 Posted August 23, 2011 Indeed- and please quit wasting ours. Speak for yourself when discussing your clearly sub-par education which depended on teacher agreement and left you with a social argument that sounds like a plantation owner in the mid 19th century. My liberal arts education got me to critically think a bit more than that. Wow dude. Looks like most of what you learned was make huge jumps in logic. A plantation owner... If these people get paid and they are free to go then they are not slaves. The truth is if you have good food and clean dry place to lay your head at night things aren't that bad. I live in Vietnam and do occasionally spend time with people who literally have these basics checked off. If you see how the rice farmers work, you'd take 2 factory jobs over that toil. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
djsteb Posted August 23, 2011 Share #43 Posted August 23, 2011 Um. I'm talking about college, yeah that thing thats been around for thousands of years broadening horizons. I'm not talking about a specific college, I'm talking about ANY college, from Arkansas State in good ol' Jonesboro, Arkansas to UC Berkley up there where all the hippies live. When all of a sudden did they start poisoning minds? I'd like a specific date range if you don't mind. to mattnnz: Yes the days of finding a good job blue collar job is over because of outsourcing. When again did that happen? Oh thats right when everything was deregulated! Now who likes to deregulate companies so they can contribute billions of dollars to political campaigns and do whatever the f*&ck they want, whether its poisoning the environment or shutting down all their U.S. factories and destroying unions..hmmm who was that? Well I guess I'll never know because college is dumb and I want to learn from the t.v ..WOHOOOO! Around 1970, by the way poisoning is your word indoctrination implies presenting only one side of an argument. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluebear Posted August 23, 2011 Share #44 Posted August 23, 2011 Heading to Hawaii soon and will be taking my X1 and leaving my D90 behind. Hopefully, I can have some equally amazing pictures with this smaller camera. Enjoy the trip. Look forward to seeing some of your shots on the forum - at least they'll be "made in Hawaii..!" Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ecaton Posted August 23, 2011 Share #45 Posted August 23, 2011 And I thought this thread was whether or not a Leica "made in Germany" rather than somewhere else is technically (fit, finishing, manufacturing tolerances, precision of mechanics) a better/superior Leica Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluebear Posted August 23, 2011 Share #46 Posted August 23, 2011 And I thought this thread was whether or not a Leica "made in Germany" rather than somewhere else is technically (fit, finishing, manufacturing tolerances, precision of mechanics) a better/superior Leica Spot on! All this philosophy stuff is a bit off the mark IMHO. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiILX1 Posted August 23, 2011 Author Share #47 Posted August 23, 2011 Advertisement (gone after registration) Wow dude. Looks like most of what you learned was make huge jumps in logic. A plantation owner... If these people get paid and they are free to go then they are not slaves. The truth is if you have good food and clean dry place to lay your head at night things aren't that bad. I live in Vietnam and do occasionally spend time with people who literally have these basics checked off. If you see how the rice farmers work, you'd take 2 factory jobs over that toil. There are places where people don't have much but are happy and don't seek much else, such as traditional, rural agricultural communities in Peru and Mexico where I've lived, but I haven't yet found a people who, despite all considerations, consider extreme poverty, especially through wage labor, having "made it." Prostitutes in Thailand have it better getting paid pennies for sex tourism than getting nothing for rape in Cambodia sure, but more often than not it's not what they want for themselves. Spot on! All this philosophy stuff is a bit off the mark IMHO. From my original post, I agree, but it changed for me with : ...in the vast majority of cases, it doesn't matter - particuarly when talking about electronic equipment. It's a global economy - it doesn't matter whether the hands that drive the machine that makes the part are black, white, brown, yellow or purple with blue spots; what matters is that they are appropriately trained and skilled to do the job. Get used to it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill Posted August 23, 2011 Share #48 Posted August 23, 2011 Please don't blame me for your rants and sideswipes at everyone who has the temerity to hold a different view to you - I merely pointed out how the world works. Regards, Bill Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiILX1 Posted August 23, 2011 Author Share #49 Posted August 23, 2011 I'm not blaming you- I own my own words. And I merely shared my own opinion, disagreeing with yours, and gave my reasons and reactions. I enjoy engaging in hobby-talk sure, but I also enjoy engaging in meaningful discussions when the opportunities arise. You could sum up my seemingly 'radical' so-called "rant" with this statement: Any person on this globe would prefer to be compensated fairly for their labor so as to make a decent living for themselves and their families, rather than be exploited to the point of extreme poverty. No one prefers to suffer. Furthermore, I don't think those who are legally protected from exploitation should be punished by companies for their protection by losing their jobs to those who can be. Obviously, the dollar from my purchase continues in some small or large way the continuation of a business and its methods. Therefore, given the choices I have and limits of my finances, I choose to purchase products made by companies that provide the people and environment in their sourcing/manufacturing/assembly supply chain with the care I agree with, even if it can't be 100% perfect at this given time, and even if that means I buy used or even nothing at all if necessary and/or possible, regardless of where it's made or who makes it. If it was up to me imports would not be allowed into my country which were at any point the product of hands paid below their location's minimal living wage, as set by some trustworthy independent NGO. But for now I must do what I can- and I refuse to get used to "how the world works" as you say. I'm not so disengaged from the world and alienated from my purchasing power. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiILX1 Posted August 23, 2011 Author Share #50 Posted August 23, 2011 No. I have been to Solms and seen how the cameras and lenses are made, but I have not appeared on video. I would recommend to anyone interested in Leicas to visit the factory and see for themselves how it is done. You will also see the state in which the cameras and lens blanks etc are brought to the factory, from Portugal, Japan and elsewhere. Really awesome- I didn't know we could visit so I just added this to the list of things to do when I go to Europe in December. Thanks! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
anupmc Posted August 23, 2011 Share #51 Posted August 23, 2011 I'm not blaming you- I own my own words. And I merely shared my own opinion, disagreeing with yours, and gave my reasons and reactions. I enjoy engaging in hobby-talk sure, but I also enjoy engaging in meaningful discussions when the opportunities arise. You could sum up my seemingly 'radical' so-called "rant" with this statement: Any person on this globe would prefer to be compensated fairly for their labor so as to make a decent living for themselves and their families, rather than be exploited to the point of extreme poverty. No one prefers to suffer. Furthermore, I don't think those who are legally protected from exploitation should be punished by companies for their protection by losing their jobs to those who can be. Obviously, the dollar from my purchase continues in some small or large way the continuation of a business and its methods. Therefore, given the choices I have and limits of my finances, I choose to purchase products made by companies that provide the people and environment in their sourcing/manufacturing/assembly supply chain with the care I agree with, even if it can't be 100% perfect at this given time, and even if that means I buy used or even nothing at all if necessary and/or possible, regardless of where it's made or who makes it. If it was up to me imports would not be allowed into my country which were at any point the product of hands paid below their location's minimal living wage, as set by some trustworthy independent NGO. But for now I must do what I can- and I refuse to get used to "how the world works" as you say. I'm not so disengaged from the world and alienated from my purchasing power. Let me guess... You know all about China and Cambodia from watching CNN and reading the Washington Post. Pompous self-righteous posts such as yours don't belong in a civil forum.... Just my honest opinion. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiILX1 Posted August 23, 2011 Author Share #52 Posted August 23, 2011 That's a very strong conclusion from an admitted "guess"! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
djsteb Posted August 24, 2011 Share #53 Posted August 24, 2011 I'm not blaming you- I own my own words. And I merely shared my own opinion, disagreeing with yours, and gave my reasons and reactions. I enjoy engaging in hobby-talk sure, but I also enjoy engaging in meaningful discussions when the opportunities arise. You could sum up my seemingly 'radical' so-called "rant" with this statement: Any person on this globe would prefer to be compensated fairly for their labor so as to make a decent living for themselves and their families, rather than be exploited to the point of extreme poverty. No one prefers to suffer. Furthermore, I don't think those who are legally protected from exploitation should be punished by companies for their protection by losing their jobs to those who can be. Obviously, the dollar from my purchase continues in some small or large way the continuation of a business and its methods. Therefore, given the choices I have and limits of my finances, I choose to purchase products made by companies that provide the people and environment in their sourcing/manufacturing/assembly supply chain with the care I agree with, even if it can't be 100% perfect at this given time, and even if that means I buy used or even nothing at all if necessary and/or possible, regardless of where it's made or who makes it. If it was up to me imports would not be allowed into my country which were at any point the product of hands paid below their location's minimal living wage, as set by some trustworthy independent NGO. But for now I must do what I can- and I refuse to get used to "how the world works" as you say. I'm not so disengaged from the world and alienated from my purchasing power. Pablo Neruda ! now everything clicks into focus Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NZDavid Posted August 24, 2011 Share #54 Posted August 24, 2011 Crikey what a lively thread! I'm expecting a UN resolution anytime soon. "Made in Germany" has been used as a marketing tool by German companies to promote their products. The phrase has been used, quite intentionally, as a byword for quality. Even if you pay more. Which you can justify not only because you expect quality, but also because you are indeed to contributing to decent wages and labor conditions for workers. Worth it? Most of us I guess would say yes. Made in China Leica anyone? What if it was made to the same standards but cost a lot less? Qualities generally assumed to be typically German are reliability, precision, and technical excellence, often but not always in preference to an over abundance of features or cutting-edge innovation. Design also often borrows from the Bauhaus movement with an emphasis on simplicity and clarity (Dieter Rams, for example). Until approximately the 90s "Made in Germany" unquestionably meant just that. In the era of globalization, it is not so clear cut. There is no legal definition. As the phrase becomes fuzzier, it will undoubtedly lose some of its marketing power. Some firms now say "Designed in" a particular country, the reality being that it is actually made somewhere else to increase profits (er, cut costs), which of course benefits the consumer who pays less even if it is not as well made. Hmm. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
phancj Posted August 24, 2011 Share #55 Posted August 24, 2011 At risk of even more flaming in this already perilous thread I would be tempted to think that now "Made in XXX" no longer can be equated with any promise of build quality, Germany included. My made in japan nikkors are decidedly better than the made in thailand/china ones though.... CJ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pop Posted August 24, 2011 Share #56 Posted August 24, 2011 Pablo Neruda ! now everything clicks into focus And whose is this? We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tietje Posted August 24, 2011 Share #57 Posted August 24, 2011 Some firms now say "Designed in" a particular country, the reality being that it is actually made somewhere else to increase profits (er, cut costs), which of course benefits the consumer who pays less even if it is not as well made. Hmm. All that "Irish ham" means is that the ham was packed in a factory in Ireland. Where the actual ham comes from is anybodies guess! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluebear Posted August 24, 2011 Share #58 Posted August 24, 2011 Where the actual ham comes from is anybodies guess! Pigs...? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
250swb Posted August 24, 2011 Share #59 Posted August 24, 2011 IMO this raises the question as to what is a decent wage and how are you to determine it?Is it to be what in "our" world is a decent wage or is it to be relative to their living standard? If they were paid a "decent" wage, could you afford the resulting items? The whole post was an ironic statement, the supposition being theat the OP wouldn't be throwing all his electronic goods in the bin for a principle. If you need this telegraphing to you, try this Steve Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill Posted August 24, 2011 Share #60 Posted August 24, 2011 Where the actual ham comes from is anybodies guess! Thespians... Regards, Bill Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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