pop Posted August 1, 2011 Share #101 Posted August 1, 2011 Advertisement (gone after registration) Nowdays some media uses error correction during write to salve data after write errors or subsequent errors. Noel A fat deal of good this does when the block is not written at all to the medium. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted August 1, 2011 Posted August 1, 2011 Hi pop, Take a look here M9 locked up leading to a very important photo missed.. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
pico Posted August 1, 2011 Share #102 Posted August 1, 2011 This would make sense if Leica could identify specific sequences of button pushing that locks up the camera or causes other problems. But if there is no rhyme or reason to what causes the issues, how do you know this matters? When I used to write software, I tested it by trying to crash it via "irrational abuse" of the keyboard while processes were running. With real-time processing a test board to act as the user to run through user and data input is most handy. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
k-hawinkler Posted August 1, 2011 Share #103 Posted August 1, 2011 With real-time processing a test board to act as the user to run through user and data input is most handy. I agree. It's essential. That very method was incredibly effective in some of the projects I was involved in. And the test boards were specifically designed for just this purpose, putting the to be checked out equipment through paces even a large number of humans never could. Test boards only test what was designed into them. Therefore, you also need testing by humans as humans are entirely unpredictable - whether intentionally or inadvertently. They will push buttons on the M9 at the most inopportune times. Best, K-H. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pico Posted August 1, 2011 Share #104 Posted August 1, 2011 The software ought to be designed to handle all legitimate operations in any order at all, even if it fails to make sense to the software engineer. If consumers manage to confuse the built-in computers in a way which ruins the main or only purpose of the device, the design is not robust enough. I agree. It should also deal with irrational user actions. Including the on/off switch. I'd like to see error messages such as "SLAP! Don't do that ever again. Image lost." Of course, many of us don't know what we did at the moment, such as the time I removed the card without turning off the camera - but regardless that I could no longer read the card on the LCD, I could transfer the images to the MacAir, reformat without wiping, and start again. But a message like "Dear Leica Wizard - yer wand is up yer ass" would be helpful. To me. I need the humbling. Have you ever been thrown off your bike just because you applied the indicator and failed to change your direction as indicated? Nope. I was hit by a car once, and tried to jump a race bike over some complicated RR tracks. All operator stupidity. (BTW - got the bike 'rebooted' with a lot of new parts. You think Leicas are spendy? Try CF bikes. (The helmet maker (Trek) replaced my helmet for free in 10 days. I asked for a new head with scars removed, but they didn't respond to that part.) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
glacierparkmagazine Posted August 1, 2011 Share #105 Posted August 1, 2011 At first I dealt with the M9s quirks. Now they simply piss me off. The Leica glass makes this system shine, but history won't be kind to this camera. It's a clunker. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
thighslapper Posted August 1, 2011 Share #106 Posted August 1, 2011 I've had 2 M9's, taken 10k photos and used 6x 16gb class 10 and 3x8gb class 4 sandisk cards and never had an issue. A digital camera is a computer that takes signals from a light sensitive chip, processes them and exports them to a storage medium. If you have enough processes running or press enough keys on any computer you can lock it up. Same with bolting on different hardware, formatting media in different machines etc. Digital cameras are no different. Unfortunately the M9 is like a PC running windows...... made of variably sourced individual components and running a pretty mediocre operating system.... I'm not surprised there are some problems under some circumstances. NIkon/Canon etc. can afford to design custom integrated hardware and have operating systems tuned precisely to it...... similar to Apple with Macs..... which is why the problem rate is so much lower. Leica does not have the financial clout, size, time or expertise to beat these guys. Give them a break...... they did achieve the virtual impossible to create an M series full frame digital camera after all. As with all low volume products it is the customer that does the ultimate quality testing..... and low incidence problems take a certain volume of usage to appear and to produce a pattern that allows identification of the cause. If you are using GENUINE Leica recommended cards and have persistent problems that cannot possibly be user generated, you have a motherboard issue. Send it back and ask for it to be replaced .... or put up with it and stop complaining..... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tappan Posted August 2, 2011 Author Share #107 Posted August 2, 2011 Advertisement (gone after registration) As the OP in this thread I have one additional thought here....That is, I think it is important to note here once again, that the M9 is NOT a DSLR. I am guilty, like some of us are here, of shooting the M9 like, let's say, a Canon EOS Mark 111. One can't put too much "finger" into it! and why would one want to? The M9 is a masterpiece that should NOT be shot with an itchy trigger finger. It's like asking a Porshe to four-wheel- drive up onto a beach. So, in closing, while my "heated" concern was warranted, I have now had a few days to think this through. My M9 has been very reliable and an awesome new tool. I can live with a once in great while "hiccup" Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
steelduck Posted August 2, 2011 Share #108 Posted August 2, 2011 Leica has acknowledged the issue and is looking for a fix, so PLEASE stop these "User Error" messages... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tappan Posted August 2, 2011 Author Share #109 Posted August 2, 2011 Leica has acknowledged the issue and is looking for a fix, so PLEASE stop these "User Error" messages... Why? Why should we stop trying to "nudge" Leica into a fix? I have not received any indication from Leica that they even know about this let alone are ready to fix it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted August 2, 2011 Share #110 Posted August 2, 2011 Yes - Leica is looking for a fix for the cameras that behave anomalously - and Sandisk is looking at the cards and Jenoptik is looking at the software. All very useful - especially for those that have trouble - but a part of the problem is that the user is a factor as well and many cameras/cards don't misbehave. So it is perfectly legitimate to look at the user error aspect. All sides of the argument have their place in a discussion and it is not correct to ask the other side to shut up. Leica has acknowledged the issue and is looking for a fix, so PLEASE stop these "User Error" messages... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
steelduck Posted August 2, 2011 Share #111 Posted August 2, 2011 Why? Why should we stop trying to "nudge" Leica into a fix? I have not received any indication from Leica that they even know about this let alone are ready to fix it. I think you misunderstood me (might be a language thing, as english is not my native language) I meant these comments stating that "there nothing wrong with M9 and the persons who have these issues are just using the camera "wrong""... ie. Pushing the play while the camera is writing, deleting pictures etc. JAAPV: If the manufacturer of the camera has informed that there is an issue that they are looking into (open a service call, they will let you know), I think I can ask the people who state that there is no issue to "shut up". (I tried to be polite though) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted August 2, 2011 Share #112 Posted August 2, 2011 Why? Why should we stop trying to "nudge" Leica into a fix? I have not received any indication from Leica that they even know about this let alone are ready to fix it. Maybe you are not on their mailing list? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xmas Posted August 2, 2011 Share #113 Posted August 2, 2011 Why? Why should we stop trying to "nudge" Leica into a fix? I have not received any indication from Leica that they even know about this let alone are ready to fix it. Hi You would need a personally scripted and illuminated parchment from the Leica team that is trying to identify the problem? They did not do anything about the Zinc top plate and back door of the M6... Lots of people dont get the problem are you sure your card is not counterfeit? Had 'counterfiet' micro processors worked ok except they would not pass our stress tests. The 2nd source had not bought the latest mask sets from prime. Noel Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
WigglePig Posted August 2, 2011 Share #114 Posted August 2, 2011 that the M9 is NOT a DSLR. True, although it is a modern digital camera. It should work. And it's quite expensive. One can't put too much "finger" into it! and why would one want to? The M9 is a masterpiece that should NOT be shot with an itchy trigger finger. Yeah, that's the thing. Why would anyone want to take a few photos in quick succession? *sigh* Piggly Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted August 2, 2011 Share #115 Posted August 2, 2011 JAAPV: If the manufacturer of the camera has informed that there is an issue that they are looking into (open a service call, they will let you know), I think I can ask the people who state that there is no issue to "shut up". (I tried to be polite though) I am here to ensure everybody has a platform for their opinion. No member who behaves civilly will be told to "shut up" on my watch. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tappan Posted August 2, 2011 Author Share #116 Posted August 2, 2011 True, although it is a modern digital camera. It should work. And it's quite expensive. Yeah, that's the thing. Why would anyone want to take a few photos in quick succession? *sigh* Piggly I am still upset that there is a delete/card glitch and this NEEDS to be fixed right away. All I was saying is that the camera does not behave like a, lets say, EOS 1D Mark 111, where I, at times, lean on the shutter for sports or something like that. That is NOT where the M9's strength is. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
WigglePig Posted August 2, 2011 Share #117 Posted August 2, 2011 I am still upset that there is a delete/card glitch and this NEEDS to be fixed right away. All I was saying is that the camera does not behave like a, lets say, EOS 1D Mark 111, where I, at times, lean on the shutter for sports or something like that. That is NOT where the M9's strength is. True enough, it might not be where its strength is but it certainly shouldn't lock up. It might slow down, stutter, etc, as the buffer is filled and it tries to shift data into storage, but it should not lock up. No other camera I have owned, with the exception of my M8, has ever done this. And to the posters who say that a digital camera is a computer and can therefore be caused to lock up or crash by injudicious operation of the controls I must say: tosh! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andybarton Posted August 2, 2011 Share #118 Posted August 2, 2011 I am still upset that there is a delete/card glitch and this NEEDS to be fixed right away. And Leica are working on it... No matter how many capitals one puts in a post, or how many threads are started about the same thing, it won't get fixed any quicker. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
k-hawinkler Posted August 2, 2011 Share #119 Posted August 2, 2011 True enough, it might not be where its strength is but it certainly shouldn't lock up. It might slow down, stutter, etc, as the buffer is filled and it tries to shift data into storage, but it should not lock up. No other camera I have owned, with the exception of my M8, has ever done this. And to the posters who say that a digital camera is a computer and can therefore be caused to lock up or crash by injudicious operation of the controls I must say: tosh! Spot on remarks. I agree. I have never held an M8 or M8.2 or whatever M8s there are in my hands. However, reading the other very long thread, there seems to be some evidence presented that the M9 carries on the "tradition" including some bugs. Best, K-H. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
k-hawinkler Posted August 2, 2011 Share #120 Posted August 2, 2011 And Leica are working on it... No matter how many capitals one puts in a post, or how many threads are started about the same thing, it won't get fixed any quicker. Really? If this issue had never been discussed extensively on this forum why should Leica invest precious resources in fixing an apparently non-existing problem? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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