M8.2 + lenses: Your advice is needed

[Zsolt Arkossy]

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I am a long time reader of this forum (first learn, then ask... :-), but I got to a point when I would like to ask your suggestions and recommendations to my particular question as well.

 

I have an M8.2 for 2 years now with one lens, Leica Elmarit 28mm f2.8 (~35mm on 8.2). I love it, I have been shooting thousands of pictures with it. I do print my pictures on Epson 3880, so I am aware of the effect of sharpness/bokeh/grain on paper. But after 2 years I tend to miss some other ranges as well. I would like to keep only a few lenses possible, so I was seriously thinking getting a Summarit 75mm, but I learned from you guys, that the frame lines are not the best set up. So the other option is getting a 50mm and a 90mm.

 

On 90mm I think I will get a new Summarit 90. I tried it in a shop, and seems a quality lens. So I think I am OK with the plan here.

 

Regarding the 50mm I am a bit lost. I learned from the last 20 years of shooting that you need to invest in lenses rather than bodies, so I am ready to invest... Even in a new Summilux ASPH 50mm 1.4 - the waiting list is about 5 months, but I am still OK with it. On the other hand I hear that the Zeiss Planar 50mm f2 is also an excellent lens for 1/3 price... Though I can afford to buy the Summilux I wouldn't want to spend a fortune if the differences are neglectable. As I had no option to try any of these lenses I am quite lost what to do. (I ruled out the Summicron for the flare issues and the Summarit for not being the best in the league - again, I am looking for long time investment in lenses, my options are very limited in Europe to return or sell lenses)

 

So with all that background, my questions:

1. Ignore the 50/90 lenses and get only a 75 Summarit?

- if not a 75 Summarit then:

2. Do you recommend the newest 90 Summarit?

3. 50mm Summilux ASPH or 50mm Zeiss Planar?

 

Looking forward to your expert opinions!

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[johnloumiles]

I have a 75 Summarit on a M8 and I love it, you can't go wrong. Keep in mind its actually about 100mm on a M8.

 

For that same reason I feel like a 90 is a bit long for everyday use in the M8. I have a 90 Elmar and I rarely use it.

 

All that said if you can afford a 50 lux there really is no other choice. It's one of the best lenses in the world and you can use it all the time so it makes the most sense.

 

If you want more insight on the 75 Summarit let me know.

[trs]

I don't really have an advise parse, but I did start with same lens you have. Love the lens. Then added 75 cron ASPH and love it. It was great combo. Unless 8.2 has different frameline than M8, I find 75mm frameline just fine. Then I found the 50mm Lux ASPH for great deal, just I grabbed it. Over two years I was uneasy about frameline for 50mm on M8, but now I am very much used to it. So, I find I have 50mm on my M8 than other two lens.

 

I acquired both 50Lux ASPH and 75Cron ASPH due to their reputation and really happy with the purchase. Will not part with them.

 

Happy shopping.

[richam]

Agree with John. The 75 Summarit is an excellent companion for the M8. Only f2.5, but fast enough for nearly all situations; the focal length means you can get good DOF effects. Excels at portraits and the bokeh is very pleasant. An example at f2.5:

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[Sean Speed]

Currently, I'm on an one lens setup with my M8.2, the Summilux-M 50mm 1:1.4 ASPH. It's 67mm equivalent on a 35mm and IMHO, this focal length is very flattering for portraits (not to mention the bokeh is 'cheesy' creamy) and the frame lines on M8.2 are spot on all the time. I strongly suggest you add this to your collection, it will definitely still very useful, if not the best, when you are thinking of upgrading your M8.2 to M9/M9-P or future full-frame bodies.

[ramosa]

As you probably know, there are lots of threads about lens preferences, etc.--and all recommendations are to be taken with a grain of salt because we all see so differently. That said, I, like you, began with an Elmarit 28 on my M8. After a few purchases and sales, I still have the Elmarit 28, plus a Lux 50 ASPH and Rollei Planar 80. I primarily do urban/street photography, and I can assure you that I use the Lux 50 THE LEAST. By far! I have gotten some cool images with it (and it's a great lens), but, for how I see on the streets, I like either wider (i.e., 28 on M8 for general street captures) or longer (i.e., 80 on M8 for street close ups). In fact, if I thought I'd be using my M8 for a long time, I would definitely sell my Lux 50 ASPH, so that my most expensive lens would NOT be at my least used focal length. (When I someday move to FF, I do, however, think I'll use the 50 much, much more.) That's my current "rub," having an expensive Lux 50 and not using it very often.

 

If you plan to have the Elmarit 28 and another lens, I would recommend that you NOT get a 50 and, instead, ponder a 75 or 90. I think a 28-75 or 90 combo is better than a 28-50 combo. For me, it'd be the 90 ... because I tend to like the longer reach of even my 80 and because I know I personally wouldn't want a 75mm on a M9 ... If you ponder a 90, I would not recommend the Summarit 90, but instead a used Elmarit 90 or pre-asph Cron 90 (depending on your preferences for size, speed, and rendering).

[!Nomad64]

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First, IMHO the 50 Planar and the 'lux shouldn't be compared shoulder to shoulder since the first is an f2 whilst the second is an f1.4. You'd better to compare the Planar with the Summicron. Whilst I can't speak upon direct experience about this latter, I can say that the Planar is optically excellent. It's surgically sharp and contrasted with even performance from corner to corner already at full aperture and marginally improves by stopping down. Compared with other Leitz glass I have, it's got an excellent flare control. I think that mechanics are sub-par than Leitz and the price difference mirrors it. I have the suspect that over time it'll loosen a bit more easier than Leitz counterparts albeit this might be not entirely true. Time ago I had a discussion with a pro member who stated that under heavy use his Zeiss lenses tolerated more abuses than Leitz. In any case it'll be serviced by Zeiss Oberkochen and they are very good, serious and reliable. I know first hand as I had my Sonnar CLAed prior to put it for sale. If you don't need the extra stop you can save plenty of bucks and time and be happy with the Planar.

 

Next. I don't believe that 75 frame lines aren't the best setup. I have an M8 whose framelines are quite screwed as they're optimized for close distance and force me all the times to guess what will go into the picture and what not. AFAIK this inconvenience was made true with the M8.2 and M8 owners were given the option to upgrade.

 

If you don't mind the f2.5 aperture the Summarit 75 (like all Summarits!) is excellent bang for the buck. Erwin Puts who is heavily focused on performance has nothing but words of praise for the whole set.

You might - and I stress *might* - however miss something in between 28 and 75. Too much of a gap IMHO.

Fyg my setup with the M8 was 24, 50 and 90. For reasons I'm not able to explain I was very happy with it but as I switched back to film I felt the urge of filling the gap between 24 and 50 thus I dropped in a 35.

In your case you might eventually end with 28 Elmarit, 35 Summarit or Summicron and 75 Summarit (thus replicating in M8 terms the Holy Trinity 35-50-90), but that's just my idea. Otherwise 28 Elmarit, 50 Summarit (yes, why not?) or Planar and 90 Summarit (or used Elmarit M last version) as you initially considered. In any case you won't go wrong. What I just wouldn't advise is to pairing the 50 with the 75 or the 75 with the 90 as they are too close.

 

Hope this helps,

Bruno

 

P.S. If you'll want a Planar I'd might sell you mine in pristine conditions, with hood. PM me if interested. It was superseded by a PreAsph Summilux...

[Sean Speed]

As you probably know, there are lots of threads about lens preferences, etc.--and all recommendations are to be taken with a grain of salt because we all see so differently. That said, I, like you, began with an Elmarit 28 on my M8. After a few purchases and sales, I still have the Elmarit 28, plus a Lux 50 ASPH and Rollei Planar 80. I primarily do urban/street photography, and I can assure you that I use the Lux 50 THE LEAST. By far! I have gotten some cool images with it (and it's a great lens), but, for how I see on the streets, I like either wider (i.e., 28 on M8 for general street captures) or longer (i.e., 80 on M8 for street close ups). In fact, if I thought I'd be using my M8 for a long time, I would definitely sell my Lux 50 ASPH, so that my most expensive lens would NOT be at my least used focal length. (When I someday move to FF, I do, however, think I'll use the 50 much, much more.) That's my current "rub," having an expensive Lux 50 and not using it very often.

 

If you plan to have the Elmarit 28 and another lens, I would recommend that you NOT get a 50 and, instead, ponder a 75 or 90. I think a 28-75 or 90 combo is better than a 28-50 combo. For me, it'd be the 90 ... because I tend to like the longer reach of even my 80 and because I know I personally wouldn't want a 75mm on a M9 ... If you ponder a 90, I would not recommend the Summarit 90, but instead a used Elmarit 90 or pre-asph Cron 90 (depending on your preferences for size, speed, and rendering).

 

CDcolt, I agree with Ramosa if you are looking for a combo instead of a 3 lens setup. IMHO, 50mm would be a tad close to 28mm vs 75 or 90. And sorry to hijack your post for a side question for Ramosa (and maybe perhaps yourself too), I'm planning to buy Summilux-M 24mm 1.4 ASPH as my 2nd lens, in your experience with Elmarit 28mm (knowing it's or was THE lens made for M8), have you ever wished to go wider, say 24mm or 21mm? (I understand the frame line matter, i can live with it). Thanks.

[Jeff S]

Regarding focal lengths, the best advice is to use your preview lever to determine which, if any, alternate framings best suit your style and preferences. That's the primary issue; then lens selection follows.

 

I own 2 M8.2s, generally with the 50 Summilux asph on one and the 28 Summicron asph on the other. I have a 35 Summicron asph, and use it less frequently, sometimes when shooting with one camera. I prefer the flexibility of the 28 framing on the cropped camera, and also prefer its rendering compared to the 35.

 

But, that's just me. I don't like the 75 frame lines, and 100mm FOV doesn't often come into play. When it does, I can usually move in, or crop, using the 50 if needed. The 90 is just plain irrelevant to me on the M8.2.

 

I can't speak to alternate 50 lenses except the Summicron, which I owned for years. I greatly prefer the Summilux; so much that I sold the Summicron and have no desire to contemplate another 50 lens. But again, not everybody's cup of tea.

 

Having said this, I think FOV choice is far more important than specific lens choice, as long as speed is sufficient and it's a quality lens (as any you mention). It's all about getting the picture and, in the end, nobody, including you, will care or know which lens was used if the picture you got was a great one. Better to own something now than nothing...if you need it at all.

 

Jeff

[Zsolt Arkossy]

First of all, let me thank ALL of you the kind reply notes. It feels so great to be part of this community! Thanks again!

 

@johnloumiles: I agree with you, the 75 Summarit is a very good lens, probably the best Summarit next to 35mm. The ~100mm FOV is also great for portraits. A 28/75 combo make total sense especially if I want to keep only 2 lenses instead of three. The two main options are I guess: 28/75 or 28/50/90. (the 28/90 would be maybe too far away... BUT having the two frame lines always on the viewfinder helps the quick decision making.)

 

@trs: I agree, if I buy a 50mm lens, it will probably be the ASPH Lux.

 

@richam: Great picture! I really like the bokeh, not distracting at all at f2.5! Thanks for sharing!

 

@Sean Speed: yep, I am getting closer and closer to decide on a 50mm ASPH :-) Actually, I think after shooting with Leica for a few years I am less tempted to get a tele lens. I feel much more comfortable approaching people and getting closer to the events (following the old rule of "f8 and be there"). Therefore I kind of believe that maybe having a 28 and a 50 would be just enough for me. I could still crop the 50 much better than the 28 anyway. And as I mentioned in my OP, I print regularly on my Epson, so I know what are the limits of an A2 print. I think I could live with a 28/50 combo and crop in worst case scenario to get a tele shot if absolutely necessary. Print is the deal breaker anyway, not the screen.

 

@ramosa: hmmm... you made me thinking... should I still get a 90mm Summarit, just in case? I think I will get the 50 Lux anyway (for worst case scenario as an investment :-)

 

@!Nomad64: First of all thanks for the advice on the Planar! I fully agree with your comments. The "only" concern I might have is the lack of focus tab. The more I use the 28 Elmarit the more I enjoy the focus tab - it feels so great by feeling with the tip of my finger (without even looking at the lens) where the focus is (far left 0.7m, center 1.5m, far right infinite) I think I would terribly miss this option...

 

@Jeff S: You are spot on! That's exactly what I am doing for some time now - I am using constantly my preview lever to check the "what if" scenarios! The more I use it, the more I believe that a 50mm would be fairly utilized FOV in my work. On the other hand the 90mm seems a bit too small to justify it at this stage (obviously I don't have the 1.25 multiplier eyepiece for my 28mm, but I can imagine that it would help focusing).

 

Many thanks again guys for the advice, please let me know if you have any additional comments, it feels great to read the replies!

[Zsolt Arkossy]

@johnloumiles: I have checked your website, and I think you have some amazing pictures. Very brave, "in your face" shots - awesome! Especially the Japan series it is very powerful!

[Zsolt Arkossy]

CDcolt, I agree with Ramosa if you are looking for a combo instead of a 3 lens setup. IMHO, 50mm would be a tad close to 28mm vs 75 or 90. And sorry to hijack your post for a side question for Ramosa (and maybe perhaps yourself too), I'm planning to buy Summilux-M 24mm 1.4 ASPH as my 2nd lens, in your experience with Elmarit 28mm (knowing it's or was THE lens made for M8), have you ever wished to go wider, say 24mm or 21mm? (I understand the frame line matter, i can live with it). Thanks.

 

Yes, sometimes I wish I could go wider than 28mm on my M8.2 (~35mm). I wish I could go to 28mm in "normal" (35mm) lens terms - that means a 21mm for M8.2

 

The only issue is the additional viewfinder... I have a ThumbsUp! on the flash hot shoe and I don't want to remove it every other moment...

[ramosa]

CD: If you can afford it, a three-lens kit of 28-50-90 would be great for an M8 (or, someday, M9). For two lenses, I'd go 28-90, but many others would go 28-50 or 28-75. No right or wrong answers until you get experience with the focal lengths.

 

Sean: That provides a perfect segue to your question. On my M8, I started with a 28, added a 50, and then added an 18. For me, the 18 was way too wide, and it got virtually no use. So I sold it and got an 80, which gets plenty of use. That said, lots of shooters, including some greats (e.g., Parke and Winnograd), love wider lenses, even for street photography (e.g., 28s on FF bodies). It just depends on how you see and shoot--and it took me a few lens permutations to figure it out.

[johnloumiles]

@johnloumiles: I have checked your website, and I think you have some amazing pictures. Very brave, "in your face" shots - awesome! Especially the Japan series it is very powerful!

 

CDColt, that was very kind of you to say! That trip to Japan was really special to me so I'm glad you enjoyed the images. I just viewed your site and your wide shots are pitch perfect. I do usually get really tight on my subjects so I admire your ability to fill the entire frame with a beautifully cohesive message.

[Zsolt Arkossy]

Thank you John for the compliments!

[Zsolt Arkossy]

@ramosa: yep, you are right. Ultimately it's not at all about the lens... These are gadgets that are important only emotionally and technically, but not artistically. F1.4 or F2, it's "almost" the same for an average viewer. Actually, I think many of us don't reveal to our friends and wider family how much we spent on a 1 stop faster lens... They would say that we're crazy. And we all are :-)

 

Happy shooting!

[Zsolt Arkossy]

Just a quick question regarding the 50Lux and ND filters. What is the most versatile ND filter for shooting in daylight? Is there a variable filter where by turning it you can increase-decrease the stop levels (e.g. like a polarizer)?

[framestore]

On 90mm I think I will get a new Summarit 90. I tried it in a shop, and seems a quality lens. So I think I am OK with the plan here.

 

 

Hi,best thing I can suggest is, try both 75 & 90mm on your M8 to see whether you like the views. Also, you will be buying FF body in the future, IMHO I think 90mm is wise choice. I've bought new glasses, 28 & 75mm. but you can get a mint con'd cron at the same price of new summarit. I found one and selling at £779

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[Zsolt Arkossy]

Many thanks, Joe!

[Zsolt Arkossy]

Probably the wisest is to buy the 50 ASPH, shoot for another 2 years (as I did with the 28 Elmarit) and then see if I need anything additional lens or not. The 28/50 combo will be perfect for me I guess (even if meantime by some miracle (bonus? :-) I can buy an M9). Two lens setup (1 on camera, 1 in my pocket) it's easier to carry, interchange than 3 lenses. So I thing it's a done deal.

 

Will get in line for a black 50 ASPH.