chris_tribble Posted July 17, 2011 Share #41 Posted July 17, 2011 Advertisement (gone after registration) Andy, I follow the same practice for two reasons: • Switch on to take picture(s), switch off right away to preserve battery power. • Reduce likelihood of M9 misbehaving by using fewer of its features (until the existing problems have been solved). Best, K-H. K-H - I must admit that with the M9 I've never shot DNG+RAW, and never deliberately used C mode. I do regularly, however, use the Preview-on-shutter-release-hold mode with the histogram overlay applied to the preview itself. I find this really helpful for checking exposure at the beginning of a shoot or if I encounter major changes in light level. Otherwise the default is that preview is off. I as good as never zoom into an image during shooting. I've been keeping it simple out of habit and general approach to photography. Maybe this has helped me from possible firmware bugs... ?? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted July 17, 2011 Posted July 17, 2011 Hi chris_tribble, Take a look here After Two Years Of M9 Reliability, A Frustrating Evening. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
dwbell Posted July 17, 2011 Share #42 Posted July 17, 2011 Didn't want to clutter up the OP's thread with potentially conflicting cause / effect. Yesterday at a wedding I was snapping away as a guest, my wife was the chief witness of the bride. Shots outside, shots on the way in and down to the dark historic vaults where the ceremony was taking place. Took meter reading and took a few shots, checked the back once, realised I'd left my ISO at 200 (I so want an external ISO dial it kills me!) which is pure user error. I'd changed it on my meter, just not in camera! So 3 shots at ISO200 underexposed, then bumped it 1600 f/2 1/30th with a 35 cron and carried on. Confident in my metering I didn't check until a good 5-6 shots later. Exposure looked good, boring composition but ok, I was in my seat with my daughter by my side. However, I stepped back through the files, saw the change from underexposed ISO200 to correctly exposed ISO1600. Took a few more shots, then while listening to a sermon checked the back. Nothing. Dead. No response what-so-ever. Turned it off and on again. Nope. Took the battery out and put it back in. Finally it turned on again. Reviewed the images to find nothing from inside, only the external shots were on the card! I took a few more and they saved fine. Carried on throughout the rest of the day perfectly ok. Just lost the ceremony shots. I had a similar thing a few months ago while testing in the garden but though nothing of it. Card is SanDisk Ultra 15MB/s 16GB, the one the camera shop supplied with the M9 (trusted specialist Leica shop in the UK) I never delete files in camera. I just d'l to Lightroom and put the card straight back into the camera. I always format in camera no-where else. I don't use the card in any other appliance. Latest firmware. Full battery etc. [edit - I do have it 1 minute sleep mode] So, I guess I was reminded of a nasty experience in my family's history where the doctor said "of course there's only a 1% chance of getting this type of cancer and to everyone else that's comforting. However it means nothing if you are that 1%". I'm not saying it's as serious , of course I'm not. I'm saying it's all well and good reading people who have had reliability (luck) but when you suddenly get a glitch like this and loose shots it doesn't matter a tiny bit if they're happy - I now have less faith in my camera, which is a horrible feeling. If I was a pro I'd have a back up body I guess. Hope that might help trouble shooting somehow. PS - ISO1600 1/30th f/2.0 images came out really nicely. Lots of detail and tone. Slight horizontal banding in the black suits but only visible at 1:1. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted July 17, 2011 Share #43 Posted July 17, 2011 Thank you for the concern, but we avoid cluttering up the forum with near-identical threads, so I moved your post sans rancune Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwbell Posted July 17, 2011 Share #44 Posted July 17, 2011 Thank you for the concern, but we avoid cluttering up the forum with near-identical threads, so I moved your post sans rancune Thanks Jaapv, my only thought was that these often lack statistical accuracy as it all get's rolled together with many suggestions, battery's, sleep mode, type of card, type of data control etc and we may loose the ability to accurately identify the problem. You're the boss though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
scrubs Posted July 17, 2011 Share #45 Posted July 17, 2011 Dwbell, I'm sorry you had this experience. Whatever the percentage - it is unacceptable.. If you can't trust the camera completely, you have second thoughts about using it for anything of importance. Maybe it's gonna take one of the people at magnum to completely lose their assignment and raise hell to really get Leica's arse into gear. Leica can for sure build a good camera body. As for Electronics and firmware, it sucks. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
k-hawinkler Posted July 17, 2011 Share #46 Posted July 17, 2011 Hi Chris, Many thanks for your post. The way you operate and use the M9 is typically fine in my experience. Typically - certainly now, I do the same trouble free and really enjoy the M9. I can even zoom in after all the new images have been saved and the red LED stopped blinking. However, when I have used on occasion additional features, as described before, then unpredictably and very intermittently my M9 sometimes doesn't function correctly. Once the camera is in that mode it seems to persist for awhile. What makes this fairly hard to debug is the intermittency of the problem and the unpredictability with which an operator can engage the camera wheel and buttons in the back. Coupled with the apparently finicky behavior with which the M9 interacts with memory cards unfortunately should give Leica somewhat of a challenge to correct the problem. Best, K-H. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwbell Posted July 17, 2011 Share #47 Posted July 17, 2011 Advertisement (gone after registration) Write/delete files and reformat the SD card with the M9 ONLY and all will be well. Popular theory disproved I'm afraid. I used to think it was that simple too. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert_M Posted July 17, 2011 Share #48 Posted July 17, 2011 Write/delete files and reformat the SD card with the M9 ONLY and all will be well. Yes, dwbell's reply is spot on. This is a popular statement that has not worked for many users. dwbell, Your unfortunate experience with the 16GB Ultra card is something I have also experienced under similar use with the same card. Other threads have details. I apologize if these comments are cluttering this thread and belong over elsewhere. BTW, my card has worked fine since. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
perb Posted July 17, 2011 Share #49 Posted July 17, 2011 As for Electronics and firmware, it sucks. Actually, according to Stefan Daniel (An Interview with Leica's Stephan Daniel from ca 00:04:00 and onwards) Leica write the specification and Jenoptik make the electronics (but sensor from Kodak of course) and write the firmware, so it is in fact subcontracted. I would also like to remind people of this thread by Mark Norton: http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/leica-m8-forum/51558-blackfin-dsp-bugs.html Note how Mark writes "these are hardware bugs, not software bugs" and further "it highlights that the role of the firmware programmer is not just to program the function and algorithms required but to do so in a way which avoids the hardware bugs which are present in every M8 out there - and will be forever - by consistently using the workarounds suggested by Analog Devices". In comparison, the Maestro ASIC in the S2 doesn't seem to generate the same volume of problem reports. As Stefan Daniel explains, the M9 was intentionally developed the "traditional way", but the M10 may well prove to be a much more reliable camera based on some Maestro derivative. Regards Per Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanG Posted July 17, 2011 Share #50 Posted July 17, 2011 I'm not saying it's as serious , of course I'm not. I'm saying it's all well and good reading people who have had reliability (luck) but when you suddenly get a glitch like this and loose shots it doesn't matter a tiny bit if they're happy - I now have less faith in my camera, which is a horrible feeling. If I was a pro I'd have a back up body I guess. Backup bodies are generally a good idea, but unless you consistently shoot duplicate images on two bodies, it wouldn't have helped in this instance. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwbell Posted July 17, 2011 Share #51 Posted July 17, 2011 Yes, dwbell's reply is spot on. This is a popular statement that has not worked for many users. dwbell, Your unfortunate experience with the 16GB Ultra card is something I have also experienced under similar use with the same card. Other threads have details. I apologize if these comments are cluttering this thread and belong over elsewhere. BTW, my card has worked fine since. Robert, comments are fine in here, super mod jaapv merged it all together for that very reason. Did you fix your problems then and if so how? Do you have a link to the thread you refer to? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwbell Posted July 17, 2011 Share #52 Posted July 17, 2011 Backup bodies are generally a good idea, but unless you consistently shoot duplicate images on two bodies, it wouldn't have helped in this instance. Alan, indeed. I won't post what would have helped me, it's too inflammatory! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
scrubs Posted July 17, 2011 Share #53 Posted July 17, 2011 Actually, according to Stefan Daniel (An Interview with Leica's Stephan Daniel from ca 00:04:00 and onwards) Leica write the specification and Jenoptik make the electronics (but sensor from Kodak of course) and write the firmware, so it is in fact subcontracted. I would also like to remind people of this thread by Mark Norton: http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/leica-m8-forum/51558-blackfin-dsp-bugs.html Note how Mark writes "these are hardware bugs, not software bugs" and further "it highlights that the role of the firmware programmer is not just to program the function and algorithms required but to do so in a way which avoids the hardware bugs which are present in every M8 out there - and will be forever - by consistently using the workarounds suggested by Analog Devices". In comparison, the Maestro ASIC in the S2 doesn't seem to generate the same volume of problem reports. As Stefan Daniel explains, the M9 was intentionally developed the "traditional way", but the M10 may well prove to be a much more reliable camera based on some Maestro derivative. Regards Per Thanks for that. Very interesting. I really hope that Leica seizes working with Jenoptik before the M10, after the mess they made of the M8 & M9. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
k-hawinkler Posted July 17, 2011 Share #54 Posted July 17, 2011 scrubs, They just need to acknowledge the problem and provide us with a solution. I am sure both Leica and Jenoptik have gone and will continue to go through quite a learning experience. Why throw that away? I would say, only if they can't hack it. Best, K-H. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanG Posted July 17, 2011 Share #55 Posted July 17, 2011 Alan, indeed. I won't post what would have helped me, it's too inflammatory! Have you tried any file recovery software to see if the images can be salvaged? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert_M Posted July 17, 2011 Share #56 Posted July 17, 2011 Robert, comments are fine in here, super mod jaapv merged it all together for that very reason. Did you fix your problems then and if so how? Do you have a link to the thread you refer to? My SD card comments and analysis are mostly over in the "MERGED" thread on SD cards in this same M9 forum. Maybe the moderator is going to merge this threat with those also? My 16GB Ultra card showed the writing problems and freezing within the first 10 frames or so. Since I was at home and just doing some non-critical lens test shots at the time, I saved the frames I needed in the computer and just re-formated the card in the M9. No problems since. I should add that the card was previously formated in the M9 using overwrite mode since I wanted to see how long that took and if it made a difference (Yes, it takes a looooong time to format that way). In the end, I can't draw any definitive conclusions from this episode as to the origins of the problems. Only some clues..... RM Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnbuckley Posted July 17, 2011 Author Share #57 Posted July 17, 2011 Sorry for coming back to the party late, but I've been traveling. In response to an earlier question, I deleted about 100 photos from the card, in the camera. (I did so because they had been transferred to at least one computer.) I did so because 16G cards are expensive and I don't like shooting and retiring them. Lesson learned. Total lessons learned here: 1) Use smaller cards (1-4G) and retire them when filled. 2) Make sure, on an evening like this, to have a battery more than halfway charged. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
steelduck Posted July 17, 2011 Share #58 Posted July 17, 2011 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iVaNXbN12KI Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted July 18, 2011 Share #59 Posted July 18, 2011 My SD card comments and analysis are mostly over in the "MERGED" thread on SD cards in this same M9 forum. Maybe the moderator is going to merge this threat with those also? RM Not really - the threads are too long and convoluted - it would create a posting chaos. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lanetomlane Posted July 18, 2011 Share #60 Posted July 18, 2011 Still, I would suggest that a camera that needs an occasional battery out reset is NOT functioning without a glitch. A well-running M9 is not supposed to do that. I've never had to remove the battery to reset either my M8 or M9. ______________________ Regards, Tom Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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