Bateleur Posted July 12, 2011 Share #21 Posted July 12, 2011 Advertisement (gone after registration) Lots of good advise here. I too have purchased from both Schouten Select and Collect Camera. I would not hesitate to recommend them both although Schouten's prices on average are dearer than those of Collect. To get an idea of the offering this is the selection of M camera's at Collect see the following link. http://www.collectcamera.com/products/rubriek_list.php?ocat_ID=1⟨=eng Regards Charles Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted July 12, 2011 Posted July 12, 2011 Hi Bateleur, Take a look here Buying an M6. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Dutch Posted July 12, 2011 Author Share #22 Posted July 12, 2011 Thanks for the link. I see Schouten Select has some good M6's too. there is the option of wet printing and getting results which no amount of photoshopping can reproduce. That's what I like about film, the hands-on approach that produces unique results. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon_Leica_Lee Posted July 12, 2011 Share #23 Posted July 12, 2011 Thanks a lot for the great advice, really useful! Jono, did you have the M6 serviced after you found out? (I wonder what the costs are to have that done.) I understand what you mean, and it might be a good reason for me to buy from a dealer who is aware of these issues and services the camera before putting it up for sale. I have considered the M4-P and M3 (although not yet the M2) and prefer to have an in-camera meter. The M6 also seems to hit the spot for me in terms of affordability, nostalgia, and modern convenience. The MP would be even better, but that one is simply too expensive. Dutch, I originally thought of sending it to the US (from Australia) for a CLA but decided it was not necessary as the camera was in otherwise near perfect condition (except for the meter and sticky framelines). Apparently, this is a common issue for cameras which haven't been used for a while. I sent it to the a local Leica technician to service the meter and it cost me A$145 including shipping. I didn't buy from a dealer though, just from a photographer who listed it in the local classifieds. Not so easy to find a dealer who sells second-hand Leica's (at least not in Sydney). One noticeable issue with the Leica M6 is viewfinder flaring. With certain viewing angles, the viewfinder remains clear but the focusing patch "whites out", which makes it difficult to focus. Not a major issue for me but it is a well-reported issue with the original M6. Otherwise, the M6 is absolutely solid and weighs a tonne. I moved from a Canon 5DII and felt I was getting too lazy with my photography so decided to move back to manual photography by getting a Leica rangefinder (and here starts my addiction!). I started off with a Voigtlander 35mm 1.4SC lens as I didn't want to invest too much money to start off. My next lens will be a 50mm Summicron and that's it! The in-camera meter is handy but I guess a true "purist" would not have an in-camera meter. I also bought a Sekonic L-208 twinmate light meter which has been handy when learning about exposure control, the 'zone system', light, etc. Unless you buy from a reputable dealer or unless you really know Leica cameras and know what you are looking for, the reality is that the older the camera, the more likely issues will pop up. (Please correct me if you think otherwise!). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dutch Posted July 12, 2011 Author Share #24 Posted July 12, 2011 Thanks for sharing your experiences. I actually feel "lazy" too when I'm shooting my Canon 7D. There just isn't any motivation to "work", even worse with the zoom lens. I'm also considering the Voigtlander 35/1.4 a good option for a first lens. I heard it's really good considering its price. The other could be the Zeiss 50 f/2, or else a second hand Leica if I can find one. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xmas Posted July 12, 2011 Share #25 Posted July 12, 2011 Hi The 2nd hand lens market has 'taken off' in the last three years. In addition to Cosina Voightlander(CV), Zeiss M, and Leica M lenses, there are LTM lenses (which with adapters can be used native on M bodies, from Canon (50-70ies), CV, Nikon, Konica, etc... Most of my friends seem to have a 40mm CV single coated f/1.4, I prefer the Canon f/2 35mm in LTM(also single coated). The SC lenses pastel colors and fill in shadows reducing the effective contrast range. Noel Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archiver Posted July 13, 2011 Share #26 Posted July 13, 2011 The definition of 'work' as it pertains to shooting with a M vs DSLR is interesting. I 'work' darn hard when I shoot with my 5D Mark II, and I have relied on many of the automated processes like focus and exposure so I can concentrate on composition and timing. Adding manual exposure and a lack of preview to the mix almost seems like a step backwards to me. It's interesting to see where people draw the line and define photography for themselves. For some it is the full set of activities including manual exposure, manual focus, estimation of framing (rangefinder VF vs TTL VF) and more. On the other end of the spectrum is the person who just points an automated camera and hopes for the best. Most of us fall somewhere between, from where we stand, one side is 'more work' and the other is not. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dutch Posted July 13, 2011 Author Share #27 Posted July 13, 2011 Advertisement (gone after registration) Thanks for the tip Xmas, I will check those out. Archiver, It is a very interesting discussion, isn't it? When shooting the 7D I love the speed, the fact that with the right settings and minimal effort the camera will get excellent exposures, and even more, that while shooting raw I know I have plenty of room to adjust the exposure afterwards. That too me is what digital is about. (Of course it's very personal.) The thing that draws me to Leica, and which is even stronger with a film Leica, is exactly these things like taking control (and responsibility) of focussing, exposure, type of film, everything that decides what the picture will end up looking like. That is why I want to have a Leica rangefinder. The 7D doesn't inspire me to take control (although I could), I think (expect) a film Leica will do just that. Of course part of it is also my personality. I am a very "classical" person, a thinker (philosopher) who should probably have been born in the Victorian era. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NZDavid Posted July 13, 2011 Share #28 Posted July 13, 2011 I think so many modern digital cameras want to turn you into a computer programmer. There are so many modes and settings, and a seemingly endless combination of them, all controlled via a menu, LCD, and tiny buttons which are all too easy to nudge by mistake. There's a lot to be said for simplicity. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xmas Posted July 13, 2011 Share #29 Posted July 13, 2011 Hi After you get your cam and lens and run a few films through it, you may want to get a changing bag, dev tank, and soup your own, maybe free, join camera club, and scronge. Then chepo scanner, 2nd hand from Mr Toad. Then enlarger, normally free from some one going to digital. Then bulk loader and reel of Kodak 5222, the 5222 reel (or other bulk) reduces the cost per film, and the 5222 is a 'old style film' reshoot scenes from cone noir like 'Le jour se leve'. The early M6 will take the Leica reloadable cassettes IXMOO, later need a baseplate lock part swap,a tecco will do... So your other task is accepting any free gifts... Noel Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
earleygallery Posted July 13, 2011 Share #30 Posted July 13, 2011 The thing that draws me to Leica, and which is even stronger with a film Leica, is exactly these things like taking control (and responsibility) of focussing, exposure, type of film, everything that decides what the picture will end up looking like. That is why I want to have a Leica rangefinder. The 7D doesn't inspire me to take control (although I could), I think (expect) a film Leica will do just that. A big difference with shooting film - which you've touched upon - is you make your choice of film stock, and ultimately how your images will look, when you load the camera. You're then in a mindset for the next 36 shots, B&W, high speed/grain, transparency etc. Of course a nice benefit of shooting digital is that you can change all of that from shot to shot, but it's as much of a hindrance as it is a benefit. Creatively, it's good to have to work within some limitations. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulus Posted July 13, 2011 Share #31 Posted July 13, 2011 I've bought from Schouten-Select and Collect Camera in NL - both highly recommended. I very much doubt you would get a faulty camera from either of these dealers. Collect is also very fair on price. Otherwise we're lucky enough in Europe to be tightly surrounded by excellent dealers in many countries: I've also bought from Leicashop in Vienna and NewOldCamera in Milan, and the cameras and lenses have usually been better than described. Good luck finding the right M6 for you! Collect Camera is a great dealer. Once I bought a 4,0/135mm there. I happened to be a special one, which he sold me for a regular price. I told him so and he bought it back for a very nice price. We both had our profit. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dutch Posted July 14, 2011 Author Share #32 Posted July 14, 2011 Thanks again all. I think so many modern digital cameras want to turn you into a computer programmer. There are so many modes and settings, and a seemingly endless combination of them, all controlled via a menu, LCD, and tiny buttons which are all too easy to nudge by mistake. There's a lot to be said for simplicity. I couldn't agree more, and really don't understand why there are so few simple cameras available. Creatively, it's good to have to work within some limitations. I believe the designer of the titanium M9 said the same thing, and I wholeheartedly agree. By having some limitations within which to work, a creative process is stimulated rather than restricted. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill Posted July 14, 2011 Share #33 Posted July 14, 2011 ffordes? Yeh right. I can highly recommend them for sending parcels to the wrong person, who kindly took it upon themselves to sort out their mistake. Not so much as a word of apology from "the Scottish dealer"... Never again. Regards, Bill Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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