-ph- Posted June 17, 2011 Share #41 Posted June 17, 2011 Advertisement (gone after registration) If I remember correctly, the M9 ships with standby mode switched off. So unless you switched it on, it might never go to standby and hence drain the battery. I have not observed significant battery drain in standby - sometimes I forget to switch it off entirely. When I start lifting my M9 to the eye, I automatically tip the shutter - by the time the camera reaches my eye (not even started to focus yet) it usually is fully awake and ready to shoot. Peter Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted June 17, 2011 Posted June 17, 2011 Hi -ph-, Take a look here M9 in the Field.. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
otto.f Posted June 17, 2011 Share #42 Posted June 17, 2011 1 Hmm, strange. I can't replicate it. It takes the shot immediately. That's actually a big improvement over the previous version. 2 However if I directly after the first shot turn it off and then turn it on and press the shutter - while it's still writing to the SD card - then it locks up for 2-3 seconds. Same experience here and even better. Apart from the fact that it would be a strange procedure to first focus, then put the camera on and then shoot and that it is much more intuitive to first put the camera on, then focus and then shoot, which would not even make a delay perceptible, I can't even replicate the second procedure described by denoir. Apart from the fact that I would not turn the camera off when I anticipate the next shot - as a professional - and that I would only do that if I'd have an energysaving-obsession, I can in any case shoot immediately after turning the camera on. No delay whatsoever ever. Don't really understand how such a problem could have been solved by firmware update either. My number: 384... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank aus B Posted June 17, 2011 Share #43 Posted June 17, 2011 Hi Charles, did you really shoot JPEGs?? As a pro audio engineer I would never record anything in MP3. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
adan Posted June 17, 2011 Share #44 Posted June 17, 2011 First, I'll just mention that for the most part, Leicas were always designed as "amateur" cameras. In 1925 or 1954, MOST photojournalists used 4x5s - or Rolleis, if their editors allowed them to use a "small" format. (4x5s were preferable for about the same reason Charles O. needs reliable jpegs. Speed. A 4x5 neg could be contract-printed through a half-tone screen to make a 3-column horizontal or 2-column vertical newspaper printing plate. No need for post-processing (a.k.a. making prints in the darkroom)). Eventually, most photojournalists adopted the Leica and other 35mm cameras - but that process also involved them adapting themselves to the limits of the smaller film, and RFs in particular. Learning to frame outside the lines for long shots, and inside the lines for closeups. Allowing extra time on deadline to make enlargements. Getting "close enough" - in Robert Capa's phrase - to make up for the lack of long lenses. That has always been a two-way street. I'm a photojournalist, and former designer for the late Rocky Mountain News (Photo Pulitzers 1999, 2002, 2005) so I appreciate that on deadline, one needs good jpeg capability, which means good auto-WB as well. Personally, I have the luxury of time (and a lack of incoming fire) to use raw, but some pretty serious work gets done with jpegs. Just not M9 jpegs. I've learned to work around most of the M8/M9s' drawbacks (f/1.4 does a lot to overcome the ISO limits), but I do think Leica could put a little more thought into an M9P, where the "P" stands for Professional and not just Perfection (or perhaps that should be "Precious". ) Accesory (thus optional) battery pack (since it is the M9 size that limits the milliamps available), bigger/faster buffer and processor, serious thought to jpeg and auto-WB quality (ask Panasonic for some help if Jenoptik can't figure it out), M8-grade (at least) LCD. Three silly little O-rings (shutter button, shutter dial, around the bottom plate joint) would take care of weather-proofing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted June 17, 2011 Share #45 Posted June 17, 2011 Here is Jaap again. Well allright, answer this: is the M9 fast? Is the buffer fast? Is the rear screen very good? The white balance stable? The dynamic range very good? The high ISO performance as good as, let's say the D3? Things that can be asked concerning the price of the camera, I should say. Don't trouble yourself. All answers are: no. Therefore Charles is right. And one does not have to experience it in Afgh. For any photojournalist the M9 is in a lot of cases a bad tool.How would you know? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest raoul1 Posted June 17, 2011 Share #46 Posted June 17, 2011 so I appreciate that on deadline, one needs good jpeg capability, which means good auto-WB as well. Personally, I have the luxury of time (and a lack of incoming fire) to use raw, but some pretty serious work gets done with jpegs. Just not M9 jpegs. I've learned to work around most of the M8/M9s' drawbacks (f/1.4 does a lot to overcome the ISO limits), . I work among a lot of photojournalists and everyone is using raw. Always. As well as I do. But even in raw the white balance is not stable. It really never is. f/1.4 does indeed overcome ISO limits, but one needs dof a lot of the times. I do thank you for the rest of your comments. P for professional, that would be the day. Let's hope they ( Leica) won't read too much quotes from the eh..so called experts here. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest raoul1 Posted June 17, 2011 Share #47 Posted June 17, 2011 Advertisement (gone after registration) How would you know? All my colleagues ( quite a lot ) don't want to work with it. Specially after trying it. You did'nt take the edge of the no of my questions. So that proves it already. Photojournalists simply need those things. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
otto.f Posted June 17, 2011 Share #48 Posted June 17, 2011 In any setting other than AWB the white balance of M8-M9 is stable. M8, M8.2 and M9 are DNG cameras. Buy a X1 or a X100 if you want to shoot jpeg with AWB, perfect enough for Newsweek or Stern. White balance is a choice, depending on the intentions and pre-visualizations of the photographer/artist. Why is it that Kodak and Fuji made 5 or 6 different slide films in the 'old' days, not because they were trying to come closer to reality (whatever that may be), but because of the effect the photographer wanted to attain, the mood they wanted to convey. Strictly speaking AWB is not in line with M-philosophy, which is: the photographer decides and not the (ICT-professionals producing) the camera. That AWB on a M8 or M9 is just a compromise, like the Snapshot option, because you sometimes need or want it quick and dirty because you don't have a point and shoot at hand. In about 20% of my work I always change the white balance, searching for the mood I wanted to convey when I shot the scene. AWB is, after all, just a model of reality, invented by ICT professionals that created the firmware. Do you want to follow that? Is that it, photography as a reproduction of 'reality'? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ommanney Posted June 17, 2011 Author Share #49 Posted June 17, 2011 It has been very interesting to read all the posts - a discussion involving lots of viewpoints that is the way a forum like this should be don't you think! Couple of details - Yes I shoot raw (stopped shooting jpegs as the Apples got better), post production done using CS5's raw converter (edited in Photo Mechanic). Best, Charles Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
otto.f Posted June 17, 2011 Share #50 Posted June 17, 2011 It has been very interesting to read all the posts - a discussion involving lots of viewpoints that is the way a forum like this should be don't you think! Couple of details - Yes I shoot raw (stopped shooting jpegs as the Apples got better), post production done using CS5's raw converter (edited in Photo Mechanic). Best, Charles CS5 is indeed not optimal for digital M. If you want it fast take LR3, if you what it thorough take C1 Pro Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted June 17, 2011 Share #51 Posted June 17, 2011 All my colleagues ( quite a lot ) don't want to work with it. Specially after trying it. You did'nt take the edge of the no of my questions. So that proves it already. Photojournalists simply need those things. Colleague business consultants? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tappan Posted June 17, 2011 Share #52 Posted June 17, 2011 I am a photojournalist. Please see some of my work at this link pictureboston.. I am new to Leica. I have an M9 and an 18mm, 24mm, 35mm, 50mm and 90mm. My M9 is perfect for portraiture, street features, landscapes, weather (especially lightning!) and that is when I use my M9 for my work as a newspaper photographer. I do not have the proper experience or training YET to have the courage to use the M9 for "breaking or hard" news or, of course, sports. I just recently started shooting more in the raw mode with my Canon EOS 1d mark 11n and Mark 111. I shoot mostly raw with the M9. I love my M9 and look forward to the day when I might have some more comfort and experience with the M9. I don't want my M9 to do all the automated things that my EOS stuff does. I got the M9 to "slow down" and appreciate photography more. Best, Mark Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Ricard Posted June 17, 2011 Share #53 Posted June 17, 2011 I suspect your issue here isn't really with the Leica being so "bad" but rather the Nikons and Canons being so "good". For example when you say the framing is inaccurate, that's an example of where you're just spoiled by the "better" Nikon/Canon body. I'm sure the Leica has always been inaccurate in that department, but it wasn't noticeable when you got your film back 2 weeks after composing the images. If you want to use the Leica, you have to accept the fact that the Nikons and Canons are superior to the M9 in every measurable way. For me its like comparing a car to a motorcycle. The car does everything better. But if, like me, you enjoy shooting with the M9 there are workarounds you can do to make it useable in a variety of situations. If the process of doing so is fun for you, as it is for me, then by all means use the Leica professionally. However, for those times when you need to just get the job done, you may need to reach for your Nikon or Canon. The M9 has quickly become my favorite camera and I use it every chance I get both professionally and personally. When I do pick up my Nikon I'm amazed at how much better it is in every way and how easy it is to nail a shot with it. I totally understand how the OP came to write list of complaints and I think there is validity in every one of them. (Why does spell check sometimes indicate that Leica is spelled wrong?) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
otto.f Posted June 17, 2011 Share #54 Posted June 17, 2011 I suspect your issue here isn't really with the Leica being so "bad" but rather the Nikons and Canons being so "good". For example when you say the framing is inaccurate, that's an example of where you're just spoiled by the "better" Nikon/Canon body. I'm sure the Leica has always been inaccurate in that department, but it wasn't noticeable when you got your film back 2 weeks after composing the images. If you want to use the Leica, you have to accept the fact that the Nikons and Canons are superior to the M9 in every measurable way. For me its like comparing a car to a motorcycle. The car does everything better. But if, like me, you enjoy shooting with the M9 there are workarounds you can do to make it useable in a variety of situations. If the process of doing so is fun for you, as it is for me, then by all means use the Leica professionally. However, for those times when you need to just get the job done, you may need to reach for your Nikon or Canon. The M9 has quickly become my favorite camera and I use it every chance I get both professionally and personally. When I do pick up my Nikon I'm amazed at how much better it is in every way and how easy it is to nail a shot with it. I totally understand how the OP came to write list of complaints and I think there is validity in every one of them. (Why does spell check sometimes indicate that Leica is spelled wrong?) It's just the smallest FF hand-made camera there is, that's all and that's where the price mainly comes from. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpattison Posted June 17, 2011 Share #55 Posted June 17, 2011 OK, you two take this offline! You are OT. John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff S Posted June 17, 2011 Share #56 Posted June 17, 2011 For me its like comparing a car to a motorcycle. The car does everything better. Acceleration? Space and ease to park? Gas mileage? Open air thrill? And so on. You're obviously not a biker. Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
01af Posted June 17, 2011 Share #57 Posted June 17, 2011 Well alright, answer this: is the M9 fast? Depends on which criterion you are looking at. Is the buffer fast? No. Is the rear screen very good? No. The white balance stable? Yes. The dynamic range very good? Yes. The high ISO performance as good as, let's say the Nikon D3? No. All answers are: no. No. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff S Posted June 17, 2011 Share #58 Posted June 17, 2011 I like these questions. Makes my M8.2 a better pro camera than the M9...better rear screen, faster buffer. Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sblitz Posted June 17, 2011 Share #59 Posted June 17, 2011 If I remember correctly, Michael Kamber, photographer with the NYT, used and wrote about using the m9 in Afghanistan. Also, didn't a photographer win some award using her iphone and hipstamatic to take photos of soldiers in Afghanistan? I leave to others to take issue with your comments, and given that my experiences with the camera in non combat non professional settings (i suspect weddings can be emotional combat of a sort) are great and limitations with the m9 are for me, trivial given the relative size and ability to be in control of the photo in comparison to a ff dslr. Still, the experience of these other two photographers suggests that a) not everyone has the same take on the camera in the same situation and it doesn't take a great camera to take a great picture. I understand the value of an all auto superfast camera in today's world, especially in a combat zone shooting under deadline. How many photos did Capa miss at Normandy having to focus, shoot, wind, and change film after 36 odd exposures -- with no through the lens meter to make the shot accurate (spot, center weight, average?). Like I said in an earlier post, in your situation I would probably want a canon or nikon to make my life easier. The m9 is not a perfect camera, is has its faults, but it is perfect for me -- until someone starts shooting. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwilliamsphotography Posted June 18, 2011 Share #60 Posted June 18, 2011 Very sorry to hear of your experiences. I would communicate directly with Leica management in Germany. Some of us here can offer suggestions to help out as opposed to bashing or praising. While I like my M9, and shoot with it professionally, I don't think it is anywhere near perfect ... but I have that opinion of every digital camera made today. However, I have no issues with getting the M9 images I want, when I want. I haven't yet lost a single image due to the camera when using my two M9s. I use all sorts of San Disk cards, mostly 16 gig Extreme III, but they were purchased from a very reliable Sandisk re-seller because the counterfeit issue has become an epidemic. None of mine have failed on me ... but I learned long ago from a recovery service that you should never max any card out ... pull it before it is full. The M9 battery life has not been good or bad ... just adequate to my tasks. The initial charge/recharge instructions are valid, but that is true for any modern Lithium battery to get the most life out of it and longest use. I also never let the battery run to zero while shooting. That is a bad idea with any digital camera. Lithiums work until they suddenly don't, and if they stop in the middle of writing a file it can corrupt the card. The M9 batteries are pretty small and are powering a CCD, so they don't last as long as larger batteries powering a CMOS sensor. Framing is no different from the M6 and M7s I used before the M9. WB ... I never use auto WB in any camera I use. I set for the conditions and save various presets to recall quickly. I've owned and used all the Canons up to the 1DsMKIII, and most Nikons up to the D3X, and none of them are all that great at Auto WB unless it's nice out. Indoors I set the M9 using Manual WB which takes a second and rarely changes afterwards. I do the same with my 35mm DSLRs. I post process M9 DNGs in LightRoom 3 ONLY ... CS5 is a snail-slow interface IMO, and when I'm plowing through 1,000 shots a day LR makes a huge difference. Then you can batch output them any way you want in any color space you want, even directly to a site. While not engaged in war coverage, the decisive moments are just as important to my clients as international news is to others. THAT SAID, were I shooting the type of work you do, I'd simply not use anything but a nail-pounding tough, weather sealed, lightening fast Nikon D3s with dual card slots to hedge my bets ... and test it for a month of heavy duty un-critical work before trusting it. ... and even then have something else to back it up. Stuff can happen to any camera ... two pro shooters I know had the mirror fall out of their Canon 5Ds at the most inopportune moment. I stupidly failed to throughly test a Canon 1DMKIII before a job and 80% of the continuous focus action shots were out of focus ... which was then reported as a major error on Canon's part and the cameras had to be recalled. I had a Nikon D2X eat a card ... all the lights on the camera started blinking when I turned it on and wiped the card clean. That is just a few of my fun episodes with digital cameras. Seriously, contact Leica Management ... they need to hear from more of their customers with needs like yours. -Marc Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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