norm_snyder Posted May 26, 2011 Share #1 Posted May 26, 2011 Advertisement (gone after registration) Well, the LCD cover fell off, and I got tired of looking at gaffer tape, so off to NJ for my M8. Replacement cost was stunning, given that it seems to be a very simple repair. Initially I was told the cost would be between $400-900 US! While communication from service has been terrific, I thought I'd share my thoughts, as forwarded by e-mail to Dave Elwell: "Dear Mr. Elwell, I am the owner of M8 no,. 3101xxx, which is, itself, a factory replacement for 3100xxx [i was an early adopter, and had some of the issues that occurred in some of the first batch of cameras]. I am also the owner of an M9, no. 383xxxx, and have more than 35 years experience using Leica rangefinder cameras. While my M8 is again in for service, I had wanted to simply communicate my concerns, as it has been a bit frustrating at times, although it has served me well, overall. The shutter was updated, it did need some other service, and worked well until the LCD cover simply fell out. No bumping, drops, trauma--simply detached itself from the camera. I was shocked to learn that the repair cost would be $650- ! While I appreciate the fact that the camera is being "gone over" and should come back in fine working order, and the service department has been exceptional in their communication [kudos to Carmen Vargas, who has been great!], it is simply breathtaking that such a simple failure [apparently not too uncommon, judging by Leica Forum] will cost this much. I am also concerned that this may bode poorly for what I can expect from the M9. I had a couple of questions, with which I hope you can help: Does this repair cost give me a warranty extension, as do some of the updates? Is there a reason that the body covering needs to be replaced, and at my cost? Is there a reason the entire back assembly is needing to be replaced, when the problem seems to be failure of some UV cured adhesive on the LCD covering? I appreciate your kind attention, and look forward to hearing from you, at your convenience" Anybody else have any experience with this repair? Do they really replace the entire unit? Am I going to lose my black dot, too? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted May 26, 2011 Posted May 26, 2011 Hi norm_snyder, Take a look here Some concerns about service/cost I felt I would share. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
garygsandhu Posted May 26, 2011 Share #2 Posted May 26, 2011 $650 buys a lot of gaffe'rs tape. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
platel Posted May 26, 2011 Share #3 Posted May 26, 2011 I am also concerned about the same thing. My M8 has to go all the way to Solms for service for 'sticky framelines'. I have no idea what the costs will be, they couldn't give me an indication before actually seeing the camera. In my opinion these kind of problems are not due to improper usage, but due to some faulty design or flawed manufacturing. The M8 isn't the youngest anymore, but I wouldn't expect any camera to fail after 9000 exposures. I am thinking about buying an M9, but when I read about the large amount of problems and service time and costs, It really makes me think twice. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted May 26, 2011 Share #4 Posted May 26, 2011 Bram, why send it to Solms? Zoetermeer is far enough...This is basic RF repair or even maintenance stuff. Normally sticky framelines are caused by some dust in the mechanism. With an earlier film M (no electronic connections to consider) I would simply remove the top cover, give the RF/VF a dollop of compressed air and put it together again. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ho_co Posted May 26, 2011 Share #5 Posted May 26, 2011 Norm-- As I understand it, the LCD and cover are a single unit; so the camera has to be disassembled almost completely to get to the LCD. And that requires destruction of the body covering. It may be that the LCD and backplate are received by Leica as a single unit. See Mark Norton's "Anatomy of the Leica M8" thread for an idea of what is involved. Have you thought about upgrading to the sapphire glass since you're having the cover replaced? All billed repairs come with a one-year warranty on the whole camera. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff S Posted May 26, 2011 Share #6 Posted May 26, 2011 Am I going to lose my black dot, too? You should specifically request that they return it intact; otherwise it's likely gone. Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeicaMSeattle Posted May 26, 2011 Share #7 Posted May 26, 2011 Advertisement (gone after registration) My M8 with black dot went into NJ and came back with replacement sensor and the black dot that I had installed. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted May 26, 2011 Share #8 Posted May 26, 2011 You should specifically request that they return it intact; otherwise it's likely gone. Jeff Solms always spared my black dots without me asking. But they always compensated my Cameraleather coverings too, by offering a-la-carte options for free if they had to destroy them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
norm_snyder Posted May 27, 2011 Author Share #9 Posted May 27, 2011 Well, it appears that the LCD cover, as Howard indicated [thanks, for that] is part of a whole assembly, which has to be replaced as a whole, and that they have inspected a number of other areas. On the other hand, it appears that only the items repaired are under extended warranty, as suggested in Dave Elwell's e-mail. I will say that communication continues to be great. Here's his [rapid] answer to my e-mails: "The majority of the cost of this service is labor, it take 4-5 hours to dis-assemble, adjust, re-assemble, test the overall performance and make final adjustments. The body covering cannot be successfully re-used. There is no charge for it but it needs to be listed on the repair so when I run restocking inventory reports I can see what is needed. It is unfortunate but the window is not available as a separate part, it is only available as part of the rear cover. Our repair work has a 1 year warranty on parts & labor so you will receive that. I hope this is helpful to you." Note that the "repair work has a 1 year warranty...", not that there is a warranty of 1 year following such a repair. [A good many} years ago I owned an Alfa GTA Junior with Morelli dual ignition. It was wonderful, when it ran, I cursed it when it didn't [farily often]. Finally sold it. Also, in the 80's I used Plaubel Makina 67 and 670 folding csmeras, which also required regular repair. Once, after Nippon Photo Repair in NYC fixed one, the repairman said "This one's really running great. You should sell it." I wonder if this would be good advice when the M8 comes back. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
norm_snyder Posted May 27, 2011 Author Share #10 Posted May 27, 2011 Howard-- Thanks for the suggestion, but the sapphire cover is set up so that it will still be full price, even if I have to replace the existing "stock" cover. Given the valuate of this body, and the replacement cost, it hardly seems worth it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ho_co Posted May 27, 2011 Share #11 Posted May 27, 2011 Boy, they like their blood, don't they, Norm? Why don't you respond to Dave and ask whether the 1-year warranty covers the whole camera, or just the specific work done? His response is open to either view. I still think it covers everything--sensor, rangefinder, everything. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ho_co Posted May 27, 2011 Share #12 Posted May 27, 2011 ... the repairman said "This one's really running great. You should sell it." ... That's the best line I've heard in a long time! My M8 still has a quirk or two, but I'm happy with it. I'll probably sell the D200 before I do the M8! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hx911 Posted May 27, 2011 Share #13 Posted May 27, 2011 shocked to read the costs involved - especially as we have heard stories in the past of the LCD cover coming off. I was thinking the dealer was just 'messing with me' when I traded my M8 and he pointed out a miniscule scratch in the lcd cover (I never noticed) and stated it is a Au$ 900 repair. Makes me want to get Saphire glass cover for my new M9 - which I hope arrives soon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
norm_snyder Posted May 27, 2011 Author Share #14 Posted May 27, 2011 Yea, the M8 has been a continued joy to shoot with, just as the Alfa was a hoot to drive, when I wasn't screaming at the mechanic [He only spoke Italian, and me only American English, so we communicated by shouting and waving our arms.] I think I will send an e-mail to Dave Elwell re: the warranty. Meantime, I miss the Plaubel, and nearly bought another recently, until I reminded myself that it was in the shop half the time...This is getting to be the problem with the M8, though not the M9...so far... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
menos I M6 Posted May 27, 2011 Share #15 Posted May 27, 2011 Norm, it sounds, like one better takes care, not to loose off coming LCD covers and does a self repair. Wasn't the easily scratched M9 LCD cover once argumented as being a better solution for heavy users, as replacement in case of damage is at a far lesser cost than replacing an expensive sapphire crystal cover? I am astonished, that on a Leica the LCD cover is no separate part, to be sourced and exchanged for repair purposes. This is not appropriate for a German designed product. "Sorry Sir, we cannot repair your left headlight - it is only available as a repair unit with the hood, left front fender and front bumper, which will run you 6.000,- EUR as of the very extensive labor involved to fix your lightbulb." ;-) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ho_co Posted May 27, 2011 Share #16 Posted May 27, 2011 ..."Sorry Sir, we cannot repair your left headlight - it is only available as a repair unit with the hood, left front fender and front bumper, which will run you 6.000,- EUR as of the very extensive labor involved to fix your lightbulb." ;-) "... But the repainting to match the rest of the car is no charge." Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
norm_snyder Posted May 27, 2011 Author Share #17 Posted May 27, 2011 I did get a quick response from Dave Elwell, who reassured me that the repair costs would include extending the warranty on the entire camera for one year, as Howard suggested. I'm glad I checked. Now I feel so much better... "Sorry, but these headlights only come in pairs, so we have to replace both of them at the same time, even if only one is broken...and we noticed that there is a spot of rust on the back bumper, so we replaced that, too." It seems like lots of "pro" cameras could easily be designed with user replaceable, or at least more modular LCD covers. The scratch covers [i have a Giotto cover on my M9] don't really prevent the bloody thing from falling out, and it would be logical to design the assembly so that it would be possible to pop out a scratched cover, blow off a little dust, and pop in a replacement. They indicate that this is a 5 or 6 hour operation! And yes, I'll keep the M8 as my M9 back up [which is how it was being used] when it gets back. Thanks to everyone for the support... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill Posted May 27, 2011 Share #18 Posted May 27, 2011 Have you tried to buy a reversing sensor for a Range Rover? That's a whole new back bumper, Sir. Ditto a simple plastic cover plate measuring 2"x 2" on the armrest - that's a whole new armrest, Sir. Not picking on Tata, but this is increasingly common. You can't buy bits of a sub-assembly on their own. Pain in the arse, but that's the way the world is. Regards, Bill Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
platel Posted May 27, 2011 Share #19 Posted May 27, 2011 Bram, why send it to Solms? Zoetermeer is far enough...This is basic RF repair or even maintenance stuff. Normally sticky framelines are caused by some dust in the mechanism. With an earlier film M (no electronic connections to consider) I would simply remove the top cover, give the RF/VF a dollop of compressed air and put it together again. Hi Jaap, I'm sending the camera to CamTech in Holland, but they are sending it on to Solms. They didn't want to give an estimate as to what it would cost. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted May 28, 2011 Share #20 Posted May 28, 2011 Yes - but they that will keep it on the road for ages.... I have never used that route. Either I send it to Will van Manen for anything he can deal with ( and that is a lot!) or I send it to Solms directly. Saves weeks....The problem with Camtech is that they are a non-RF-specialized general repair facility, so there is very little they can handle when confronted with a Leica M. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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