CS Lenses

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Hello Everyone,

 

Has anyone in the world received a CS lens for the S2?

 

I am wondering when Leica expects to ship this lens.

 

I would like the 70mm and 120mm in CS.

 

Also, are they still making the non CS version? I just looked at the S2 Website and they no longer list the non CS version as a choice.

 

LEICA Camera AG - Aktuell

 

Love your feedback.

[dfarkas]

CS lenses have not started shipping yet. They are expected to start this Spring (which is almost here).

 

Even when the CS lenses start shipping, both the CS and the non-CS versions will be available. Not everyone needs the 1/500th of a sec sync speed of the CS lenses. For instance landscape photographers will have no need for this, but a fashion photographer would.

 

David

[wattsy]

For instance landscape photographers will have no need for this

 

You'd think not but wait until someone suggests that they get that tinsy bit extra sharpness using the leaf lenses instead of the standard lenses and the shutter in the camera.

[dfarkas]

You'd think not but wait until someone suggests that they get that tinsy bit extra sharpness using the leaf lenses instead of the standard lenses and the shutter in the camera.

 

Ian, I doubt this will be the case. Because the S2 has a focal plane shutter, when using CS lenses both the leaf shutter in the lens and the focal plane shutter in the body have to fire in sequence. This would negate any advantage in lower vibration. As it is now, for ultimate sharpness on a tripod I routinely just use a 2 sec self-timer which pre-locks the mirror at the start of the countdown. There is no vibration even when using the S2 on the tiny Leica tabletop tripod, let alone my Gitzo 3-series carbon tripod. The S2's mirror and shutter dampening are class leading in this respect.

 

David

[wattsy]

I was of course partly joking but I didn't know that the shutter inside the body was still 'active' when a CS lens is attached and fired. What about if you engage mirror lock with a CS lens attached - is there a theoretical advantage to be gained that way?

[plevyadophy]

CS lenses have not started shipping yet. They are expected to start this Spring (which is almost here).

 

Even when the CS lenses start shipping, both the CS and the non-CS versions will be available. Not everyone needs the 1/500th of a sec sync speed of the CS lenses. For instance landscape photographers will have no need for this, but a fashion photographer would.

 

David

 

Eh? Really?

 

So how's this work then? What's the sequence of shutter opening and closing between the two shutters when a CS lens is engaged?

 

And what happens when shutter speeds exceed 1/500?

[dfarkas]

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Eh? Really?

 

So how's this work then? What's the sequence of shutter opening and closing between the two shutters when a CS lens is engaged?

 

And what happens when shutter speeds exceed 1/500?

 

Logic would dictate that the mirror would need to be raised and the focal plane shutter (FPS) opened before the central shutter (CS) would fire. Then after the CS exposure, the FPS would close and the mirror would return to its lowered position.

 

For speeds higher than 1/500th, the camera automatically switches over to the FPS and doesn't use the CS, even if the selector switch is set to CS. In FPS mode, the CS is not used at any shutter speed.

 

David

[plevyadophy]

Logic would dictate that the mirror would need to be raised and the focal plane shutter (FPS) opened before the central shutter (CS) would fire. Then after the CS exposure, the FPS would close and the mirror would return to its lowered position.

 

For speeds higher than 1/500th, the camera automatically switches over to the FPS and doesn't use the CS, even if the selector switch is set to CS. In FPS mode, the CS is not used at any shutter speed.

 

David

 

Hi thanks for the reply.

 

Sorry for being a bit dim but am I correct in saying, based on what you have said briefly, that the sequence is as follows:

 

1. Press shutter

2. FP shutter and mirror open/raise simultaneously to expose sensor

3. CS closes to end exposure

4. FP (second curtain ?) closes and mirror drops simultaneously

5. CS opens to restore view to viewfinder

 

So I take it then that the CS unit is a single curtain device then?

 

Now this is where I get really dim. I don't quite understand why the camera has to revert back to FP shutter for speeds faster than 1/500s?

 

I was under the impression that in-lens shutters were quite capable of working at speeds in excess of 1/500s. I was also thinking that if the CS was doing all/much of the donkey work when the camera is set to CS, then it would also mean that setting the Leica SF-58 hotshoe flash to HSS-TTL would be more effective as HSS wouldn't have to kick in until after 1/500 and thus could operate at a much higher power setting than it otherwise would.

 

This then brings me to my other curiosity, which is how is it that the Phase/Mamiya + Leaf back + Schneider lens combo is able to flash sync at speeds up to 1/1600 ( or is it 1/1800? ) but the Leica CS lens combo can only manage 1/500?

 

Thanks in advance.

 

Regards,

 

plevyadophy

[dfarkas]

Hi thanks for the reply.

 

Sorry for being a bit dim but am I correct in saying, based on what you have said briefly, that the sequence is as follows:

 

1. Press shutter

2. FP shutter and mirror open/raise simultaneously to expose sensor

3. CS closes to end exposure

4. FP (second curtain ?) closes and mirror drops simultaneously

5. CS opens to restore view to viewfinder

 

So I take it then that the CS unit is a single curtain device then?

 

Now this is where I get really dim. I don't quite understand why the camera has to revert back to FP shutter for speeds faster than 1/500s?

 

I was under the impression that in-lens shutters were quite capable of working at speeds in excess of 1/500s. I was also thinking that if the CS was doing all/much of the donkey work when the camera is set to CS, then it would also mean that setting the Leica SF-58 hotshoe flash to HSS-TTL would be more effective as HSS wouldn't have to kick in until after 1/500 and thus could operate at a much higher power setting than it otherwise would.

 

This then brings me to my other curiosity, which is how is it that the Phase/Mamiya + Leaf back + Schneider lens combo is able to flash sync at speeds up to 1/1600 ( or is it 1/1800? ) but the Leica CS lens combo can only manage 1/500?

 

Thanks in advance.

 

Regards,

 

plevyadophy

 

Perhaps I missed a step. Let me do it by the numbers as you did. I think that will be more clear. Please understand that I am not an engineer and this is my best guess based on camera mechanics. I will check with Leica to verify the sequence.

 

1. User presses the shutter release button

2. CS closes

3. Mirror goes up

4. FPS opens

5. CS fires, exposing sensor

6. FPS closes

7. Mirror returns down

 

Leica's CS is capable of firing at 1/500th. Hasselblad H and Mamiya LS (Phase) lenses go up to 1/800th. Hasselblad CF lenses go up to 1/500th. Mamiya RZ67 lenses go up to 1/400th. Since these are mechanic leaf shutter mechanisms, they are limited in their speed.

 

Leica's design goal was allow for a true 1/500th at all apertures with no exposure variation. So, in effect, the Leica's CS is underrated at some apertures in order to offer consistent results across the range. Doesn't sound as good for marketing purposes, but it does function properly. And, in practice, 1/2 of a stop shouldn't make too much of a difference for strobe applications.

 

The focal plane shutter goes up to 1/4000th. For available light applications and large apertures, this is much more preferable to a leaf shutter only.

 

For the Phase/DF/LS combo syncing up to 1/1600th, only certain Dalsa sensor backs are capable of this speed. The lens only goes up to 1/800th. The extra stop is squeezed out of the back with some form of electronic shutter, yet is unavailable with non-LS lenses. Many strobes don't have short enough flash durations to make this kind of speed usable (at least not without adjusting the power to compensate). But, given the right power pack and situation, the faster sync speed is pretty neat.

 

Hope this clarifies.

 

David

[plevyadophy]

Perhaps I missed a step. Let me do it by the numbers as you did. I think that will be more clear. Please understand that I am not an engineer and this is my best guess based on camera mechanics. I will check with Leica to verify the sequence.

 

1. User presses the shutter release button

2. CS closes

3. Mirror goes up

4. FPS opens

5. CS fires, exposing sensor

6. FPS closes

7. Mirror returns down

 

Leica's CS is capable of firing at 1/500th. Hasselblad H and Mamiya LS (Phase) lenses go up to 1/800th. Hasselblad CF lenses go up to 1/500th. Mamiya RZ67 lenses go up to 1/400th. Since these are mechanic leaf shutter mechanisms, they are limited in their speed.

 

Leica's design goal was allow for a true 1/500th at all apertures with no exposure variation. So, in effect, the Leica's CS is underrated at some apertures in order to offer consistent results across the range. Doesn't sound as good for marketing purposes, but it does function properly. And, in practice, 1/2 of a stop shouldn't make too much of a difference for strobe applications.

 

The focal plane shutter goes up to 1/4000th. For available light applications and large apertures, this is much more preferable to a leaf shutter only.

 

For the Phase/DF/LS combo syncing up to 1/1600th, only certain Dalsa sensor backs are capable of this speed. The lens only goes up to 1/800th. The extra stop is squeezed out of the back with some form of electronic shutter, yet is unavailable with non-LS lenses. Many strobes don't have short enough flash durations to make this kind of speed usable (at least not without adjusting the power to compensate). But, given the right power pack and situation, the faster sync speed is pretty neat.

 

Hope this clarifies.

 

David

 

Yeah, cool. Thanks for the detailed answer.

 

I do notice that your detailed suggestion as to how the CS thing works seems to imply that the mechanism is somewhat slower than my suggested sequence thus resulting in a little more shutter lag. In any event I would dearly love to find out the answer to this matter if you can get confirmation from Leica as to what the sequence is.

 

Thanks in advance.

 

Regards,

 

plevyadophy

[rosuna]

CS lenses have not started shipping yet. They are expected to start this Spring (which is almost here).

 

Even when the CS lenses start shipping, both the CS and the non-CS versions will be available. Not everyone needs the 1/500th of a sec sync speed of the CS lenses. For instance landscape photographers will have no need for this, but a fashion photographer would.

 

David

 

David,

 

Do you know if CS lenses are ready to ship? Any news?

 

Thanks!

[dfarkas]

David,

 

Do you know if CS lenses are ready to ship? Any news?

 

Thanks!

 

The central shutter mechanism is now gearing up for manufacture after passing reliability testing. Tooling, parts, and assembly procedures are being put in place now and the shutters should start going in to lenses within 1-2 months.

 

David

[Muscardino]

Even when the CS lenses start shipping, both the CS and the non-CS versions will be available.

 

David

 

David,

 

Do you know how much CS lenses finally will be released? (if the nine lenses announced for the S2 will have the CS version)

 

Thanks in advance.