ChiILX1 Posted February 24, 2011 Share #1 Posted February 24, 2011 Advertisement (gone after registration) I just sent my X1 in today for repair. The top plate began to separate and the hotshoe was extremely loose. I have the ThumbsUp and the Voigtländer viewfinder attached to it, and in the winter months stopped carrying it in my camera bag and started carrying it in my coat pocket for accessibility. It's the only reason I can think of (leverage of the thumbs up on the case combined with being in the coat pocket) for the gradual damage. By the way I sent it to NJ "registered mail" with insurance- they said at the post office that only special people handle and sign off on registered mail and it's not kept with the regular mail, so it's handled better (and got delivered the same day as a priority would have but it cost $8 less) Has anyone else experienced the same issue with their ThumbsUp as far as stress on the case? Of course I wouldn't see it as a ThumbsUp problem, but more a build quality problem of at least my X1. I miss it already- nothing like not having something to instantly start appreciating it more. All the negativity from this forum faded away and I started to miss taking it's gorgeous photos, I started seeing missed moments all over the place. I don't want to carry this film SLR around more than I have to! Anyway, hopefully I'll get it back with 2.0 installed Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted February 24, 2011 Posted February 24, 2011 Hi ChiILX1, Take a look here Repair - ThumbsUP related?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
h00ligan Posted February 24, 2011 Share #2 Posted February 24, 2011 That's a bummer.. sorry to hear. How long did you have the thumbsup on the camera? I never experienced issues in the limited time I used the thumbs up, but your usage was heavier I'd guess. When the camera is returned, will you continue to use the TU- and, let us know what they say about warranty.. I have a feeling it's not covered no matter the cause as they will cite 'physical damage' or similar. It's a shame that could be affected by some simple leverage though. Have you checked for threads in the m8/9 forums about the thumbsup doing this? Sorry Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke900 Posted February 24, 2011 Share #3 Posted February 24, 2011 I just sent my X1 in today for repair. The top plate began to separate and the hotshoe was extremely loose. I have the ThumbsUp and the Voigtländer viewfinder attached to it, and in the winter months stopped carrying it in my camera bag and started carrying it in my coat pocket for accessibility. It's the only reason I can think of (leverage of the thumbs up on the case combined with being in the coat pocket) for the gradual damage. By the way I sent it to NJ "registered mail" with insurance- they said at the post office that only special people handle and sign off on registered mail and it's not kept with the regular mail, so it's handled better (and got delivered the same day as a priority would have but it cost $8 less) Has anyone else experienced the same issue with their ThumbsUp as far as stress on the case? Of course I wouldn't see it as a ThumbsUp problem, but more a build quality problem of at least my X1. I miss it already- nothing like not having something to instantly start appreciating it more. All the negativity from this forum faded away and I started to miss taking it's gorgeous photos, I started seeing missed moments all over the place. I don't want to carry this film SLR around more than I have to! Anyway, hopefully I'll get it back with 2.0 installed Sorry, to hear that. Hope you get it fixed for free and get it back very soon. I also want to carry X1 in jacket for accessibility too. (now it's in small camera bag) and also looking to buy Thumbs Up or handgrip with hand strap for it. You case make me have to be careful with my idea to carry it in my jacket. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
phancj Posted February 24, 2011 Share #4 Posted February 24, 2011 I would thing the TU will introduce a different level of stress on the top plate. Thanks for telling us, and do hope you get your camera soon. My X1 has been bare sans VF, TU, grip, etc,etc. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
h00ligan Posted February 24, 2011 Share #5 Posted February 24, 2011 It's such a light device.. I can't see a ton of torque being put on it unless it became trapped as a result of the thumbsup inadvertently.. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
phancj Posted February 24, 2011 Share #6 Posted February 24, 2011 Never underestimate the strong grip some of us guys may have... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
spylaw4 Posted February 24, 2011 Share #7 Posted February 24, 2011 Advertisement (gone after registration) Hmm .... interesting. Caused me to look at mine - both TU and viewfinder installed. IMO (and I"m an engineer by profession) grip pressure on the TU would be very unlikely to cause this problem. What might (and I"m sure that Tim has taken this into account in his designs), is repeated and unusual (i.e. strong) pressure on the TU applied parallel to the rear of the body case from the aperture dial side or at right angles to the TU but outwards from the direction of the case itself. The other force with a small potential to cause a problem would be an upward force on the underside of the arm of the TU. These events all lead to an angular separation of TU from the body with the shoe as the "hinge". All of these are small possibilities IMO, but will depend on how roughly one carries or stores the camera and how one treats it in use. Constant repetition of the same force may have an effect. Stress from a mounted viewfinder will have been taken into account by Leica when designing the camera - after all they do market one as an accessory. Mounting a finder on a TU may make minute difference but is probably so small as to be discountable. Either the OP has been unlucky or, (and I"m not condemning or otherwise casting stones), has been doing something like the above - probably inadvertantly. My sympathy anyway I hope it gets fixed quick! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiILX1 Posted February 24, 2011 Author Share #8 Posted February 24, 2011 Thanks everyone for the condolences- I feel like we are a community outside the emergency room consoling each other! I've had the ThumbsUp on the camera since mid August? I believe I was the first one in this forum to purchase it, and Tim mentioned it was one of the first few units, so whenever it first came out. This developed over the winter though since I started carrying it in my coat pocket. At first, I thought the ThumbsUp was just loose, so I tightened it and that solved the problem. But I noticed it was tighter than it had needed to be (it hadn't become loose it's just that the original torque wasn't enough). After a week or so it was worse than it had been and I just accepted the play when I noticed it was the actual hotshoe that was wiggling, not the TU. Eventually, I noticed that the flash side of the camera plate in the back had play too- that it was 1-2mm separated from the black and I could see inside. If I pushed down, it would come back up when I let go. The opening was the single reason I didn't venture outside in the Chicago Blizzaster to take picture of the 600 abandoned vehicles on Lakeshore Drive. Leica was super generous in a previous repair, way too generous actually. So generous I don't feel comfortable posting publicly because I feel as though it would ruin everyone else's chances of receiving the same. PM me if interested. I don't think they will charge me. Honestly, it seems like a build issue to me. All separations and loosenings happened internally to the camera, so it would be, unfair perhaps to pin it on me. To be clear, I don't think it was the ThumbsUp per say that did it. I don't know what did and all I can say is that the only difference was that I started carrying it in my coat pocket, and then it happened "quickly" over the course of a few weeks. The Thumbs Up was just the only thing I saw that could have leveraged the hotshoe to become loose, and perhaps my compensational tightening pushed the back left side of the plate up? I have not checked the other forums for this issue. I like the tactile interaction with the ThumbsUp so much that I plan to re-attach it when the X1 returns and just keep it out of my pocket. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
h00ligan Posted February 24, 2011 Share #9 Posted February 24, 2011 hope it's back soon - thx for the clarification Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeTexas Posted February 24, 2011 Share #10 Posted February 24, 2011 My best guess would be that it possibly got leaned on and pressed against a chair arm or something while in your pocket or bag. Once the screw or glue holding the top plate down was damaged and the top plate was warped, it just slowly worked its way looser and looser with additional pressure and vibration. At some point I chipped my Giottos screen protector. I've never dropped the camera or banged it on anything, so I'm guessing it was packed in a bag that I inadvertently tossed on a table or in a corner without remembering the camera was in there -- that or someone dropped or banged it for me at a party. Who knows? Hope it gets fixed soon. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
prk60091 Posted February 24, 2011 Share #11 Posted February 24, 2011 I am a fan of the ThumbsUp but i was concerned about the torque as well.... there is a set screw which comes w/the thumbsup which i promptly tightened with the included allen wrench- which i hope keeps the Thumbsup stationery and prevents it from torqueing sorry about your X1 bsgraupner on a positive note- maybe you will be the 1st with the firmware upgrade Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiILX1 Posted February 24, 2011 Author Share #12 Posted February 24, 2011 Thanks- Could the tightening of the hotshoe screw in compensation for the initial loosening have caused the plate separation (which continued even after the TU was removed) and/or the hotshoe looseness? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
h00ligan Posted February 24, 2011 Share #13 Posted February 24, 2011 I am a fan of the ThumbsUp but i was concerned about the torque as well.... there is a set screw which comes w/the thumbsup which i promptly tightened with the included allen wrench- which i hope keeps the Thumbsup stationery and prevents it from torqueing sorry about your X1 bsgraupner on a positive note- maybe you will be the 1st with the firmware upgrade interesting! I never even noticed there was a screw that could be tightened. Is it meant to be? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiILX1 Posted February 24, 2011 Author Share #14 Posted February 24, 2011 Yes Edward- here is a video on installing it: match Technical Services - help Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
h00ligan Posted February 25, 2011 Share #15 Posted February 25, 2011 err.. I never got a tool I don't think... It was so tight to begin with! If I keep the x1 (yes yes, another thread) I'll be getting a thumbsup again.. it just came at a time when I just got out of hospital and couldn't really give it a fair shake.. wanted to make sure I had a fair chance to try it.. but it seemed better than the grip to/for me. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiILX1 Posted February 25, 2011 Author Share #16 Posted February 25, 2011 It was probably pre-tightened when you got it and it's meant to be loosened for insert and tightened afterwards. There should be an allen wrench in the box otherwise you probably have one in the tool box that will work. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidhunternyc Posted February 25, 2011 Share #17 Posted February 25, 2011 Hmm, this thread is concerning. I have the Leica handgrip for my X1 and like it but it feels like cheap plastic. I was thinking about the ThumbsUp but would you really promote it if the ThumbsUp is the cause of all these problems? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiILX1 Posted February 25, 2011 Author Share #18 Posted February 25, 2011 I would absolutely. The ThumbsUP is my favorite accessory for the X1. I would just advise... 1) Don't put it in your pocket for extended time periods 2) Don't tighten the allen screw past the minimum Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
prk60091 Posted February 27, 2011 Share #19 Posted February 27, 2011 I did some testing and shooting today. ..my thumbs up rests flush w: the camera when the set screw is tightened tightened. A piece of paper cann or slip in or out of the 'gap'. I do not think the thumbsup contributed to your issue bsgraupner. Why fo you recommend not putting the camera in a pocket? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiILX1 Posted February 27, 2011 Author Share #20 Posted February 27, 2011 Thanks for thinking of my issue and doing a test! I am not certain it contributed or caused the issue. This is what I know: 1) The hot shoe became loose 2) The flash side of the back of the top plate came apart by approx. 2 mm 3) The TU and the viewfinder were on the hotshoe. 4) The TU first seemed "loose" a week or two after first starting to carry it in my coat pocket 5) Tightening the screw solved the problem 6) A few weeks after tightening it gradually started to become loose again and the plate started to separate. Perhaps, as JeTexas suggests the TU may have given the necessary leverage to something my coat pocket was up against perhaps when I stood up or something, to cause the issues. For example, if something pushed down on the top right part of the thumbs up could that have separated the plate? Or if something pushed up or down on the main part of the thumbs up could that have caused a loose rocking in the hotshoe? I don't know so I posted here that with help like yours we could perhaps find out why and no one else would have to go through what I went through. The main reason I suspect the thumbs up had something to do with it is that without the thumbs up, unless you really tried to do it, there is nothing else that sticks out on the camera that could have pulled the top plate apart, especially by accident. As for the hotshoe, I suppose that forward or backward pressure on a viewfinder could cause the loosening of it. All that on the table, knowing my caution with my rolls royce of cameras (as an anthropology graduate student, owning a Leica is a bit beyond the pale and so I am more than careful with it), there was no reckless event, let alone series of reckless events (as the gradual worsening would suggest) that could have caused this. Therefore, it would seem to me that perhaps innocent unsuspicious events, through the leverage of the ThumbsUp, and with apparently soft metal parts inside (they didn't snap off but instead gradually bent out or loosened right?), got the damage to where it was. So to answer your question based on that logical speculation, I recommend not keeping it in your pocket with the thumbs up attached because the thumbs up could provide a simple brush against the coat by a counter top with enough leverage to damage your camera. However, I am open to other suggestions. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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