Jump to content
🇩🇪 Neu: Leica SL3 Reporter ×
🇺🇸🇬🇧 New: Leica SL3 Reporter ×

M8 with Metz 54MZ-4i and SCA 3502M4 in TTL mode

pesche

By pesche
in Digital Forum

Recommended Posts

wlaidlaw

wlaidlaw

Posted
Posted

Advertisement (gone after registration)

Has someone else read the article in LFI ? You'll discover that Leica spent some time and energy to make this work much better than before to take advantage of the fastest shutter.

 

Pascal,

 

Which issue of LFI?

 

Wilson

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 76
  • Created
  • Last Reply
peterv

peterv

Posted
Posted

Pascal,

I just did this afternoon, and found it very interesting. Indeed Leica went through a lot to make the flash work the way it does. I didn't realise that the technical side of this involved calculations this complicated. However, it explains why the flash photo's I took, look as good (exposure-wise) as they do.

 

I use the 54MZ-4i in GNC-mode and also in A-mode with two remote units as slaves. I found that in the latter situation the flash measures 1 stop different from the M8. In order to get correct exposure in A-mode I need to set the aperture on the camera appr. one stop wider than on the flash.

 

I'm very much looking forward to the next LFI. They will elaborate even more on M8 flash photography.

 

Cheers,

 

Peter

Link to post
Share on other sites
wlaidlaw

wlaidlaw

Posted
Posted
Thank God for the diffuser :)

 

BTW are you happy you bought it now?

 

It's a great flash system.

 

Cheers,

 

Peter

 

Not really Peter. The 54 underexposes constantly in GNC mode due I suspect to the IR problem. Yes I have IR filters on the way (eventually - anyone listening out there) but with flash I suspect I will just be swapping one problem for another - flare. I very rarely use filters on flash digital for just this reason. The light can so easily bounce backwards and forwards between the two plane surfaces, the sensor and the filter. You can get horrendous flare as a result of this, not so much from the flash, other than direct reflections but from other lighting sources in the room.

 

I feel I might as well have stuck with my 40MZ-2 and used A mode. At them moment I cannot see that GNC has gained me anything and I have lost the ability to compensate, which given the underexposing, is vitally needed. Leica may well have done a lot of work on this aspect but in my view it has not been too effective. In fact I would go so far as to say that between Leica and Metz the current GNC abilities are poor. When my SF24-D returns from loan next week, I will see how I get on with that. GNC may seem more impressive then.

 

Wilson

Link to post
Share on other sites
peterv

peterv

Posted
Posted
Not really Peter. The 54 underexposes constantly in GNC mode due I suspect to the IR problem.

 

Yes, underexposure is a problem, without IR filter.

 

Yes I have IR filters on the way (eventually - anyone listening out there) but with flash I suspect I will just be swapping one problem for another - flare. I very rarely use filters on flash digital for just this reason. The light can so easily bounce backwards and forwards between the two plane surfaces, the sensor and the filter. You can get horrendous flare as a result of this, not so much from the flash, other than direct reflections but from other lighting sources in the room.

 

I've made a few hundred flash-photo's and not yet encountered this.

 

I feel I might as well have stuck with my 40MZ-2 and used A mode. At them moment I cannot see that GNC has gained me anything and I have lost the ability to compensate, which given the underexposing, is vitally needed. Leica may well have done a lot of work on this aspect but in my view it has not been too effective. In fact I would go so far as to say that between Leica and Metz the current GNC abilities are poor.

 

Exposure has been spot on here, up till now. Also, even direct flash does not look as harsh and contrasty as I'm used to...

 

When my SF24-D returns from loan next week, I will see how I get on with that. GNC may seem more impressive then.

 

Wilson

 

I hope so Wilson,

 

cheers,

 

peter

Link to post
Share on other sites
marknorton

marknorton

Posted
Posted

Advertisement (gone after registration)

There's an interesting article on LFI 2/2007 which describes the M8 TTL metered flash operation, including for example, the information that the shutter is coated with a special coating to reflect the pre-flash emitted by the flash onto the flash sensors mounted either side of the main metering cell in the base of the lens throat.

Link to post
Share on other sites
khanosu

khanosu

Posted
Posted

For me the exposure with the Metz has been consistently spot-on with an IR cut filter. I have also never gotten any reflections off of the filter. With the P76 battery pack recycling times are almost instantaneous and I can run the flash off one charge for a month or more. Here is a sample of exposures I am getting; I can’t ask for more.

 

Furrukh

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

Link to post
Share on other sites
robovet

robovet

Posted
Posted

Greetings. I have been playing around with my metz 54MZ-3 and have found it to be pretty easy to get it to work with the M8. Flash is on Manual (not gmc). Just adjusting the compensation and using the tilt I am able to get the effect I want. I rarely use flash on my M's but I like to use the flash and blur when shooting dancing at receptions etc. This was a 1/8 F2.8 exposure on a 24mm (not coded and no IR filter). Metz @ 1/32

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

Link to post
Share on other sites
wlaidlaw

wlaidlaw

Posted
Posted
Greetings. I have been playing around with my metz 54MZ-3 and have found it to be pretty easy to get it to work with the M8. Flash is on Manual (not gmc). Just adjusting the compensation and using the tilt I am able to get the effect I want. I rarely use flash on my M's but I like to use the flash and blur when shooting dancing at receptions etc. This was a 1/8 F2.8 exposure on a 24mm (not coded and no IR filter). Metz @ 1/32

 

Whilst not wishing to be hypercritical because the composition and image are very good, it looks somewhat underexposed to me and there is very noticeable vignetting. What 24mm lens were you using? Was that second curtain synchronisation?

 

I am afraid I still come back to the point that it is absurd to supply a $600 flash system to customers using the latest GNC technology and not give them the ability to EV compensate. There will always be situations (dark foreground/lightbackground and vice versa) where you WILL need to compensate. With the first you can probably cure the image in PS but for number two where you could get blown out pixels, there is nothing you can do in post processing to recover data that is not there. You have to be able to manually turn the flash power down. By the time you have changed the flash mode from GNC to A and dialled in compensation, the moment may well have passed.

 

Wilson

Link to post
Share on other sites
wlaidlaw

wlaidlaw

Posted
Posted

I have been experimenting some more with the M8 and 54 MZ-4i + SCA 3502. I have come to the conclusion that the sensor(s) for the GNC system inside the M8 are very wide angle. If there is anything in shot or even round the outside of a shot that will give a fairly bright reflection, then it will expose for that. It seems very biased to exposing for the near field and things further away are left in darkness. All in all, rather dumb, hence the desperate need for the missing EV compensation.

 

BTW I have had a partial reply from Lutz Goeschel at Metz confirming that as we all thought, there is no EV compensation possible for this flash system. I have had no reply to the question as to how we are then supposed to use this GBP300 system, which basically is pretty useless in GNC mode, why they recommend it at all, via both their own website and dealers, why I was told that the 54MZ-4 acted differently from the 54MZ-4i etc etc. Another problem I have thought of if I use IR filters, is that one of the lenses I use most indoors is the 21mm Biogon. I have a 46mm filter coming for it but I suspect the cyan corners will be very evident, even if it does not cause vignetting. I really hope Sean and the others win their battle on our behalf with Leica for manual lens code selection. I think we will owe them a big dinner if they do.

 

Wilson

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

Link to post
Share on other sites
wlaidlaw

wlaidlaw

Posted
Posted
Wilson

in those circumstances why not use AUTO flash, or manual

where you can select what you need

 

Riley,

 

Because you then have to manually set the aperture on the flash every time you alter it on the camera.

 

If I had been prepared to put up with Auto Flash, I could easily have stuck with my old 40MZ-2 but foolishly allowed myself to be persuaded that the GNC on the 54MZ-4i was "the thing". That is why I am so irritated about the whole scenario - I feel as if I have been taken for a ride by Metz and a GBP300 one at that. On the old 40MZ-2, the aperture is actually easier to alter than on the 54. You have a dedicated button for aperture and don't have to cycle through a menu.

 

Wilson

Link to post
Share on other sites
peterv

peterv

Posted
Posted

Wilson,

 

I see your point, if your 54 MZi doesn't give you the promised results in TTL/GNC - mode, maybe you should just see if you can return it and get a refund.

 

Than again it's strange that the combination 54 MZi/ M8 works well for others...

 

Are you sure there is no defect somewhere?

 

Cheers,

 

Peter

Link to post
Share on other sites
grober

grober

Posted
Posted
Grober,

 

What kind of radio trigger do you use? Will this also make the Metz 54 MZ-4i fire?

 

 

 

Peter,

 

I use the small radio trigger units from Morris, an outfit in Chicago, SnowCountry, USA.

 

Their site: The Morris Co.

 

Works fine with two flash units over moderate studio distances. Just be sure to use fresh alkaline batteries (two each) in the remote triggers on the flash units. I like this solution because the Morris 'sender unit' on the M8 is small unlike another popular one, the Pocketwizard. (Despite my admiration for Morris, I'll still separate the sender from the M8 with a Wein SynchSafe.)

 

I'm using them for a location shoot tonight in a church of two classical keyboard artists who each need promotional photos.

 

-g

Link to post
Share on other sites
wlaidlaw

wlaidlaw

Posted
Posted
Wilson,

 

I see your point, if your 54 MZi doesn't give you the promised results in TTL/GNC - mode, maybe you should just see if you can return it and get a refund.

 

Than again it's strange that the combination 54 MZi/ M8 works well for others...

 

Are you sure there is no defect somewhere?

 

Cheers,

 

Peter

 

Peter,

 

I don't think it is working well for most people. Nearly everyone is talking about underexposure and hoping that the IR filters will cure it. If Metz put on EV compensation on all their other modes and flashes, why on earth did they believe that it would not be needed or desired on this combination and mode. As Mr. Spock would have said "it is not logical. You humans herumphhhh..."

 

Wilson

Link to post
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Go to topic listing

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...