andybarton Posted January 25, 2011 Share #21 Â Posted January 25, 2011 Advertisement (gone after registration) No doubt because they appear to have been working on it for a while and someone has claimed to have used v2 (before Christmas). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted January 25, 2011 Posted January 25, 2011 Hi andybarton, Take a look here X1- BMW limited edition. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Ecaton Posted January 25, 2011 Author Share #22 Â Posted January 25, 2011 ...pardon my ignorance, but does the X1 not function as described? What is wrong with it? Â It produces gorgeous files, no question. However, the X1's AF performance is widely known meanwhile. And this is how Leica rates it on their webpage: "Autofocus Competence The autofocus of the X1 enables photographers to react in an instant." And other official statements of Leica echo the claim of fast AF. I would not call this "........function as described". Unfortunately, switching to and using MF is not fast either (via menu from AF- via macro AF - to MF, instead via one click on a dedicated button) making the X1 a pretty slow camera. Competition has set benchmarks as far as technically doable AF speeds for compact aps-c sensor cameras are concerned (Sony NEX, Samsung NX, Ricoh GXR A12 modules) and also what customers can expect in terms of FW updates (frequency and turnaround times). Holding Leica to standards established by competition is not unreasonable. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill Posted January 25, 2011 Share #23 Â Posted January 25, 2011 Why do people always want to have a pop when Leica sets out to make a few extra Euros from the cash-rich, taste-poor? Â It's hardly new: http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-wiki.en/index.php/Z2X_and_Z2X_DB Â ...to name but one. Â If it brings in enough money to pay for the apprenticeship of one new trainee who will go on to make "real" lenses for "proper" cameras for the ultra-impatient, fast-food generation, want-it-NOW Leicarati, who cares? Really? Â Regards, Â Bill Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
phancj Posted January 25, 2011 Share #24 Â Posted January 25, 2011 I wont buy a limited edition camera but understand why some may do so. Exclusivity has value to many. You see LV Prada Gucci bags all over here and no one really cares or complain how a simple synthetic material bag can cost so much, makes the M9 and X1 a definite steal by comparison, to each his/her own! Â BTW on the same note I am buying my wife the dlux5 instead of the lx5, but only because by comparison the jpeg appears better, and there is a copy of LR my wife can try to learn. The extra $50 or $100 I do not mind paying for the red dot alongside the brand and what I perceive to be more posh exterior. Thats the extent I will pay for a brand. Â I also seriously think my wife will feel happier and think she believes she'll take better photos with the Leica. Thats worth the slight premium. Â CJ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsrockit Posted January 25, 2011 Share #25  Posted January 25, 2011 Nonsense! But that does not mean that a firmware update would not be welcome.  Unfortunately, unless you are doing still lifes and landscapes... it is kind of not nonsense. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ecaton Posted January 26, 2011 Author Share #26  Posted January 26, 2011 No it doesn't. Engraving "BMW" on the top and choosing a different colour leatherette, does not stop someone working on the firmware. I bet the firmware isn't even being worked upon in the same factory, or even the same country. That could be being done anywhere on the planet. So. This special edition is just the latest in a long line of cameras with Leica squeezing more money out of people who like this sort of thing and it doesn't distract one iota from the firmware writers. If it absorbs someone's time, it is someone in marketing.  We do differ in opinion here. Changes to products, including FW updates, are worked on at shopfloor levels. Sure mr. minit could do the engraving in 10 minutes. But this is not where it starts or ends. Before and after shopfloors get involved, a lot of other activities are required. But I'm sure you already knew that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
aciel ton anap Posted January 26, 2011 Share #27 Â Posted January 26, 2011 Advertisement (gone after registration) Â I also seriously think my wife will feel happier and think she believes she'll take better photos with the Leica. Thats worth the slight premium. Â CJ Â ...and that Ladies and Gentlemen pretty much sums up the D Lux 5 - LX 5 debate Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
phancj Posted January 27, 2011 Share #28  Posted January 27, 2011 ...and that Ladies and Gentlemen pretty much sums up the D Lux 5 - LX 5 debate  Haha quoting only part of the post is not very objective is it?  The jpeg processing IS indeed different, the physical aspects are all similar so the difference is in the software. Panasonic and Leica clearly has differing philosophies on what an image should be but the dlux jpegs are noticeably better. Not a big deal if you only shoot raw but in my wife's case and many others they would prefer to use jpegs directly from P&S cams.  Having said that perhaps the red dot inspire confidence in many??!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
phancj Posted January 27, 2011 Share #29 Â Posted January 27, 2011 We do differ in opinion here. Changes to products, including FW updates, are worked on at shopfloor levels. Sure mr. minit could do the engraving in 10 minutes. But this is not where it starts or ends. Before and after shopfloors get involved, a lot of other activities are required.But I'm sure you already knew that. Â Firmware updates are considered part of support and totally apart of marketing, there is no drainage of resources from other depts. The "special editions" require very little effort and are definitely not demanding on corporate resources. A great way to increase the bottom line. I typically engrave a logo with laser on metal in less than a few milliseconds and slapping on a different leatherette does not change the workflow at all, all it takes is to order a different one. Â So I have to disagree, the creation of special editions will be totally irrelevant to the release speed of the firmware. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allnm Posted January 27, 2011 Share #30  Posted January 27, 2011 The extra $50 or $100 I do not mind paying for the red dot alongside the brand and what I perceive to be more posh exterior. Thats the extent I will pay for a brand.CJ  Thats not a bad premium to get the Leica version, unfortunately, here in the UK where profit means everything, the LX5 is about £350 ( average) but the D-Lux 5 is about £650 on average. Cheapest I saw is £599, dearest almost £800! Multiply by 1.5 to get the $ equivalent, then wonder why people in the Uk will pay so much more for the Leica badge!  With reference to earlier comments regarding the slow AF and Leica's much vaunted descripton of its "instant AF" I am assuming all these people that quote the Leica blurb then complain about the camera did so because they bought theirs on the first day of introduction and not after reading all the later reviews...... In my opinion, it really isnt as slow as some people make out.  Heres a tip. Never believe anything you read and hear, certainly not from someone selling their own product!  Allan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ecaton Posted January 27, 2011 Author Share #31  Posted January 27, 2011 Thats not a bad premium to get the Leica version, unfortunately, here in the UK where profit means everything, the LX5 is about £350 ( average) but the D-Lux 5 is about £650 on average. Cheapest I saw is £599, dearest almost £800!Multiply by 1.5 to get the $ equivalent, then wonder why people in the Uk will pay so much more for the Leica badge!  With reference to earlier comments regarding the slow AF and Leica's much vaunted descripton of its "instant AF" I am assuming all these people that quote the Leica blurb then complain about the camera did so because they bought theirs on the first day of introduction and not after reading all the later reviews...... In my opinion, it really isnt as slow as some people make out.  Heres a tip. Never believe anything you read and hear, certainly not from someone selling their own product!  Allan  Yes. I ordered mine in September 2009, the day it was announced. So what you are saying is we should not believe your UK D-Lux5 pricing info? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
phancj Posted January 28, 2011 Share #32 Â Posted January 28, 2011 Allan, Â You have to factor in the price of LR3 in the UK to be a fair comparison, that is, assuming you do not have it yet. Â As per you comment on AF speed, I totally agree, its not fast but usable. Even my newest AFS Nikkors 85mm and 35mm f/1.4gs are not fast either. Much slower than my zoom lenses for sure. I do not go on slamming its AF speed when it is branded as AFS, coz the IQ is astounding. Same for my Nikkor 105 micro, it hunts sometimes in low light. You do not find so many posts slamming their AF speed like the X1, and these arent inexpensive lenses either. I think red dot incites antagonism very much like red ferraris with traffic cops..haha... Â CJ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
h00ligan Posted January 28, 2011 Share #33  Posted January 28, 2011 Cj, I think it's more the price that accompanies the red dot.  It's not a fast lens Slow write Slow read Loose dials for some peeling skin for some No dng only option Bad manual focus implementation No vf is an issue for some Low res screen  $2000  There are several things that can be fixed, and a year to do so is a long time. Yes people should research, but I don't think it's unreasonable to expect a premium product for a premium price.  The iq is outstanding for a compact camera...they just need to catch up to 2010 even with technology. leica opted for inexpensive parts for this camera and cut corners (to many onlookers)  Why buy old controllers and screens..they are charging enough to do better..and yes, the same can be said about the m9.  I know a lot of members here object to the criticism...and I know a token answer is..'it's good enough for me to capture images..  That said I don't tnk it fair to ignore the shortcomings or make excuses for some product part choices, slow firmware updates, or build quality complaints.  Clearly there are many leica fans who ultimately care about iq..but that doesn't mean they should stop at mediocrity when it comes to the technology used, and charge much more than the competition.  I own an x1 clearly, and it does make beautiful images..but it is crippled by some decisions leica made, or continue to make. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
phancj Posted January 28, 2011 Share #34 Â Posted January 28, 2011 Edward, Â All these problems are likely to surface for a small company, such are the scheme of things since they are not in control of components. With their comparatively miniscule order of components they will lose economy of scale leading to pricier components to begin with. Â My point was even for a hugely successful company like Nikon corporation their latest and best f/1.4g lenses are slow too especially when they are branded AFS so should be lightning fast, but they are slow compared to my other AFS lenses and by a far margin. I am not giving excuses for Leica but looking at it objectively I think if you label something AFS it gotta be real quick, but these lenses are certainly not fast in AF perhaps due to the heavy lens elements I do not know. But I like these lenses and the images they take. BTW they are not cheap either, each lens is about the price of the X1, build quality is so-so as many parts are plastic. The X1 looks more posh than the two lenses for sure. Â End of the day all I am saying is enjoy what we have for as long as we feel like it and the moment the love is lost just get rid of it and buy the one that pleases you the most. No point harping about it as every camera manufacturers have their own agenda and work on their own pace and decisions. Â I have both the HTC touch HD as I like the massive screen but each had its own problems but it did not distract too much from my use of the phones. What pissed me off was HTC promised the confirmed upgrade to windows mobile 7 when it launches since the HD2 was supposed to be built with forward compatibility but when the new windows mobile was launched, no more news of this upgrade surfaced. Instead of ranting I just dumped the HD2 into my drawer and went for the nokia N8 which is a great phone for its camera/video not to mention their many free apps. I am certainly not going to rant about HTC and how they ripped off buyers (counterproductive and not worthy of my time & effort), but I will certainly avoid their products henceforth. Not that it matters now coz windows mobile 7 is buggy and appears to be a flop. My point is we are consumers with the money to spend and we decide where to put the money, if I made a mistake then I just move on and lesson learnt. Hopefully the next purchase decision is right. Â Having said that I also know for certain there is no perfect product for me. The X1 over the year I have had it has brought great joy. You seem really upset from your post and I understand it, but cannot understand why you would not dump the cam for another that may please you more. If that cam hasnt surfaced then maybe your expectations are unrealistic, but if it has then I say go for it. Life is short! Â Leica has their own philosophy of camera-making and their own business sense, we can either subscribe to it or boycott it with our consumer dollars. That is our right and we should exercise it carefully. But remember in life you take the goodies with the crap. Just decide if the goodies is worth the accompanying crap, no? Â I say this with the best of intentions and without any condescending attitude, just a genuine feeling wanting you to be happy. Â CJ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
colonel Posted January 28, 2011 Share #35 Â Posted January 28, 2011 HTC phones are great, but the HTC Desire HD has pretty poor batery life, it was a no go for me. I have tried many android phones but always come back to the iphone. The iphone 4 just has a better battery life, better screen and is faster and easier to operate. Â Thats what I don't want to do with a compact Camera, waste money on lots of trys and come back to the best. I have a FF DSLR which I take when I can, but I wanted something small. I have tried LX3, S95, GF1 and EP1 but all have disappointing picture quality. Â For ultimate picture quality in a compact, taking into account the sensor and the lens, the X1 and DP2S are the only game in town. The X1 has the edge, particularly in ISO, so its just a question of money. Â The slowness and 230K screen ? Well its the only game in town for the best, so whilst I can complain, and I can also say it doesn't effect my picture taking, it seems to be the only destination for me. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wattsy Posted January 28, 2011 Share #36 Â Posted January 28, 2011 That's got to be the most un-special special edition ever! Â Agreed. This BMW special edition is so bad it's almost good - reminds me of these. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
phancj Posted January 28, 2011 Share #37  Posted January 28, 2011 HTC phones are great, but the HTC Desire HD has pretty poor batery life, it was a no go for me. I have tried many android phones but always come back to the iphone. The iphone 4 just has a better battery life, better screen and is faster and easier to operate. Thats what I don't want to do with a compact Camera, waste money on lots of trys and come back to the best. I have a FF DSLR which I take when I can, but I wanted something small. I have tried LX3, S95, GF1 and EP1 but all have disappointing picture quality.  For ultimate picture quality in a compact, taking into account the sensor and the lens, the X1 and DP2S are the only game in town. The X1 has the edge, particularly in ISO, so its just a question of money.  The slowness and 230K screen ? Well its the only game in town for the best, so whilst I can complain, and I can also say it doesn't effect my picture taking, it seems to be the only destination for me.  I agree with you 100% on the X1.  As for the iphone I am a mac user for over a decade but I do not care for their phones, poorer reception and too "closed" for my liking, no bluetooth file transfer, the absolute need for itunes for link to mac, etc, etc. The interface is nice but thats about it for me. Right now I personally find the nokia N8 to be phenomenal phone, great sensor carl zeiss lens and less aggressive sharpening and more natural colors. Plus the big thing of direct HDMI output to TV and more astonishingly direct USB to harddrive and flashdrive. It's like a little computer if you ask me. Much as I like the MAcs I find the apple portable devices too restrictive. Most apps are free on ovi too.  Agreed. This BMW special edition is so bad it's almost good - reminds me of these.  Its lame but you still see people buy them. Thats what counts for leica, I wont be ripped off this way though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
h00ligan Posted January 28, 2011 Share #38 Â Posted January 28, 2011 Cj, Â Thanks for the detailed reponse. I understand that leica's orders are small comparatively but also highly doubt that it would have changed their bottom line that much, especially given their profits lst year. Â I'm not upset, I was merely stating that there are viable complaints or negatives to the x1. I tend not to allow material things to upset me much, too many things in life already there that matter more. Â RAther, I was only trying to state with objectivity the shortcomings. Of course the iq is the feather in the cap. Â With all the shortcomings I listed, some have affected me, some have not. It is slow to operate..but if you pushed me for one thing I'd really wish was changed, it would be a faster lens that focused closer. Because the focal range is so short, it would be really nice to have f2 or > for shallower dof. 2.8 would be on the border at 50 mm, but I like shooting wide open. And closer well..self explanatory. Â For landscapes, the camera can really deliver (but wider would be nice)..for zone focus street shots its not bad either (save the shutter lag).. Â I keep the camera because I do like the output, simple use, sharpness, rendering..even the colors aren't bad..and I don't think there is a better compact right now. I do however think that will change early this year, then I'll have to decide. Â One thing that has affected me is the metering. I find the x1 constantly overexposes by 2/3-1 stop..I forgot to dial in the negative ev on my first day out and unfortunately ruined any shots I took (yes it's my fault). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
phancj Posted January 28, 2011 Share #39 Â Posted January 28, 2011 Edward, Â Strange you find the metering inaccurate, its actually very good and accurate IMO. Â But these days I am so used to the little thing I do use all manual setitngs to have more control. Â CJ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Photojazz Posted February 5, 2011 Share #40 Â Posted February 5, 2011 I saw this and really did a big eye roll that this is completely stupid. Probably the most rediculous thing possible. I've seen Hassleblad's red Ferrari, almost as dumb. When will marketers figure out that photographers buy cameras, and value the product, and reputation of manufacters, not what a camera sez or what color it is. Â That said, I like my Black M9, the X1 in 2 tone is ok, black wasn't available. I can print BMW on them myself. haha. I actually want the "M" version since I value my M3 too,(BMW) lol, Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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