Muizen Posted January 23, 2011 Share #1 Posted January 23, 2011 Advertisement (gone after registration) Jaapv has been so kind as to explain in the FAQ-section in the M9 forum in what way he sharpens images. On the one hand I am impressed with the techniques he describes, however on the other hand I like to pose the question how many M9 photographers are capable and have the time and patience to follow Jaap's explanations. Photography should be a hobby and not almost a sofware specialist's job. What Jaap describes is for me just far too much and I feel that when a photo needs this kind of specialist sharpening it is far better to learn to to shoot pictures that do not require this kind of extensive pp just for sharpening! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted January 23, 2011 Posted January 23, 2011 Hi Muizen, Take a look here What is a good way to sharpen my images?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Bill Allsopp Posted January 23, 2011 Share #2 Posted January 23, 2011 Every image is different The advice given is good, save the different techniques that you find work for you as separate PS actions and use the one(s) you need. They become very simple with practice and experience. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob_w Posted January 23, 2011 Share #3 Posted January 23, 2011 Muizen, I share your concern about becoming a software technician, but I think Jaap's technique might look too laborious because it takes longer to explain than to do. Once you have applied the steps to the first photo it becomes quick and simple to Sync them to a set of photos in a shoot. Also, Jaap explains what is behind the use of each control, so you can develop a feeling for which sliders will tweak the result in the way you want. I encourage you to try it for a while. Almost all photos benefit from a little judicious post-processing, be that sharpening, colour balance, cropping or whatever, even in the days of yore. Good luck! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted January 23, 2011 Share #4 Posted January 23, 2011 Libraries of books have been written on darkroom techniques. If you wanted to get a good print you needed to read up and follow the technique before you even put the film in the enlarger. Postprocessing is the same. To get the best results, you have to know your theory. With practice, it becomes routine and fast. And I fear that there are no images that don't require proper post-processing, even if minimally. It is just part of the imaging process. I have just been looking through "Many Eyes, One Camera", and it is shocking to see, with the knowledge we have now, and the tools we have now, how many images were mis-sharpened then. I have the same feeling going back to my own older digital images. And that is just a few years.... As a matter of fact the technique I describe is very simple - as you can see what you are doing on your screen.Try it a few times, it is a matter of seconds. I emphasize that a one-pass technique does not work properly as you are trying to do three - sometimes contradictory- things in one go. The content of the image is the root of your settings. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pico Posted January 23, 2011 Share #5 Posted January 23, 2011 1. copy layer to a new layer 2. desaturate it 3. filters - other - high pass to 1.2 pixels 4. set mode of layer to overlay Re: #3 - the pixels setting depends upon the size of the image. Experiment to find what works best for your usual setting, and keep that for other work. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muizen Posted January 23, 2011 Author Share #6 Posted January 23, 2011 1. copy layer to a new layer2. desaturate it 3. filters - other - high pass to 1.2 pixels 4. set mode of layer to overlay Re: #3 - the pixels setting depends upon the size of the image. Experiment to find what works best for your usual setting, and keep that for other work. If I just try to understand the above descriptions "copy layer to a new layer", "desaturate it"; "filter - other -high pass to 1.2 pixels" followed by "set mode of layer to overlay" all of this to me is totally unclear. I would not know how to apply all these steps, and more importantly, would not understand "why". If I would try to understand what all of this means I would no longer be in my photo hobby. I am also convinced that if everybody on this forum would be honest, the majority would admit neither to understand what it means nor ever to apply this kind of utterly complicated post processing. I am most likely far to dumm to understand this kind of high brow stuff, but happilly enough I use a Leica M9 that hardly needs any post processing! And again I feel that if my photos would need the above extensive pp, I should delete these and next time try to be a better photographer. Sorry for not being able to appreciate this kind of (only for me?) really too complicated electronic photographic techniques. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luuk Posted January 23, 2011 Share #7 Posted January 23, 2011 Advertisement (gone after registration) It is important that you know what you are doing with you DNG's. If you wan to learn how to sharpen in PS take this course! Photoshop CS3 Tutorials | Sharpening Images. It is not for free. But a subscription will give you acces to other very usefull courses as well. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
thighslapper Posted January 23, 2011 Share #8 Posted January 23, 2011 Muizen...... You don't tell us what platform you are using (Mac/PC)..... or what software you have access to..... Whilst Photoshop might be the gold standard for pros/semi-pros there are plenty of other programs that will make a decent fist of basic sharpening. Aperture 3 is more than enough for me, with both adjustable sharpening of the raw DNG on import and the choice of sharpening/edge sharpening which can then be applied overall or brushed in selectively. I just shove the sliders about and see what happens. I agree, lifes too short to learn the intricacies of PS ...... and CS5 is £600, which is fine if a tax deductible business expense but is otherwise extortionate. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swanny66 Posted January 23, 2011 Share #9 Posted January 23, 2011 I find it matters by image. I use the sharpening in the adobe RAW converter, edge sharpening, USM, smart sharpen, I will layer mask some in certain areas, a combination of these, etc. It is great to have a tutorial. But ultimately, it is how to make the images rendered as accurately as possible....or as int. And using the correct method for that to be accomplished. And this is not accomplished with just one method of sharpening. Also, I do not believe it is necessary to purchase a 3rd party sharpening program with CS5. I am not familiar with Lightroom. But with CS5 there are numerous methods available to the individual to where this is not necessary. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mustafasoleiman Posted January 24, 2011 Share #10 Posted January 24, 2011 Interesting... I use Aperture 3 with my M9 DNGs and I never use sharpening, only Levels or Curves. Am I missing something? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted January 24, 2011 Share #11 Posted January 24, 2011 Being the root cause of this thread, there are a few points I want to make. The post in the M9 FAQ that Muizen refers to is not aimed at the professionals amongst us. Given the competitive nature of their work they are -or should be- totally aware of the quality level their clientele demands, and have the relevant knowledge. I meant my writing for amateurs, beginners and maybe semi-pros who may be unaware of the whole issue. Being amateur gives us the luxurious position of having just one "customer" to please- ourselves. If you're happy as you are, just disregard and carry on. So what I did was to make a summary of the generally accepted best practice of sharpening, a kind of golden standard. The whole subject is complicated and convoluted - I simplified to an extent that most regular photographers need - not more. (Digressing - sharpening does not make your image sharper - you are only manipulating local contrast to create an appearance of sharpness) Even if you don't wish to sharpen according to this summary, I think one should at least know the techniques exist - and determine what level of quality satisfies your needs. I think the outline I gave is as simple and easy as is compatible with optimum quality - and I think that is exactly what we bought our Leicas for. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted January 24, 2011 Share #12 Posted January 24, 2011 Interesting... I use Aperture 3 with my M9 DNGs and I never use sharpening, only Levels or Curves. Am I missing something? Errrm...-yes Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Fines Posted January 24, 2011 Share #13 Posted January 24, 2011 Hi, There are lots of ways to sharpen images. While I used to do it via layers / masks in PS I've really come to like the Nik sharpening software. Optimal Image Sharpening in a Photoshop Plug-In That being said, I think the best advice would be to pick a technique (be in in PS, LR, Aperture, Jaap's , Nik, whatever) and then practice with it. Use it. Get comfortable with what it does and what slight variations in the settings do. While there will be an initial learning curve it will soon become a much easier process. A well sharpened image looks much better than an under- or over-sharpened one. Might seem a bother, but well worth the time investment to get a handle on. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BerndReini Posted January 24, 2011 Share #14 Posted January 24, 2011 I feel that if my photos would need the above extensive pp, I should delete these and next time try to be a better photographer. There is something valuable in this otherwise somewhat naive statement: I can see whether a photograph is good or not almost immediately judging from a compressed web-sized JPEG file that hasn't had any post-processing applied to it. I also believe that you cannot turn a bad photograph into a good one with even the most extensive post-processing. However, I would recommend that even if you don't understand them, you just try the above mentioned steps on one of your good photographs. I think you might be surprised how nicely an already good photograph can be improved. Post-processing is no different from darkroom work. Ansel Adams was the extreme, but many photographers tried to understand the darkroom process. If you were the kind of photographer that gave his film to a 2 hour lab and was happy with the results than I agree, you don't need any of these techniques. If you think an already good photograph deserves the best final output possible, then Photoshop should become a part of your hobby. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shade Posted January 24, 2011 Share #15 Posted January 24, 2011 The "simplest" and "laziest" step you can take to sharpen your image(s) is through UNSHARP MASK in your Photoshop (assuming you're using it), and slide it to your liking. And that's it. The result may not be as great as Jaap or the others have mentioned, but hey, for those pictures you just want to give out or print very small sizes or just for web use, then I don't think it's that bad. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
k-hawinkler Posted January 24, 2011 Share #16 Posted January 24, 2011 Hi Jaap, Don't I get automatically some level of sharpening in LR3 or PS CS5 if I don't change the default settings? Thanks, K-H. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
msk2193 Posted January 24, 2011 Share #17 Posted January 24, 2011 Muizen, The nature of raw capture has always resulted in soft edges, and will require some sharpening, especially for printing. One of the Adobe engineers who worked on several verisons of Photoshop sat me through their thought process and it is quite reasonable. Sharpening was divided into three seperate steps - remember ti was not designed for photographers! First for large areas of different contrast there is the Unsharp Mask under filters. This is followed by the sharpening of smaller lines of contrast done through the steps described above by creatign a duplicate layer, then going to filters > other > high pass filter, then blending to overlay. Now you flatten the layers and finally to sharpen the smallest areas like hair, you again go to filters > smart sharpen. Lightroom makes it much easier by having sliders that work quite well. My favorite way in Photoshop lately has been using Nik software's Viveza and their "structure" slider in localized areas. Then I only "sharpen for output" if I send it to the HP printer. Not much need to sharpen for the web after any of the aobve steps. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muizen Posted January 24, 2011 Author Share #18 Posted January 24, 2011 Muizen...... You don't tell us what platform you are using (Mac/PC)..... or what software you have access to..... Thighslapper: I use a PC with XP and Lightroom 3.3 and PS CS3 if needed. If I consider this useful I will use the sharpening function of LR3 at the end of post processing, but have learned to be careful in applying too much sharpening. The results I obtain in LR are satisfying . I like to try shooting photos that do please me and I want to avoid spending much time in pp. I have become somewhat frustrated by forum members telling me that the work flow that Jaapv developed is easy to apply! It is a pity that I am not capable of applying same, because I might be missing fine opportunities for further improvement of my photos? All of this does not means that I consider Jaaps work unimportant, certainly not! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shootist Posted January 24, 2011 Share #19 Posted January 24, 2011 Just want to add my .02 I find sharpening for screen viewing and posting to webpages to be different then sharpening for prints. I find printing usually needs more sharpening. But in the end it is totally subjective. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tobey bilek Posted January 24, 2011 Share #20 Posted January 24, 2011 JPEG pics are sharpened right from the camera if you set it to do so. They can not be optimum because it depends on the size of print, media,( glossy, matt, web) subject matter and few other considerations. This would be like sending film to the drugstore for prints and turning all over to them. Nothing wrong in that should you not want to be involved. But you bought a Leica presumably because you are interested in optimum results. That means do it yourself, best from a raw file, or turn it over to a prolab like AiProLab.com. They tell me not to sharpen at all. Their computer with the assistence of a $50,000 program from Kodak will optimize the sharpening for the media, size print, and laser printer in use. So far it has worked fine. Real World Sharpening is the best book out there to understand what is going on. $35 at Amazon. With Lightroom or Photoshop, sharpen one print and sync the setting to others. Or if a complicated sharpening series of steps is required, then write an action to speed it up. If you wish to apply the action to many photos, then use the image processor in PS to do it. Takes but a few seconds. Make the action resize the print to final size at the same time. You really need to make a PS master will color and density correction and save a MASTER from which all subsequent prints are made anyway. Save the master in TIFF or .psd format. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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