karl101 Posted January 23, 2011 Share #1 Posted January 23, 2011 Advertisement (gone after registration) Hello, I was wondering, on my m8.2 would this Leica Macro Adapter work well with the Summicron 90mm rather than the Elmar 90mm that Leica state its for? Thanks Karl Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted January 23, 2011 Posted January 23, 2011 Hi karl101, Take a look here Macro Adapter and Summicron 90mm?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
wda Posted January 23, 2011 Share #2 Posted January 23, 2011 Karl, I don't see why not. Of course the engraved settings would not be visible. On the 90mm Macro lens you have two sets of focusing and aperture setting markings, but you should be able to work with it. I have not tried it though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wattsy Posted January 23, 2011 Share #3 Posted January 23, 2011 I doubt that you could focus accurately using the rangefinder with that combination but it would work in principle (the macro adapter is only a glorified extension tube). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoppyman Posted January 23, 2011 Share #4 Posted January 23, 2011 Karl, no it will not work, sorry:) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
karl101 Posted January 23, 2011 Author Share #5 Posted January 23, 2011 Karl, no it will not work, sorry:) Can you say why? Thanks Karl. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoppyman Posted January 23, 2011 Share #6 Posted January 23, 2011 Karl, don't worry, you are not the first person to think of this:) (I have the Macro Elmar 90 and attachment). I think that the first problem is that the Summicron is designed with a minimum focus distance of one metre whereas the Elmar goes down to 770mm. The adapter works over the range 500mm to 760mm. The focus cam profile for the rangefinder is going to be all wrong and the framing won't work either. You can fit other M lenses into the adapter and they must be focsable at some point, you just won't be able to tell where that is and estimating won't work when you have no tolerances DoF. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ho_co Posted January 24, 2011 Share #7 Posted January 24, 2011 Advertisement (gone after registration) Geoff is correct. The Macro Adapter works only with the 90 Macro. He mentioned the optical reasons for this; there's also a physical reason: The 90/4 Macro is collapsible. In normal use, the rear of the lens tube bayonets into the focusing mount. To use the macro adapter, you mount the adapter to the body, then collapse the lens and bayonet the rear of the focusing tube into the macro adapter. Since the 90/2 isn't collapsible and doesn't have a tube designed to fit the macro adapter, there's no way to get it to fit. Some earlier 90/2's and 2.8's had removable heads. There were adapters made to mount those lens heads to the Visoflex, but none of them will work with the Macro Adapter. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoppyman Posted January 24, 2011 Share #8 Posted January 24, 2011 95% true Howard;) Unlike with the BOOWU-M and the collapsible Summicron 50, the collapsible tube of the Macro Elmar 90 M does not have its own (smaller) bayonet. The tube does not collapse rearward past the normal bayonet flange. Indeed, if it did you could not safely collapse it when fitted to M8/9 camera or macro adapter. It is important to note that this problem exists with older collapsible lenses. The rear bayonet flange of the adapter fits the body and the front of the adapter duplicates the camera body bayonet recess. The adapter front bayonet has a roller (like the body has) to engage the focus cam and a precise extension to the rear to then engage the normal roller in the body. The Macro Elmar 90 M only focuses correctly when it is extended, on or off the macro adapter (although it will work collapsed on a VISOFLEX if you want to experiment). That is attaching it via the bayonet, not removing the head which DOES NOT come off When you fit the Macro Elmar 90 M, it must be fitted upside down (and it has a second focus scale from .5m to .76m that you need). Other M lenses fitted will engage (upside-down too) and the rangefinder will operate. Sadly for the OP it will just not focus (or frame) correctly. ps yes I tried it for you;) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
karl101 Posted January 24, 2011 Author Share #9 Posted January 24, 2011 Thanks for the information, very helpful. I went to the camera shop this lunchtime and was told that the elmar-90 with the macro adapter won't be available to buy new for at least 8 months. Karl. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ho_co Posted January 24, 2011 Share #10 Posted January 24, 2011 Geoff-- Thanks for the correction. I only saw the lens once, when it first came out; I remembered having to invert it and thought that was a neat idea. Obviously, I blew it on the lens tube bayonet. I see what you say, looking at the Leica images of it. But tell me this: In another thread, someone said he dumped his 90 Macro because the lens tube didn't lock in place, but could easily be bumped out of position. Someone else responded that the lens locked into its focusing mount just like a number of Leica lens hoods, by twisting. That's the bayonet mechanism I thought I was describing. Karl-- No one can predict specific delivery dates for Leica products, not even Leica. My recommendation: Check with other dealers to see if you can find it. If you can't, choose a dealer you like and put it on order. It may be 8 months or a year or 6 weeks, depending on whether the dealer already has it on order and where your name comes in the list. Annoying, certainly, but it's the way Leica works, and always has been. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
adan Posted January 24, 2011 Share #11 Posted January 24, 2011 The goggles of the Macro Adapter change the geometry of the rangefinder. The Macro 90 lens has two focusing cams (or at least two different surfaces machined onto one cam) - one on the top and one of the bottom. By mounting the lens (as required) upside down on the adapter, the "bottom" cam becomes the "top" cam, and engages the rangefinder, driving the RF's new geometry to work at close distances. Since no other 90mm M lenses have the dual cam (surface)s, none of them except the Macro can be used with the adapter (except perhaps trial-and-error focusing, while chimping between exposures). It is similar to the Dual range Summicron 50mm, except that the Summicron had an extended focusing range built-in (enabled by mounting goggles, with a stepped cam that accounted for the changed RF geometry) - rather than a separate extension tube and having unmounted and flipped. As mentioned, the collapsing barrel has nothing to do with focus capbilities - it is simply to allow the lens to store more compactly when not in use, no different in purpose than other collapsible Leica 50s and 90s. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ho_co Posted January 25, 2011 Share #12 Posted January 25, 2011 Excellent explanation, Andy. Could you or Geoff also address the question from my previous post? That is, does the lens lock into the focusing mount? And if so, how? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoppyman Posted January 25, 2011 Share #13 Posted January 25, 2011 Howard when the forward section is extended you rotate it until you get the aperture reference point where it will be top centre after you twist the assembly to lock. Unlocking only requires a small rotation in the opposite direction. Yes you could unlock it by accident if you held the forward section wrongly. There is not an external latch to disengage, if that makes it clearer. Simply works like the extendable hoods...pull twist...untwist... push. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
geoffreyg Posted January 26, 2011 Share #14 Posted January 26, 2011 To answer your question - the Macro adapter and the 90 work very well together. It is a carefully engineered system, and it functions nicely. But I couldn't figure out how best to use it. It really isn't for handholding (too close, too much shake), so its tripod oriented. And it works if you have no other solutions available. In the end, an SLR solution seemed like a better answer. So - well engineered, functions well, but make sure you have a need for it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
luigi bertolotti Posted January 26, 2011 Share #15 Posted January 26, 2011 My recommendation: Check with other dealers to see if you can find it. If you can't, choose a dealer you like and put it on order. It may be 8 months or a year or 6 weeks, depending on whether the dealer already has it on order and where your name comes in the list. Annoying, certainly, but it's the way Leica works, and always has been. 15 days ago, a dealer in my town had one on his shelf... lens only (new, boxed), no the macro adapter... don't know if is still there. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoppyman Posted January 26, 2011 Share #16 Posted January 26, 2011 You meant to say that the Macro Elmar 90 and its macro adapter work well together. To answer your question - the Macro adapter and the 90 work very well together. It is a carefully engineered system, and it functions nicely. But I couldn't figure out how best to use it. It really isn't for handholding (too close, too much shake), so its tripod oriented. And it works if you have no other solutions available. In the end, an SLR solution seemed like a better answer. So - well engineered, functions well, but make sure you have a need for it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
marknorton Posted January 27, 2011 Share #17 Posted January 27, 2011 It's correct that the Macro Adapter will only work with the 90mm Elmar - as Andy says, it's mounted upside down to present an alternative profile focussing cam to the camera and distance scale to the user. Try to do the same with the Summicron and something will get bent or scratched. It's an expensive macro solution and only goes down to 3:1 (or should that be 1:3?) - in other words, the image projected onto the sensor is 1/3 life size where a true macro solution should go down to 1:1. For me, it's an engineering curiosity, but for the price, you can buy a Nikon D700, their fab 60mm f2.8 true macro lens AND a ring flash to light your way. I have it (and seem to remember the macro adapter has a different "lens" code to the lens itself) but rarely use it. I think it's a product which exists because when asked "Why?", the answer was "Because we can!". Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoppyman Posted January 28, 2011 Share #18 Posted January 28, 2011 There is an outer cam (on the chromed bayonet flange) and a long inner cam with unique shape. A notched surface with slope in two directions. That unique shape is why no other lens can focus correectly. Some will actually fit, others will physically not. Either way it is academic. The macro adapter does have a different code than the lens. As far as I can detect it only affects EXIF not any correction, which would be logical for a short tele macro that is very well corrected and designed for close range performance any way. The Macro adapter does several things. It mounts magnifiers for the rangefinder and viewfinder. It is a spacer (extension tube). It transmits the roller position rearward the precise amount needed. It rotates the engagement point 180 degrees (which engages the opposite reverse angled end of the (V shaped) cam. That reverse angled area only covers the range from .5m to .76m. It is not a mirrored clone of the normal surface. So it is ingenious, complex to design and machine precisely and expensive. It has a limited functional range too. It is capable of superb results within that limited range however. It is true that a dedicated system with a dSLR can provide more versatility for less money. That is really beside the point though. You might level that argument against M cameras for many functions. The OP was really interested in discussing what was possible with his M equpment. Fair enough in this Forum Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Henry Posted January 29, 2011 Share #19 Posted January 29, 2011 Hi Karl and all of you, Here is a picture taken with my M8+macroadapter+ 90mm macro It is a beautiful set enough for me to make the macro and not bulky like the bellows Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Regards Henry Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Regards Henry ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/142316-macro-adapter-and-summicron-90mm/?do=findComment&comment=1572580'>More sharing options...
Doc Henry Posted January 29, 2011 Share #20 Posted January 29, 2011 ...and the complete set that I use for macro photography with the M8 and M9 Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Henry Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Henry ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/142316-macro-adapter-and-summicron-90mm/?do=findComment&comment=1572588'>More sharing options...
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