"B" setting sluggish in 11f.

[miss_emma_jade]

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hi again everyone. I own a little leica 11f, and tonight im messing with it and find the "B" setting is very slow to close again after the button is released.all the other speeds work fine, except this one. I wonder if this is something that may come right after use, or does it need work?

 

i rarley ever would use that on any camera. but would be nice to have it working propperly.

 

Does anyone know anything about this?

 

EMMA

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[jc_braconi]

as often the answer is in the question

 

This come because this position B is rarely used nowaday, and the lubricant is surely dried or gone,

so try to practice it for awhile, sometimes after use it will function again,

if not and if you really want every speeds accurate, your IIf 'ld be CLA 'ed.

[doubice]

Miss Emma,

 

I would be surprised if “all other speeds worked fine” with the shutter at ‘B’ lagging its closing curtain. The speed of the curtains is controlled by spring tension on the shutter roller. And - the speed at which the shutter curtains travel across the film plane is the same, no matter which shutter speed is selected. What changes, is the delay of the second curtain (at slow speeds, which the IIf does not have….) and the width of the slit as the curtains travel, at faster shutter speeds.

 

With all due respect signore Braconi, the lubricant does not change its viscosity when the shutter is used at ‘B’. The shutter runs using the same lubricant (or lack of it) at all shutter speeds, including 'B'.

 

So - if the second curtain is slow to close at the ‘B’ setting, it is most probably slow at all shutter speeds, resulting in uneven exposure across the film plane. I would recommend a CLA (Clean, Lube and Adjust).

 

Best,

 

Jan

[jc_braconi]

With all due respect signore Braconi, the lubricant does not change its viscosity when the shutter is used at ‘B’. The shutter runs using the same lubricant (or lack of it) at all shutter speeds, including 'B'.

Jan

Ed anche si non e vero e detto bene

[doubice]

Ed anche si non e vero e detto bene

 

Bohužel italština není jeden z pěti jazyků v kterých jsem zběhlý..

 

Jan

[luigi bertolotti]

Ed anche si non e vero e detto bene

 

Non sono io... ... Jan, you ought to know that a real French hates to be adressed to as "Signore" as we rough Italians do...

[jc_braconi]

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Bohužel italština není jeden z pěti jazyků v kterých jsem zběhlý..

 

Jan

 

"V každém případě, pokud to není pravda, to je dobře řečeno,"

 

 

 

"Anyway if it is not true it is well told":D

[miss_emma_jade]

let me explain. the speeds 75, 100, 200, 500 are working pretty close to correctly, as ive used them quite a lot, and taken good pictures with them.

 

the 50, 25, and the "B" setting may be slow, but the only one that noticable is the "B" setting, the delay when you release the button is about 1-3 seconds. sometimes you need to touch the film winder to release it at all.

 

i think it will get a cla soon, but I was asking if this is going to free up with time, thanks guys, sorry to cause upset, i think this shutter works differently to the old film plane shutters ive worked on, ie my Graflex speed graphic, that has different openings in the curtain, and the shutter releases the same speed right thru all the times.

 

this doesnt work like that, and it kicks along faster or slower depending on what speed is selected.

 

so i draw the following conclusions., the shutter is sticking on the B setting. in any other camera i would CLA it myself, but im reluctant to touch this.

 

better find a repair agent i guess.

[doubice]

..."Bohužel italština není jeden z pěti jazyků v kterých jsem zběhlý....."

 

...."Unfortunately, Italian is not among the five languages in which I am proficient"....

 

"V každém případě, pokud to není pravda, to je dobře řečeno,"

 

"Anyway if it is not true it is well told":D

 

Yes, Google toolbar is a Godsend...! I did indeed understand your post with Mr. Google's help and my reply was just to confuse the hell out of everybody.. :D

 

Ciao,

 

Jan (Giovanni)

[doubice]

......the 50, 25, and the "B" setting may be slow, but the only one that noticable is the "B" setting, the delay when you release the button is about 1-3 seconds. sometimes you need to touch the film winder to release it at all.

 

i think it will get a cla soon, but I was asking if this is going to free up with time, thanks guys, sorry to cause upset, i think this shutter works differently to the old film plane shutters ive worked on, ie my Graflex speed graphic, that has different openings in the curtain, and the shutter releases the same speed right thru all the times.

 

this doesnt work like that, and it kicks along faster or slower depending on what speed is selected.

 

so i draw the following conclusions., the shutter is sticking on the B setting. in any other camera i would CLA it myself, but im reluctant to touch this.

 

better find a repair agent i guess.

 

Miss Emma,

 

The Graflex focal plane shutter works basically on the same principle as the Leica shutter; it is however, like David and Goliath....

 

What you are describing - the delay in the second curtain's closing and sluggishness at 1/25s and 1/50s indeed indicates need for cleaning and re-lubrication. I would not be surprised if at 1/500s your IIf shutter was not running perfecly evenly either. I assume your IIf is an earlier version without the 1/1000s setting and 1/500s is the fastest speed.

 

No upset caused at all - all was in multiligual jest....

 

Best,

 

Jan

[giordano]

The Graflex focal plane shutter works basically on the same principle as the Leica shutter

 

Only in the sense that they are both focal plane shutters. The Graflex/Graphic shutter has one blind with several "slits" - rectangular apertures the width of the frame, with heights ranging from 1/8 in. to the height of the frame. To set the shutter speed, you look it up in a table and read off the width of the slit you need and the spring tension setting. So at any given shutter speed you have a fixed-width slit moving (hopefully) at one of several constant speeds.

 

The Leica shutter has two blinds that move independently but (hopefully) always at the same speed, leaving a slit of varying width between them. The knob you turn to set the shutter speed controls (indirectly) the time lag between the first blind and the second. (At speeds 1/30 or shorter it works by letting the first blind move a certain distance before the second is released; at 1/15 and longer there's a geared escapement to create the additional delay.)

 

Also, with the Graflex/Graphic you have to cap the lens, insert a dark slide or otherwise protect the film from the light while you set the shutter. That really makes one take care.

 

Anyway, to Emma's problem. For B, with the Graflex/Graphic you choose the "O" slit which is the same size as the entire gate. As far as i can remember you start the exposure by removing the lens cap or raising the mirror (on a Graflex) and end it by letting the shutter run down. The Leica's totally different: with the IIf set to B, the first blind is released as normal but there's a little lever or lug that prevents the second blind being released while the shutter button is pressed. If this component (I can't remember just where it goes) is sticky Emma will get the symptoms she describes - normal-seeming behaviour on the short speeds but unpredictable delay in closing the shutter on B.

 

The proper cure is a CLA. Working the camera may help in the short term.

[jhild]

The second shutter blind on a SM Leica is released by a rotating lever which itself is set to it´s position

by the shutterspeed knob. Depending on the selected shutterspeed it takes more or less time until the

second shutterblind is released, this is how the slit is made that makes the different shutterspeeds. The

shutterblinds themself are always travelling at the same speed.

If you select "B" the rotating lever releasing the second shutterblind is stopped mechanically until you

"release the trigger". I CLA all my Leicas myself and have made the experience that slow travel will not always end up in wrong exposure but what you describe with what happens at "B" indicates the need

of a CLA.

Please note that my above description of how the shutter works is very rough, just to give an idea. I think there are better detailed descriptions on the internet.

 

Jo