ziggurat Posted January 13, 2011 Share #1 Posted January 13, 2011 Advertisement (gone after registration) Hi chaps, I just got my first M8 a week or so ago and find that I am encouraged by it to work full manual. Prior to this I have used aperture priority with Dig1, Dig2, Dig3 and 5DMk2. What I am trying to comprehend is the situation regarding center weighted metering with a lock (aperture priority), and center weighted no lock (full manual) Is it the case that a metering lock becomes superfluous in full manual? Or are there occasions when it becomes appropriate to switch into aperture priority to use the lock? Is this why the M7 exists? Would appreciate your thoughts and experiences in this regard. Cheers Johnny Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted January 13, 2011 Posted January 13, 2011 Hi ziggurat, Take a look here Differences / uses - AP and FM when metering. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
earleygallery Posted January 13, 2011 Share #2 Posted January 13, 2011 A metering lock in AE mode is generally so that you can quickly meter and recompose the shot, for example if you wanted to include a lot of sky, under AE the image would be underexposed so you would point the camera to a more level position, lock then recompose. If you are using fully manual exposure you would simply meter and set the aperture/shutter speed which would then be fixed no matter where you pointed the camera. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ziggurat Posted January 13, 2011 Author Share #3 Posted January 13, 2011 Thanks James, So what you are saying is that the lock function is a way of overriding the cameras guess on shutter speed which is often off. Yes, that chimes with my experience. It's what I'm used to doing. So it does not matter that full manual is centre weighted metering without a lock. The metering could be anywhere in theory because you have chosen it, and can change it if it is not suitable for the scene by under or over exposing according to the meter reading. In the end the two exposures would be the same and look the same. Therefore I may as well go with full manual which is easier on the M8 because I don't have to dig around in the EV menu. And it's fun. Right? Johnny Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stunsworth Posted January 13, 2011 Share #4 Posted January 13, 2011 The M8/9 don't have centre weighted meters. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ziggurat Posted January 13, 2011 Author Share #5 Posted January 13, 2011 Hi Steve, Could you elaborate? According to the M8 instruction manual: p105 "Metering On the Leica M8, exposure metering for the available ambient light is done through the lens with the working aperture and with strongly concentrated center weighted characteristic." Regards Johnny Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
doubice Posted January 13, 2011 Share #6 Posted January 13, 2011 Johnny, ..."strongly concentrated center weighted characteristic"... is 'germanspeak' for "between a spotmeter and center weighted". In other words, not a true spotmeter but not a true center weighted system either; in-between. Best, Jan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ziggurat Posted January 13, 2011 Author Share #7 Posted January 13, 2011 Advertisement (gone after registration) Hi Jan, Is there some specific reference material you have for this? In the instructions for the Digilux 3 the Germans don't seem to have any trouble defining Center Weighted as " This is the method used to concentrate on the subject in the center of the screen while also considering the rest of the screen". What you seem to be describing is what they call " Multiple: This is the method in which the camera measures the most suitable exposures by judging the allocation of brightness on the whole screen automatically." Multiple is what is "usually recommended" and that is what I use on the Digilux 3. Perhaps the two terms have become confused in translation? I certainly am. Regards Johnny Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicoleica Posted January 13, 2011 Share #8 Posted January 13, 2011 I would say that Leica are correct in their description of the M metering pattern. It IS centre-weighted, but very heavily centre-weighted, almost to the point of being a very fat spot. (As against a normal fat-spot which may sometimes be found on the sensor. ) I found that in auto, the M8 tends to slightly over-expose in many situations, but only very slightly. Perhaps it is because I grew up in the days when centre-weighted metering was about as good as it got for ttl-metering, and I learned how to get the best from it. My main use of the exposure lock was for holding the reading when my subject was off centre, or strongly back-lit. In those situations I will meter on the main subject, lock the exposure, and then re-compose. For manual exposure it makes no difference at all, as you set the camera entirely as you wish. UNLESS you have Auto-ISO turned on. In this case, use of the lock may be necessary, as I believe that otherwise the camera may still affect the exposure by adjusting the ISO setting. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ziggurat Posted January 13, 2011 Author Share #9 Posted January 13, 2011 Thank you Nicole, You confirm what I am coming to understand. I just like to get a clear understanding of where I am from one camera to another, one method to another. A question which is at the back of my mind now, is why with the Digilux 3 Leica would recommend using 'Multiple' metering mode for most situations, and yet with the M8 it is clearly built around centre weighted. In the end I'll use what it has and make pictures, but it's nice to have a mental picture of the thinking behind things. It can affect the choices you make. Kind Regards Johnny Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
earleygallery Posted January 14, 2011 Share #10 Posted January 14, 2011 Thanks James, So what you are saying is that the lock function is a way of overriding the cameras guess on shutter speed which is often off. No, not what I'm saying! The shutter will be spot on for the meter reading that has been taken. OK, lets say you were taking a photo of someone standing in front of a window (daylight outside, no light inside), to one side, chances are that a 'normal' AE reading taken as you compose the shot would be underexposed as the camera would expose for the brighter scene outside. You could move in close, take a reading off the person and lock it, then move back and compose and take the shot, or you can switch to manual an make the necessary adjustment that way, either taking the reading close up, or using your own judgement, or a spot meter. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
earleygallery Posted January 14, 2011 Share #11 Posted January 14, 2011 A question which is at the back of my mind now, is why with the Digilux 3 Leica would recommend using 'Multiple' metering mode for most situations, and yet with the M8 it is clearly built around centre weighted. The Digilux is completely different. The Leica M manual shows - I think - a series of diagrams, illustrating the metering area. If you look inside the camera you'll see one of the shutter blades is grey - that's what the meter is reading off, which will also give you some idea of the metering zone. It probably works fine for most general situations, you just need to think about the lighting conditions, and what your camera will be reading, whether you use it on AE or manual. I always advocate the use of an incident light meter as well, especially for 'tricky' lightling. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ziggurat Posted January 14, 2011 Author Share #12 Posted January 14, 2011 Yes James, I do get you, I should not of said "off". I accept that the meter will get it right but that I adjust the EV as necessary. I'm just trying to satisfy myself that both ways will lead to the same outcome ie print. And there are not specific pictorial reasons why one would choose one method over another in a given situation. Unfortunately I can't do any tests right now as my M8 has gone to Solms for red line fixing. I notice that the MP has no Aperture Priority function which seems to imply that it is another working method rather than a tool leading to a different pictorial outcome. Thanks for your input Johnny http://www.johnewalter.co.uk Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicoleica Posted January 14, 2011 Share #13 Posted January 14, 2011 Hi Johnny, The Digilux-3, and many other cameras suggest multiple/multi-zone/matrix metering for normal use, as these cameras have a much more sophisticated metering system than the M cameras. Most of these offer multiple options for metering too. In the M camera, you don't have these choices. Your only choice is 'centre-weighted'. But this is a simple and reliable system, once you learn how to master it. I think that the manual explains it quite well. It consists of a single metering cell that reads light reflected off of the centre of the shutter curtain. No multiple cells, or database look-ups, just a simple weighted reading. This may sound very basic these days, but it is reliable, and very predictable in how it reacts. I find that these systems are more enjoyable to use, and assist creativity. It works in the same way as my 1960's and 70's film cameras do too. I hope that you enjoy using your M. They are lovely cameras to use. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stunsworth Posted January 14, 2011 Share #14 Posted January 14, 2011 According to the M8 instruction manual: p105 "Metering On the Leica M8, exposure metering for the available ambient light is done through the lens with the working aperture and with strongly concentrated center weighted characteristic." Regardless of what Leica say it isn't centre weighted as it doesn't meter from the whole frame. As has been mentioned earlier it is more like a fat spot meter. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ziggurat Posted January 14, 2011 Author Share #15 Posted January 14, 2011 Hi Nicole, The M8 feels very refreshing. I learned in the seventies on a Prinzflex SLR my dad bought me. I had a long break from photography and came back to it with the Digilux1. As soon as I got the M it took me back to the simplicity I enjoyed as a teenager. Cheers Johnny Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardM8 Posted January 14, 2011 Share #16 Posted January 14, 2011 Slightly OT but to dail in + or - EV, who uses the shutter release & dail to do this? This is on the 8.2, not sure if the M8 has this possibility too. While the idea behind it is very good, I find it very difficult to use. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pklein Posted January 14, 2011 Share #17 Posted January 14, 2011 Richard: I agree. I usually have the M8 on minus 1/3 EV, or 0 EV if I'm in available light situations with light sources in the picture. If I have to do much more than that, or to adjust from shot to shot, I just switch to manual. That's easier for me that to fool with the menus. The "half-press hutter release, turn dial" method is just too awkward. Sometimes it's easier to use the "computer" between ones ears rather than try to second-guess the computer in the camera, especially for those of use old enough to have shot manual and match-needle cameras much of our lives. --Peter Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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