phancj Posted January 13, 2011 Share #21 Â Posted January 13, 2011 Advertisement (gone after registration) In all fairness the GXR, nex all has APS-C sensors, and all are faster than the X1. Â But I find the X1 images the most compelling and since the AF speed is adequate for my kind of shots, I am happy with it. Â But truth is leica could have and should have made it as fast as say the gxr at least, but they didnt. Â Having said that, for everything I buy, I decide if it is useable and whether I enjoy using it. If not I go for something else. I am also certain complaining will not help the X1 become faster, nor will it force leica to improve the camera faster, they appear to have their own sense of time and urgency and nothing we say appears to have any impact. if it has, I will join in the screaming....and am sure the X1 will have a firmware upgrade 2-3 months instead of not haivng any after almost a year of launch. Call me pragmatic... Â Buying anything is always a case of compromises since the cameras are not custom built to our individual needs. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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jsrockit Posted January 13, 2011 Share #22  Posted January 13, 2011 And it never came up to you that focussing on a sensor eighth the size of the X1 might only be eighth as challenging. I am not saying Leica couldn't do better. But don't compare apples and oranges… Mike  Perhaps that is my naivety with regard to camera design (regarding Canon P&S vs.), but since Ricoh and Sony have done it with compact APS-C cameras, there is still no excuse for the X1's slow AF. To make an excuse for it just seems detrimental IMO. Why be satisfied with a flawed camera if Leica can do better? We spent a lot of cash for a camera that does not perform, as Carlos has pointed out, as advertised. Now, believe me, I like it anyway. However, Leica can do a lot better with regard to speed. I hope this vaporware we keep hearing about really does the trick. If it does, I will sing the X1's praises even more than I already do. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsrockit Posted January 13, 2011 Share #23 Â Posted January 13, 2011 Buying anything is always a case of compromises since the cameras are not custom built to our individual needs. Â Very true...and I was fully aware of its limitations when I bought it. However, I'm getting greedy now that I've heard the rumors of the firmware speeding it up significantly. It will make this good camera a truly great one. Why is that an unrealistic expectation? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lightwrangler Posted January 13, 2011 Share #24 Â Posted January 13, 2011 Very true...and I was fully aware of its limitations when I bought it. However, I'm getting greedy now that I've heard the rumors of the firmware speeding it up significantly. It will make this good camera a truly great one. Why is that an unrealistic expectation? Â As long as the greed does not baffle you it's not unrealistic. Just impatient. Â BTW: The Ricoh - as far as i know - also needed a firmware-update to get the AF fastened up. The Sony needed new firmware to be a usable camera at all. Â Mike Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsrockit Posted January 13, 2011 Share #25 Â Posted January 13, 2011 BTW: The Ricoh - as far as i know - also needed a firmware-update to get the AF fastened up. The Sony needed new firmware to be a usable camera at all. Â True, but they both did it within a decent timeframe. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
h00ligan Posted January 14, 2011 Share #26 Â Posted January 14, 2011 I have to agree. It's time Leica... again, if you are adding too many features, release incrementally imo. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
phancj Posted January 14, 2011 Share #27 Â Posted January 14, 2011 Advertisement (gone after registration) I am not making excuses for leica, but honestly think it is a technologically more challenged company IMO, for software and electronics gadgetry it cannot be put in the same league as say sony, canon, etc. Their forte is lens and mechanical camera design. Â Look at their boo boos, IR contamination in M8, I think the company is still "feeling" its way around the digital camera realm. Not to say the current crop of digital cameras from the firm is not good, they are great, but many have found them "wanting" and inadequate in some way. Â Look at the stark difference between the nex and the X1. The sony has all the modern gadgetry squeezed into that tiny body, but has that terrible lens design. The X1 has almost nothing inside apart from a sensor, shutter, and image processing chip, but that lens and the integrated whole makes it take great photos. The buffer of the X1 probably is the same as my first sony digital camera haha back then I just didnt feel the lag. Â Of course I wish for a lightning fast X1. And willing to pay leica (#*&$^&$* dollars for it. Â We all know leica charge a hefty premium on each and every [product, but am willing (barely) to pay that premium for that edge in IQ. The day that edge disappears will spell the end of the company. I am somewhat glad it is trying its best to preserve the film-like look in its digital cameras. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lightwrangler Posted January 14, 2011 Share #28 Â Posted January 14, 2011 Right to the chase, phancj Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsrockit Posted January 14, 2011 Share #29 Â Posted January 14, 2011 I am somewhat glad it is trying its best to preserve the film-like look in its digital cameras. Â I hear that... I just wish I didn't need to use it like I'm using a 4x5 camera... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NZDavid Posted January 14, 2011 Share #30 Â Posted January 14, 2011 I am not making excuses for leica, but honestly think it is a technologically more challenged company IMO, for software and electronics gadgetry it cannot be put in the same league as say sony, canon, etc. Their forte is lens and mechanical camera design.... I am somewhat glad it is trying its best to preserve the film-like look in its digital cameras. Â Generally, I agree. "Technologically challenged"? It depends on your definition. If you mean technology as in more and more software applications, then yes, probably; if you look at the broader meaning of the word "technology" as in making something involving human skill and craftsmanship, then I think Leica is still a leader. Â I think the whole Leica philosophy is very different: concentration on the essentials and top quality, as opposed to cramming in more and more features. That's not to say every product is perfect in every way, but I still support the vision. Â I think in this age of me-too products, people want something a bit special. It still has to perform, though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
h00ligan Posted January 14, 2011 Share #31 Â Posted January 14, 2011 Alright what's the over-under on x1 firmware before the x100 ships? Â If the latter makes an appearance before the former... Leica should be VERY embarrassed. Â The working demo of the x100 hybrid vf was very compelling.. and as much as I am a realist about needing to see iq etc, the x100 is becoming more and more of a tangible thing, and as such my enthusiasm is on the rise. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
phancj Posted January 16, 2011 Share #32  Posted January 16, 2011 Generally, I agree. "Technologically challenged"? It depends on your definition. If you mean technology as in more and more software applications, then yes, probably; if you look at the broader meaning of the word "technology" as in making something involving human skill and craftsmanship, then I think Leica is still a leader. I think the whole Leica philosophy is very different: concentration on the essentials and top quality, as opposed to cramming in more and more features. That's not to say every product is perfect in every way, but I still support the vision.  I think in this age of me-too products, people want something a bit special. It still has to perform, though.  I am looking more at the hardware of the camera minus the lens/sensor. Leica's buffer even for the M9 is not great. The operating aspects of software can be seen as backward, and is definitely not fast even though menu is minimalist. Operating the X1/M9/M8 gives one the impression that the technology is from a few generations back of sony/canon/nikon. But the important aspect to most of us here is primarily IQ, and here the leica cameras really shine.   Alright what's the over-under on x1 firmware before the x100 ships? If the latter makes an appearance before the former... Leica should be VERY embarrassed.  The working demo of the x100 hybrid vf was very compelling.. and as much as I am a realist about needing to see iq etc, the x100 is becoming more and more of a tangible thing, and as such my enthusiasm is on the rise.  Honestly, I wont compare the X1 to the X100. The X100 is too big for my liking and I'd rather buy say an olympus E5 or some smaller DSLR if I were to bring the X100 which is fixed lens 35mm. I like the X1 for its size. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
h00ligan Posted January 16, 2011 Share #33 Â Posted January 16, 2011 Comparing them has nothing to do with my comment. Fuji had a non working sensor less prototype, less than 6 months ago..leica shipped the x1, what, a year ago? Â The comparison is not in the cameras, it is in the advancement speed. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
phancj Posted January 16, 2011 Share #34 Â Posted January 16, 2011 Edward, Â I see...must have read too quickly and answered too... Â I actually think apart from the VF and the retro styling the X100 offers nothing novel.It is nevertheless interesting to note camera makers are now starting to take "the road less travelled"... Â It will even be more interesting to see how leica will approach the X2... Â Exciting times for cameras...2011 supposed to be the year of the fullframe, maybe a FF X2??!! Â That will be great, a fixed lens M9. Small and good. Hopefully weather-sealed too. Â CJ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
h00ligan Posted January 16, 2011 Share #35 Â Posted January 16, 2011 But that would probably ring in at $6000 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
phancj Posted January 17, 2011 Share #36 Â Posted January 17, 2011 Honestly if they weather seal it and make it the same robustness as the film Ms, with a cron 35mm, FF sensor, no issues, I think I will buy it. Almost bought an M9 with the 35 lux anyway, and unlikely I will buy more lenses even if I have bought it. Â But it must be small like the X1 maybe a tad larger, but not heavy and bigger like the M9. One thing that dissuaded me from the M9 was its size, apart from lack of AF. Â Fuji got many things right but the size factor makes it less competitive IMO. IF it were FF and that size I would find it more compelling. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
phancj Posted January 17, 2011 Share #37 Â Posted January 17, 2011 I would pay the price of an M9. It'll be a camera that will be on all my trips, and for a long time, enough to make it worthwhile. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
patrick parker Posted January 17, 2011 Share #38 Â Posted January 17, 2011 once you take the x1 out of your pocket you will need a good 5 seconds to take a picture.a little less if you keep it on manual focus and shoot at infinity, but x1 would be an excellent camera for patient tripod work if it had a better lcd screen. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
h00ligan Posted January 17, 2011 Share #39 Â Posted January 17, 2011 I would pay the price of an M9. It'll be a camera that will be on all my trips, and for a long time, enough to make it worthwhile. Â I think you'd be in a minority that would make the x1 seem mass produced my friend Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
phancj Posted January 18, 2011 Share #40 Â Posted January 18, 2011 With a FF sensor and a leica cron lens I do not see it as pricey compared to say Nikon D3X and canon 1ds mk 3. And if they really managed to squeeze it that small.....it will be great! Â Come to think of it the X1 though pricey as a compact if you look at its innards it has the same sensor as say my D300, so that makes it not too bad since it has a lens and is the same price. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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