yet another lens choice question

[WestMichigan]

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Note: A Light Meter isn't exactly 'Lighting Equipment'.

Well, not in the Colloquial use of that term in the Photographic Community. It is a General type of Photographic Equipment and it's benefit is in being able to have objective measurements of the 'Light' being used to construct the image being recorded by your Lens/Camera setup. There is one in your M8 and there's one in essentially every digital camera extant, full stop. The 'exception' proving the rule being the numerically obscure Digital Backs for Medium & Large Format Cameras.

 

A Light Meter is a Tool, An Instrument, and Is Used to make Photographic Exposure decisions more objective and predictive than simply being derived by exploration and experimentation.

 

Richard in Michigan

[carstenw]

Good info to have Carsten. Thanks for passing it along. I'll have to wander back through the FM Threads again - I haven't visited there in ages.

 

My statement shouldn't be read to say that ZM glass isn't good, by the way, just that it might pay to walk into it with both eyes open, rather than blindly accepting advice (that last part isn't referring to anyone in this thread). For example, if close up performance and a smooth boke is important, the ZM35/2 probably isn't the best choice, and so on. Look at lots of photos before deciding.

 

I also wonder if close focus issues, CA, and such with the Zeiss M Lenses might end up being caused in some manner by the inherent challenges of the Short M Mount Lens to Sensor/Film Plane Specification, by the inherent challenges of close focusing with rangefinders, and the ZM Lenses not being part of the 'firmware' of the M8/M9 'lens correction' programing?

 

The rangefinder cam is more of a mechanical than optical problem, and shouldn't really affect the lens designs too much. The short flange distance is an advantage in optical design, in that you can make lenses which are closer to symmetric for wider lenses. Wide angle lenses are the hardest to correct, as far as I understand, especially when they must be retrofocus designs. The Hasselblad 38 Biogon is one of the best corrected designs for superwides, and Hasselblad had to make an extra short body for it. The constraints in the M system are rather in that they cannot be too long and wide, without cutting off the rangefinder.

[MikeD700]

Hello Clive -

- I was reading a different thread in 'our' M8 Forum and ended up following a link to member "AncientCityPhoto" and a review he did of the Voigtlander 35mm f2.5 Pancake lens. I'd say you might want to give it a gander. He gives the Lens a positive review and from his posted images, I'd have no problem owning one either. BONUS! - The lens is like $400 (U.S.) and apparently was exceptionally well reviewed by Sean Reid, as well. Besides - it's tiny and cute as hell mounted on the camera and we all know how much that improves photos!

- I also must say I feel quite remiss in NOT having suggested Reid Reviews to you earlier. Jeesh. I haven't cobbled together the $$$ for the reasonable membership fee he charges - til my Disability situation is settled, I genuinely am quite poor my friends - but will be definitely joining his site.

 

Anyway the links are:

Review: Voigtlander 35mm f/2.5 Color-Skopar Pan II | Band Photography > Music Photographer > Tony Ventouris > MD DC VA > Panoramic > Portraits

Welcome to ReidReviews

 

Richard in Michigan

 

Beautiful review Richard, beautiful pics, beautiful lens. Quiet an eye opener!

[Clive Murray-White]

Sorry Richard in M re Lightmeter, the Gossen will do me for now I reckon.

 

Carsten: I do have to thank you for the Fred Miranda link, in a way seeing what people do with various lenses with added PP is probably more useful in the end than without it as you could say PP is normal.

 

I wouldn't mind seeing a greater range of M8 Nokton 35/1.2 shots, flickr, almost all by 1 or 2 people. Reid doesn't really let it be 1.2 and I don't remember seeing any on FM etc

 

I liked the AncientCity review too.

 

Keep warm - very funny here today snow down to 1200meters and we're in early summer!!!

[WestMichigan]

Just to be utterly 'pedantic' and make sure credit is delivered where it's due :-)

Member 'AncientCityPhoto' authored the review I linked to, my only role in that truly Beautiful Review is Lovin' the work he did and going to the 'trouble' of linking to it.

 

Richard in Michigan

 

Beautiful review Richard, beautiful pics, beautiful lens. Quiet an eye opener!

[WestMichigan]

Hi Carsten!

excellent advice re:following advice. Kudo's on that point. There's no doubt that no matter how good someone's advice might be or how smart the advice giver might be, as the advisee it's incumbent upon oneself to determine if it's appropriate for one's own situation.

As for my own statement about the 'issues' some folks have when comparing Rangefinder ZM lenses against the ZF/ZE SLR counterparts could have been worded a little better. I was attempting to lay the 'blame' potentially at the feet of the inherent limitations of Rangefinders rather than intrinsically being a fault in the design of the optics themselves.

My bullet points for thinking that are:

• Compared to Film Days, the Architecture of the Digital Imaging Sensors makes them very susceptible to chromatic aberrations, color shifts, and etc, when the Lens 'Drawing' the Image Circle being 'Sensed' is close to the sensor. Rangefinder's have their lenses close to the film/sensor plane by their nature. The problem is More markedly apparent the shorter the focal length of the lens in question. There are a couple of Voigtlander Ultra Wides with Stellar Image Quality when using a Film Camera that are quite hampered when used on Digital Cameras.

• The comparisons between Rangefinder Zeiss Lenses and SLR Zeiss Lenses are, intrinsically, being done by comparing the 'Imaging System' of two Entirely and Utterly Different Cameras. That itself brings oodles of variables to the party all by itself - See Lens Flange Distance Comment Above

• Rangefinder Cameras (reputedly) are susceptible to having focusing accuracy variability when operating at the near limits of the Rangefinder System. Appears to be a confluence of how any particular lens was optically/mechanically designs and the inherent qualities of using a 'secondary' focusing system like a rangefinder rather than the 'image from the lens' type system in an SLR. Not a universal problem at all, just a 'quirk' of RF Systems and potential choices the Engineers made along the way to coming up with a Lens Design.

 

•I'm not 100% certain, but it's my understanding that the Biogon you mention is a lens which is Stunning when used with Film, but Fraught With Problems when mated to a Digital Back due to the shortened lens to sensor plane of it's design tripping over the constraints of the Imaging Sensor Itself.

 

Anyway, I think your advice of 'walking into it with both eyes open' is the BEST Way to Approach ANY Lens Choice in ANY Situation.

 

Not every lens is perfect for every use and for every user!

 

Sincerely

Richard in Michigan

My statement shouldn't be read to say that ZM glass isn't good, by the way, just that it might pay to walk into it with both eyes open, rather than blindly accepting advice (that last part isn't referring to anyone in this thread). For example, if close up performance and a smooth boke is important, the ZM35/2 probably isn't the best choice, and so on. Look at lots of photos before deciding.

 

 

 

The rangefinder cam is more of a mechanical than optical problem, and shouldn't really affect the lens designs too much. The short flange distance is an advantage in optical design, in that you can make lenses which are closer to symmetric for wider lenses. Wide angle lenses are the hardest to correct, as far as I understand, especially when they must be retrofocus designs. The Hasselblad 38 Biogon is one of the best corrected designs for superwides, and Hasselblad had to make an extra short body for it. The constraints in the M system are rather in that they cannot be too long and wide, without cutting off the rangefinder.