Leica SF 58 flash + M9 FAQ (invitation)

[Jerry_R]

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Now, my latest lack of understanding is with fill flash

Just be aware of this:

http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/leica-m9-forum/117967-m9-flash-photography.html#post1252808

[ShotCapture]

Success? I've put together the results of many M9 + SF 58 test shots. Please comment with constructive criticism and suggestions. Thanks to those of you who have contributed to this thread. I hope my directions prove helpful, at least to serve as a basis for discussion, in continuing to clarify how to successfully use the SF 58.

 

LEICA M9 + SF 58 FLASH: Basic Settings:

DIRECT FLASH or Bounce, (semi-automatic):

1. M9 set on “A” (Aperture priority on camera shutter speed dial); and

2. SF 58 set on TTL, (Press SF 58 Menu button, then up/down arrow to TTL).

Begin with no EV exposure compensation set on the SF 58.

Begin with no exposure compensation on the M9.

3. Set F stop, (aperture), on M9 & SF58 flash. (I.e. f/1.4 on lens & f/1.4 on flash). (Press SF58 Menu button, then up/down arrow to f/stop).

4. Shutter speed will be automatically set when using “A” mode on the M9.

5. Set to Auto ISO on the M9 with the ISO button.

6. In the M9 menu set “Auto ISO” and “Auto Slow Sync”, (with a coded lens), to “Lens Dependent”.

7. Set flash sync to “1st curtain” on the M9

8. Set flash to A Zoom, (auto zoom), (with a coded lens). Press SET on the flash until you see zoom and navigate to AZoom. This will only show if the flash and camera are connected and both on.

9. Save your settings in a profile, (optional), on the M9 using “MENU”-“SAVE USERS PROFILE”. You can have a profile for Auto Flash; or Manual, etc. thus making it easy to switch settings. (As soon as you alter any setting the User Profile will return to “- -“, but it can be a starting point for each time you start a shooting session). You can see the profiles by pressing SET when nothing is showing on the LCD.

 

A correct exposure can be judged after a shot by watching +/- clipping on the M9 LCD screen, (set up on the M9 menu under Histogram), combined with using the standard picture on the LCD. (Compare LCD results frequently with computer monitor results until you are sure you can predict outcomes).

You’ll likely need to reduce/increase the flash by either reducing/increasing the exposure compensation (exp. Comp.) on the M9, or Exposure Value (EV) on the flash. Though you can use either way or combine the two, the simplest is to alter the EV on the flash. You can try using -1/3 to -3 EV, for a dark subject, or EV of +1/3 to +3 for a light subject. If the changes are very subtle, they can be seen when judging tungsten ambient light with the more white flash. In other words, not correcting the flash color with a gel as you might in a non test situation, so that you can see as the color shift to a more golden as the flash is lessened and the tungsten takes over.

Another way to see the results is to shoot inside a room with a somewhat brighter view out a window included in the photo.

1. With no flash, meter and shoot for ambient light out the window; you’ll get a proper exposure for the window, but a dark room.

2. With no flash, meter and shoot for the room and get a well exposed room with an overly bright window.

3. With flash on, aim for a good overall exposure by setting flash & M9 as above & varying the EV on the flash. See below.

 

EXPOSURE COMPENSATION for the M9, (exp. Comp.), and SF 58 (EV) are independent of each other. Thus exp. Comp. controls the relative amount of ambient light, and EV controls the relative amount of flash.

*Exp. Comp. can be set by on the M9 using the SET button and navigating to Exp. Comp. Or you can set it up on the camera by pressing the MENU button, and then the up or down triangle on the menu dial, until reaching Exp. Comp. Then change it to “SETTING RING”. (This only needs to be set up one time if you save it in the menu’s “SAVE USERS PROFILE”). You are now able to set the Exp. Comp. while viewing the shutter speed through the viewfinder by rotating the menu ring. If you dial in any Exp. Comp. besides ZERO, a red dot will blink in the LOWER area of your shutter speed. (With “A”, no Exp. Comp. = no dot. [With “A”, a red dot in the UPPER part of your shutter speed indicates you have pressed the shutter far enough to lock in your exposure even if you move your camera to another part of the scene that is brighter or darker, as long as you keep pressing the shutter and see the dot]).

*EV is set on the flash by pressing the button under SET one or more times until you reach EV. Then press the (+) or (–) to set the EV.

……………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………..

Here is another way to work:

Semi Manual Direct Flash or Bounce:

10. MANUAL mode on M9, TTL on SF 58:

11. Set M9 shutter speed to 1/180 or less.

12. Set M9 ISO manually with the ISO button on the M9.

13. Set F/STOP on both M9 & SF 58

14. SET SF58 TO TTL

15. Set SF 58 ZOOM TO AUTO.

16. Save these settings in the M9 as a profile, (optional).

17. ALTER SHUTTER SPEED, F/STOP, &/OR ISO TO GET CORRECT EXPOSURE on the M9, then turn on flash.

18. Alter Flash EV and/or M9 exp. Comp to get the best exposure, while watching +/- clipping; histogram, &/or LCD screen.

 

Again to test, shoot inside a room with a somewhat brighter view out a window included in the photo. To get a balanced exposure in and outside the room, meter for a correct exposure for the window, and add flash. Alter flash EV or M9 Exp. Comp. as described above until the exposure is well balanced.

[ShotCapture]

Please evaluate and comment on the instructions I posted after experimenting with test shots of the M9 + SF 58 flash. Thanks

[D&A]

Hi,

 

Very much appreciate your feedback and protocol for using the SF-58 and M9.

 

One part I still don't understand. Why do you have to set the flash to the same aperture that you have your lens set to when using TTL? If you have to do that with the M9 and SF-58 everytime you change the aperture on the lens, then hat by definition isn't TTL. With TTL flash, the exposure by the flash is determined by the sensor in the camera measuing the light passing through the lens...so if you stop or open the lens down, the SF-58 shoudl adjust its output when the TTL info is passed from the camera body to the flash. If not, then it isn't really TTL flash.

 

If you have the SF-58 set to "A" mode instead of TTL, then I would agreee...that when you change the aperture of the lens, you have to set the SF-58 flash to the same f-stop as the lens...but there should be no reson to do this when in TTL with the M9 and SF-58.

 

Please correct me if I'm incorrect.

 

Thanks!

 

Dave (D&A)

[ShotCapture]

You are right. The SF 58 flash TTL evens things out. However changing the f stop does make a difference. Changing the f stop on the M9 seems to make the most difference. The EV does not seem to make much difference.

It is very hard to see the following results in a regular shot of, say, a room wall, but they can be seen clearly when using the somewhat brighter window, or a lamp as part of the scene.

Using M9 on "A", etc. & SF 58 on TTL, etc.:

M9: f1.4 & SF 58: f1.4 = ambient & flash balanced.

M9: f16 & SF 58: f1.4 = flash only seen.

M9: f1.4 & SF 58: 16 = ambient & flash balanced.

M9: f16 & SF 58: 16 = flash only seen.

It still does not make a lot of sense to me yet as my Canon was "plug & play"

The most controllable changes seem to be when using semi-manual with Manual mode on the M9 & TTL on the SF 58, (as outlined on the post above).

[Rick]

You are right. The SF 58 flash TTL evens things out. However changing the f stop does make a difference. Changing the f stop on the M9 seems to make the most difference. The EV does not seem to make much difference.

It is very hard to see the following results in a regular shot of, say, a room wall, but they can be seen clearly when using the somewhat brighter window, or a lamp as part of the scene.

Using M9 on "A", etc. & SF 58 on TTL, etc.:

M9: f1.4 & SF 58: f1.4 = ambient & flash balanced.

M9: f16 & SF 58: f1.4 = flash only seen.

M9: f1.4 & SF 58: 16 = ambient & flash balanced.

M9: f16 & SF 58: 16 = flash only seen.

It still does not make a lot of sense to me yet as my Canon was "plug & play"

The most controllable changes seem to be when using semi-manual with Manual mode on the M9 & TTL on the SF 58, (as outlined on the post above).

 

All you are demonstrating here is that at f1.4 (lens) the ambient light is so great (reaching the sensor) that little flash is produced (needed). At f16 (lens) the ambient light is very small (reaching the sensor) and the flash must produce more light. It doesn't have anything to do with setting the f number on the flash when in TTL.

 

Even in TTL, the flash has its limits of how little and how great the amount of light it can produce. There is a useful range and to produce good results this range must fall inside the parameters you have chosen (distance, f-stop, shutter speed, ISO).

 

Unlike your Nikon system, there can be no auto aperture control by the TTL system in the M9 flash system in TTL. The TTL flash system in the M9 can never balance as well as the Nikon system because the Nikon can take control of the shutter speed AND the aperture to balance for perfect flash.

 

I think everyone has to realize that you must play a partial role of computer in the M9 system even in TTL because, you must decide how to pick the correct aperture so the TTL can fill the rest of the light in. You must decide with the aperture how much ambient light you want in the exposure. (This ain't Nikon land! This is the M9 world and in that world, we decided to use a camera where, at the very least, we have to pick our own aperture AND think about what that means). All that the TTL on the M9 can do is fill correctly from there based on the amount of light reaching the exposure sensor in the M9. (Ok, it can adjust the shutter speed).

 

If, the TTL exposure doesn't turn out like what you had in mind then, think, and adjust your lens aperture (ambient light) or move into manual shutter mode and adjust the shutter speed to balance the ambient light. Or, start with a shot with no flash, if you can live with the slow shutter and you like the f-stop, then turn on the flash and let it try and fill with TTL mode.

 

Or, set TTL and f5.6 (lens) and 1/60 sec and shoot within the flashes guide distance and get all flash and no ambient light but, you won't miss the kids opening up their presents and you won't have to think, which, sometimes, is a good thing.

[charlesphoto99]

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Here's a question:

 

Has anyone used the SF-58 on a Nikon?

 

If so, I would imagine it would have to be in A or Manual mode. I've been considering an SF-58 for the M9 but already have an SB-800 for the Nikons (and a Vivitar 285HV and Quantam T2:p). No way would I want to carry more than one flash at a time if using the two different cameras - and maybe even selling the SB-800 to fund the SF-58.

 

Reverse form what most people consider I know, but, anyone?

[Jerry_R]

maybe even selling the SB-800 to fund the SF-58.

Reverse form what most people consider I know, but, anyone?

I had SF-58. No complaints.

Now I have FL-36R - perfect size for M9 in my opinion.

 

Zero issues, I only set (very quickly) aperture on it - using a wheel. It uses its own AUTO meter.

I have set ISO earlier (initially \ one time). Anyway - if one would like to change ISO - also very easy and quick operation!

[marknorton]

I like the front facing sub-flash of the SF-58 but it's a pity Leica do not include the £18 plastic diffuser as standard with the flash which is considerably more expensive than the considerably more capable Nikon SB-900. The SF-58 display is much better than the SF-24 but that's hardly a compliment.

[Rick]

Mark, the OP is asking for help about what settings to use on the SF-58, not what you like are don't like... which we all pretty much know what you think of Leica. How about some help here of what you know and do?

[menos I M6]

Mark, the OP is asking for help about what settings to use on the SF-58, not what you like are don't like... which we all pretty much know what you think of Leica. How about some help here of what you know and do?

 

I don't like, that the much more expensive than a fully flagged Nikon SB-900 strobe SF58 doesn't come with a PC sync port.

…

…

 

I never bother with the front facing second reflector, as it's output in low light is so high, that it influences ambient waaaaayyyy too much, making shots look flashy easily.

 

For day light fill and catchlight creation it is ok, when using the main reflector bounced.

My tip: either gel this reflector permanently or switch it off (within the cryptic engineer menu).

 

I use the the SF58 almost exclusively in TTL - for anything manual or auto flash, any top range Nikon flash is far superior in ergonomics and performance, that I don't bother with the SF58 (this indeed should be the sole reason, to consider being robbed for the SF58, which is less a crime, than getting robbed for the abysmal SF24D, which is not priced lower towards the SF58 according to the huge performance differential between the two).

[Rick]

Menos, I'm not sure why you are posting the negative problems about the Leica flashes. It's ok to not like the Leica's and feel they are too expensive and that you like the Nikon's better, but I'm not sure that you are posting correct information about the reasons you don't like the Leica's.

 

For instance, you say, "When I fiddled with the SF24D for a day, I was hoping, to just be able, to use it as a compact flash trigger for the SU-4'ed Nikon flashes. It was hideous, as the SF24D has to be taped up and filtered, to not blow highlights with it's minimum selectable flash output. It is a useless waste of money compared to any other flash in that price range".

 

Ok, I played around with my SU-4 trigger and the SF 24D (not for a day - more like 5-minutes) and it worked just fine. The SF 24D is capable of very, very low flash power. There is no need to tape it or filter it and what ever you are doing to physically decrease its output is a waste of time. I'm not sure if you know how to just set it for less power because, at its lowest output it certainly would be hard to blow any highlights. It isn't a waste of money if you know what you are doing. It is a very capable little flash that provides TTL with the M9 (yeah, it could have a better physical profile, and swivel, and have better menus, and it could be a touch more powerful, and a touch less expensive - free would be my choice) but, it doesn't suffer from inability to produce low output.

[ShotCapture]

......All that the TTL on the M9 can do is fill correctly ..... based on the amount of light reaching the exposure sensor in the M9,,,,,

If, the TTL exposure doesn't turn out like what you had in mind then, think, and adjust your lens aperture (ambient light) or move into manual shutter mode and adjust the shutter speed to balance the ambient light. Or, start with a shot with no flash, if you can live with the slow shutter and you like the f-stop, then turn on the flash and let it try and fill with TTL mode.

Or, set TTL and f5.6 (lens) and 1/60 sec and shoot within the flashes guide distance and get all flash and no ambient light but, you won't miss the kids opening up their presents and you won't have to think, which, sometimes, is a good thing.

My edit of your comment expresses what I am begining to realize, and was trying to express with my exagerated test shots. I actually shot test pictures with settings inbtween the extremes of f 1.4 to f 16 also. It seems that when I shoot within the range of a corectly exposed shot without flash, and then add flash, it comes out well with ambient balanced. If that is not possible, I get a good flash only shot. My best shots still are to take test shots and decide the best look, then shoot the real shot.

Thanks for your words which express this better than I have.

[Rick]

Thanks for the kind words. It sounds like you are on the right track. One last thought:

 

Photography without flash has only three exposure variables. You can have the Nikon in camera computer do it for you or you can think about it and do it yourself with the M9, or the Nikon.

 

Flash is even simpler. All the flash can do is vary power. That is it. You have to do your part with the M9 exposure settings, as usual, and then tell the flash how much power to deliver. TTL and Auto will do it for you. But, you have to make decisions when you are setting the M9 that will determine how much power you want the flash to provide with its TTL calculations. And, you need to be inside the flashes power envelope. For more static shooting, just set the flash power yourself. I believe that a lot of people let all of this TTL/Auto/Manual stuff and all of the settings on the flash just fog their thinking. And, the Leica menus don't help all of this, either.

 

So, in the beginning, don't get caught up with menus and f-stop settings and guide numbers and distances and all the rest. Start out with the fact that the flash produces light and that is the only variable you can adjust.