marcusperkins Posted November 28, 2010 Share #1 Posted November 28, 2010 Advertisement (gone after registration) I was about to load some film into my MP this morning, and found a clear puncture through the shutter curtain (about the size of a compass pin) along with some small scratch marks and two additional puncture attempts (on the inside of the shutter curtain looking in through the lens mount, which means it could not have been the film). Nobody but me uses this camera, and I've certainly never gone near it with anything sharp, let along anything sharp near the shutter curtain from either side. I've also been using a Leica M cameras for the best part of 20 years, so any kind of loading error is highly unlikely. The shutter mechanism appears to be working fine, with no odd sounds or noises (I am extremely familiar with sounds it makes). The pressure plate is completely unmarked. I'm utterly clueless as to what could have caused this. Does anybody have any ideas? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted November 28, 2010 Posted November 28, 2010 Hi marcusperkins, Take a look here Mystery Puncture. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Xmas Posted November 28, 2010 Share #2 Posted November 28, 2010 sun can do pin holes. wide angle lens focused at few feet the worst offender. Try fabric paint unless you have passport warranty. Noel Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcusperkins Posted November 28, 2010 Author Share #3 Posted November 28, 2010 Here are some pictures of the damage (the black vertical line on the metering patch has been there since new). Picture 1: general damaged area Picture 2: close up Picture 3: close up back lit to show hole Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/137984-mystery-puncture/?do=findComment&comment=1515494'>More sharing options...
marcusperkins Posted November 28, 2010 Author Share #4 Posted November 28, 2010 sun can do pin holes. wide angle lens focused at few feet the worst offender. Try fabric paint unless you have passport warranty. Noel Thanks Xmas - I'd thought of that, but highly unlikely given the nature of the damage, and my awareness of leaving the camera in the sun. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted November 28, 2010 Share #5 Posted November 28, 2010 Marcus, A torn piece of the film sprocket would be my one guess but the damage looks quite severe for that. Second would be a piece of one of the return springs for the shutter blinds or another bit of the internal mechanism of the camera. From your photos, the damage looks very like tears. I doubt if this is repairable other than new curtains. Wilson Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xmas Posted November 28, 2010 Share #6 Posted November 28, 2010 black fabric paint leave 24 hours after application, dont worry, if it does not work, unless you have a current passport. Noel Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcusperkins Posted November 28, 2010 Author Share #7 Posted November 28, 2010 Advertisement (gone after registration) Thanks Noel, I'll certainly give that a go. The big concern is finding what caused the puncture in the first place - professionally speaking I'd have to send it in for a full stripdown - I just wouldn't trust it otherwise. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xmas Posted November 28, 2010 Share #8 Posted November 28, 2010 Hi It looks like a burn to me, you always wind on after exposure Your last film should show exposed spots. The sun is low in winter. The damage only takes seconds not minutes. I always hand carry camera... never us a strap... Leave paint undisturbed for at least 24hours, if you are a pro you could replace the blinds... Noel Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted November 28, 2010 Share #9 Posted November 28, 2010 Hi It looks like a burn to me, you always wind on after exposure Your last film should show exposed spots. The sun is low in winter. The damage only takes seconds not minutes. I always hand carry camera... never us a strap... Leave paint undisturbed for at least 24hours, if you are a pro you could replace the blinds... Noel Noel, If you look closely at the blinds, as well as the holes, there are score marks, which I don't think can have been due to sun. I think Marcus is right and something has come adrift or broken off inside and caused this damage. For peace of mind, albeit allied to emptiness of pocket, I think a holiday in Solms is called for. I, my late father and grandfather, have used Leicas since the early 1930's and frequently carried them around without lens caps. The only Leica which has had its blinds replaced was my grandfather's model II and I was told that was due to their wrinkling after it got damp. My father's 1953 IIF and my 1967 M4 are still on their original blinds, with no holes, so either we have been exceptionally lucky or hole burning is not as common as one might think. Wilson Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcusperkins Posted November 28, 2010 Author Share #10 Posted November 28, 2010 I'm not going to rule out a burn - it is certainly the right time of year to get caught out with the low sun as Noel suggested. It's the mess around the puncture that makes me curious. Getting if checked will not be a problem, and in a way I hope it is a burn - at least I'll then know there is nothing floating around in the mechanism. After all the assignments this camera has been used on, It truly would be a stroke of bad luck to be caught out with a burn. Anyway, thanks guys for your thoughts. Much appreciated. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanG Posted November 29, 2010 Share #11 Posted November 29, 2010 Don't rule out possible insect damage from shutterbugs. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcusperkins Posted November 29, 2010 Author Share #12 Posted November 29, 2010 Hi Alan, I've not heard of that one before - anymore information? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xmas Posted November 29, 2010 Share #13 Posted November 29, 2010 Hi Analogue cameras do get mites, e.g. geletine is a edible medium, don't know how they tolerate the Ag salts. My Nikon F SLR used to get them bad, one could see them clearly when they did a preprandial walk across the Fresnel lens focus screen. But the score marks look like sun burns to me. Most of the time I use Canon cameras with metal shutters, but when I'm using Leicas Barnack or M. I'm real careful, as you may shoot several films after the burn and they are all going to show the damage. Long term the fabric will get 'sun burn', it is best to have the material facing the lens rather than the rubber side, If one looks at an Exakta SLR the first blind is normally ok where it is protected by the non return mirror, the second blind is more brittle. Cheaper to send the Leica to 3rd part repairer, e.g. CAMERA REPAIRS & RESTORATION - LUTON , ENGLAND I'd ask the repairer what might have caused the damage... If you have a passport Leica may fix it for free. Noel Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted November 29, 2010 Share #14 Posted November 29, 2010 Marcus, I think Alan's reference to a shutterbug might have been a wind up. Wilson Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/137984-mystery-puncture/?do=findComment&comment=1516570'>More sharing options...
Xmas Posted November 29, 2010 Share #15 Posted November 29, 2010 Marcus, I think Alan's reference to a shutterbug might have been a wind up. Wilson Hi Looks real enough to me... Noel Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill Posted November 29, 2010 Share #16 Posted November 29, 2010 Hmm... because I firmly believe that one should not increase, beyond what is necessary, the number of entities required to explain anything, I have to ask the following question... Do you have children? Regards, Bill Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanG Posted November 29, 2010 Share #17 Posted November 29, 2010 Marcus, I think Alan's reference to a shutterbug might have been a wind up. Wilson Yes. However, my interest was piqued so I took a piece of black gaffers tape and focused the light from the sun on it using a 50mm f2 lens. It burned a hole through it in about two seconds. It looks pretty similar to the posted images. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xmas Posted November 29, 2010 Share #18 Posted November 29, 2010 The damage only takes seconds not minutes. The OP has burnt his shutter curtain for sure, it is a salutary lesson for any camera owner. A new shutter is expensive. The Leica user instructions does caution 'a lens is like a burning glass' the effect is just like the OP's photos... Noel Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcusperkins Posted November 29, 2010 Author Share #19 Posted November 29, 2010 Marcus, I think Alan's reference to a shutterbug might have been a wind up. Wilson Well, I did think, but AlanG's not usually the joking sort... Also the blind is made of silk, and I do visit some strange places with strange creatures creeping around - one of them could have been hungry. Bill, good point - but highly unlikely it was touched by anybody else in the family other than me. One of my theories (based on Noel's good point about a low sun) is that it is a burn from a setting sun through the branches of trees and the slits in the blind, bounced off a mirror - that may explain the multiple messy attack. If it is that, and I'm now suspecting it is, then it really is a one in million 'planets lined up' scenario. In a way it is a relief that it is highly likely to be a burn - much rather a freak accident like this, than have some swarf floating around the mechanism, and not know where it came from. Thanks for all your help and good humour. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanG Posted November 29, 2010 Share #20 Posted November 29, 2010 Well, I did think, but AlanG's not usually the joking sort... Actually, I'm joking in most of my posts. And I'm serious when I say this. We are so concerned about bedbugs in our region, that now when I come back from a trip, I'm required to place my suitcase inside a black trash bag and leave it in the sun on our deck for about a week. I have to strip down in the garage. Next is a decontamination chamber. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.