Jump to content

35mm Summicron pre-ASPH v4 questions


kipdent

Recommended Posts

Advertisement (gone after registration)

I'm sorry if this has been asked before, but I'm wondering if someone could answer a few questions about this "King of Bokeh" lens:

 

-What was the official serial number range for it?

-Were some made with no serial number on the face?

-Even though it was known as v4 throughout its production run, were there any differences in its design as its manufacture moved from Canada to Germany?

-Regarding its rumored lower level of build quality, are there things to look for when buying a used one that reveals it has a problem?

-Is there an opinion of an average price that is fair for this lens on the used market?

 

And finally, as an owner of a current 35mm Summicron ASPH, I actually like its out-of-focus rendering at f/2. Can anyone point me to examples of images that show the bokeh differences between the pre-ASPH v4 and the current ASPH design?

 

Thanks to everyone in advance!

Link to post
Share on other sites

What was the official serial number range for it? The first number for this lens was 2974251. The first number for the ASPH version was 3767100. But remember Leica assigns numbers in batches, so there will be all kinds of "gaps" within that range.

 

Were some made with no serial number on the face? - Yes, quite a few, back when Leitz had to fit "Leitz Lens Made In Canada" onto the face - the serial number in those cases is on the back, bottom rim of the aperture ring (facing the camera).

 

Even though it was known as v4 throughout its production run, were there any differences in its design as its manufacture moved from Canada to Germany? - Only cosmetics, such as the type face used for engraving, or the location of the SN. Probably some coating changes, but I have never seen that they actually made a difference. Mostly just to keep consistent with changes in available materials.

 

Regarding its rumored lower level of build quality, are there things to look for when buying a used one that reveals it has a problem? - GENTLY grip the front of the lens (aperture ring and face, or lens hood if the rectanglar type is mounted) and twist counterclockwise. This front segment is prone to breaking loose and unscrewing, especially if gorillas have used the lens hood as a grip for mounting and unmounting the lens from the camera (bad idea!). That's the only issue specific to this lens. Sometimes you can check visually and simply notice that the rectangular hood is cockeyed when the lens is mounted. Otherwise, just the usually checks for any lens - oil on the aperture blades (don't confuse scuffing with oil - both look shiny), looseness to the focusing tab, excessive dust or stuff on/in the glass.

 

Is there an opinion of an average price that is fair for this lens on the used market? - I paid $1,100 US for one last spring (caps, no hood), but it appears I got a really good deal. I'd be really uncomfortable paying more than $1,500 (well, I'd be uncomfortable paying ANYTHING, since I already have one ;) ) As with all Leica M lenses, the prices on eBay at the moment are frankly deranged. ($2,400??!!!) - KEH has one for $1,599

 

Can anyone point me to examples of images that show the bokeh differences between the pre-ASPH v4 and the current ASPH design? I'll have to get back to you once I've searched my files for comparable images. I'd say the v.4 is more variable depending on subject/background distance and lighting - sometime glorious and sometimes ugly. The ASPH is smooth, but sometimes a little bland.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I had a Summicron-ASPH and sold it in favor of the 4th version. No doubt the ASPH has the better MTF graph, but I like the smaller, lighter size of the 4th version. Leica is my travel camera, so size and weight are paramount. I also have a 3rd version, well-used, which performs quite similarly to the 4th, but is built better. That comes as a weight penalty, so I still prefer the 4th.

 

Things to watch for are:

 

1) looseness or misalignment of the front part of the lens. It is held with thread-locking compound (fancy word for glue) whereas older versions had grub screws running transversely into the threads. The glue would hold fine, except that the 4th is very short and has that rectangular hood. Very tempting to grab it to mount and dismount the lens, and that's what eventually works the thread compound loose. Remember to grasp the lens by the serrated ring near the back, and you won't have a problem (unless the previous owners used the hood as a grip). Actually the ASPH has the same issue, but being that it's a bigger lens, less temptation to twist it by the hood.

 

2) Separation of the rear element grouping. If you look straight at the rear element and see a rainbow of concentric circles, that's your indication. It doesn't happen often, but I've seen it more than once, and the repair guys have too.

 

I've owned several of these lenses, Canadian and German. The optical formula is the same, so any difference in performance is likely due to sample variation. I've never seen a visible difference between Canadian and German manufactured samples.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I agree that, as for using, a Summicron 35 asph is more than sufficient: superb lens in any sense.

Being a collector... ;)... I personally would like to have one with the s/n NOT on the front, as the very precise statement of Andy has detailed (but they are all black... and I love a lot chromes... :o)

Link to post
Share on other sites

Advertisement (gone after registration)

Samples:

 

The man with a bird on his head is a v.4 "worst-case" scenario (sundappled leaves) with all kinds of double images.

 

The fountain pix show what the v.4 does best (@ f/2) - adds a lot of sparkle or glow to water highlights

 

The girl with a mouse is medium-case v.4 - good subject separation, bright circles mostly under control.

 

Kids and classroom desk is classic 35 'cron ASPH - smooth, with a "bubble" quality to OOF highlights, rather than rings. Worst case for the ASPH would be about like the girl with mouse - still under control.

_____

 

SOME people claim the "King of Bokeh" label is really based not on f/2 performance, but on stopped-down bokeh @ f/5.6 or so, where the brilliance still shows through, but the bright rings are toned down. And more to the transition areas from sharp to soft, rather than the clearly OOF areas.

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

Link to post
Share on other sites

Wow--thank you to everyone who has replied! I am very appreciative for all of the concise, level-headed information provided; it is, in my experience, unprecedented on Internet forums!

 

Based on the example images posted so far, my (perhaps) irrational desire to seek out the v4 is becoming less intense. I absolutely love my 35mm ASPH; it is my most used lens, and its creaminess at f/2 is my favorite aspect. I doubt I would be taking intentionally OOF area shots at f/5.6.

 

Again, thank you--this is a great Forum.

 

Kip

Link to post
Share on other sites

So, if you are in the mood of abandoning the idea of the V4 but aren't yet out of the (irrational or not...:)) desire of a new lens...;)... I can say that the Elmarit 24 asph is a lens that has much to share with the quality of the Cron 35 asph...

 

Luigi--

 

I agree as I own this lens! It is magnificent, despite being declared an odd M focal length by Ken Rockwell. ;-)

 

I know this is now off-topic, but in addition to the Elmarit 24mm ASPH, I also purchased the Elmarit 21mm ASPH. I did this in an effort to choose a lens wider than the 35mm Summicron and choose just one, but I cannot decide! They both have have their strengths; I just can't afford both. I have read this is a common problem, deciding between the 24 and 21. Perhaps this is one of the reasons I mostly use the 35mm Summicron ASPH--it is nearly perfect and distracts me from the 24 and 21!

Link to post
Share on other sites

Guest Ron (Netherlands)

As I understand, the term "bokeh king" was introduced because 35mm users weren't enthusiastic about the type II and type III Summicrons when it comes to the rendering of bokeh (especially with respect to the highlights where they perform kind of circular - sometimes harsh - bokeh). Therefore Leitz introduced a lens, known as type IV with a larger front element to introduce quite a lot of coma which provides for a softer kind of bokeh, but also for in my view less sharpness at full opening.

 

The asph combines both tack sharpness (also fully open) with nice soft bokeh. The only downside: the lens is bigger than its predecessors.

 

little tip: if you shoot mainly black and white pictures: go for a nice type I summicron.

 

Shot with the type II Summicron

Kopie%20van%20L1003388-2.jpg

Link to post
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...