Nikkor 85/1.4 replacement

[Bundestrainer]

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I'm probably selling my Nikon D3 and buying a Leica M9. As the Nikkor 85/1.4 is one of my favourite lenses, I'll need a replacement with the M9.

 

I'm looking at the Summicron 75 or the Elmarit 90.

 

Which lens would you recommend and why?

[innerimager]

Well, 1.4 is 1.4. The 75/2 and 90/2.8 are outstanding lenses, but 2.0 and 2.8 make for different possibilities, especially in given light portraits. The leica 75 summilux is the best "replacement" for the nikon 85/1.4 imo. I use both systems, and love the 85/1.4. But the leica 75/1.4 is "better" for me, it's just one of my favorite lenses. The sharpness at 1.4 betters the nikon (even though you may hear that the leica is soft wide open, NOT true), and the quality of the bokeh is more pleasing than the nikon, which is saying a lot. Contrast increases as you stop down, and at 1.4 is just smooth enough to facilitate portraiture. Good luck with the new world of Leica shooting. You will be amazed at these lenses, and the M9 as well. best....Peter

[viramati]

I use a canon 85 f1.8 from around 1961.

(see bottom of page)

http://www.mir.com.my/rb/photography/companies/nikon/nikkoresources/RF-Nikkor/Canon_RF/canonRF85mm.htm

 

very good lens but probably hard to find

 

Also have the Elmarit-M 90 which is an outstanding lens for its price

[newtoleica]

I've done the same switch, and am using a 75/2 ASPH. Its a lovely lens, and every bit as good bokeh as the Nikon 85/1.4. Funny thing is my style of shooting has changed a bit with the M, and I find I'm using a 50 1.4 lux ASPH more instead of the 75.

You may also find its not a straight 'swap' of FLs......

[Artichoke]

I also have the Nikkor 85 f1.4 & love this lens, but the 75 Summilux is simply amazing & much less intimidating

the bokeh is even dreamier & my Summilux is sharper than the Nikkor at all apertures

it is my favorite people lens & peerless at portraiture

[Jager]

I too run both systems and love the Nikkor 85/1.4. It's an exceptional lens with wonderful bokeh. One of the very best portrait lenses around.

 

I have both the Summicron 75 and the Elmarit 90. I find the 75 far more useful on my M9 - smaller, lighter, bokeh as good as or better than the Nikkor, and the extra stop over the Elmarit makes a huge difference. The Elmarit is a terrific lens, but frankly I have a hard time spending too much time with a prime slower than f2.

 

The discontinued 75 Summilux is much to be recommended, as well.

 

Welcome to the world of Leica!

[theno23]

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Why not the Summicron 90 ASPH? It's farily large for an M lens, but much smaller than the Nikon.

 

- Steve

[Bundestrainer]

Thank you very much everybody for your replies. Your answers suggest to closer look at the 75/1.4, 75/2 and 90/2 (don't want the Elmarit 90 anymore).

 

Haven't thought about the 90/2 (didn't know it existed) earlier but might have a closer look at it. From what I've seen it could be a fantastic choice.

 

Would be happy about more comments.

[jaapv]

I sold my Apo-Summicron 90 asph for the Elmarit 90 - never took the Summicron with me because it is to heavy for the limited application of a 90 -I love the Elmarit and use it often.

[sandymc]

Just be aware that the 90 at wide aperture, and even the 75 at f/1.4 are not the easiest to focus accurately. Not impossible, but you will need a well calibrated M9/lens combination, and practice......at first you're likely to see a fair number of out-of-focus shots.

 

Sandy

[Bundestrainer]

Just had a look at some more pictures at Flickr. I narrowed my choice further down to the 75/1.4 and 75/2. What is the big difference between them besides the different wide-open aperture?

[k_g_wolf ✝]

>> Jaap

 

If the SUMMILUX 75, app. 650 g, is not too heavy for you, the SUMMICRON Asph. 90

should actually be o. k. with its 500 grams and a smaller diameter ...

 

I feel, the SUMMICRON Asph. 90 is perfect for what it is able to do, a really great lens. for portraits i. e.

 

Best

GEORG

[jaapv]

I sold the Summilux 75 for the same reason....

[jaapv]

Just had a look at some more pictures at Flickr. I narrowed my choice further down to the 75/1.4 and 75/2. What is the big difference between them besides the different wide-open aperture?

weight,size and price.

[ndjambrose]

You could also consider the Zeiss 85/2.

 

It's a lens with an excellent reputation. Non linear RF coupling, floating element and the optical design is based on work from Zeiss's cine-lens division, sharing some lineage with the ARRI Ultra Prime Sonnar. It's more expensive than other Zeiss lenses, but for good reason.

 

There's a Putts review if anyone is interested: http://www.imx.nl/photo/zeiss/zeiss/page72.html

 

Quick summary if you don't have time to read it:

 

The ZM 85/2 scores better than the 90/2 and 75/2 for astigmatism, distortion, coma and resolution. Overall contrast and resolving power is higher, especially at close distances and wide open. It loses a few points for being 4mm longer and a bit wider. Although a nominal 85mm, EP says it's fine for the 90 frameline as real world focal length is closer to 88mm. Image quality overall is optimised for closer distances, being more of a portrait lens than an infinity lens. The 75/2 is marginally better at flare suppression, but the ZM 85/2 is better than the 90/2. (I think that's an accurate summation).

[adan]

.....The 75/1.4 and 75/2. What is the big difference between them besides the different wide-open aperture?

 

Well, jaap summed up the obvious (although there is not that big a price difference - 75 f/1.4s are (almost) only available used, and their used price on average falls right in the same range as used 75 f/2's. A local store has an old-new-stock 75 f/1.4, and the "new" price on it (from around 2004, no doubt) is only $100 more than a brand-new 75 f/2 today)

 

There are significant differences in how they draw, however. Enough so that one might even own both lenses for different purposes. I'd prefer the f/1.4 for romantic weddings, and the f/2 for detailed studio work, for example.

 

The APO-Summicron (f/2) is technically a "better" lens - more resolution, more edge contrast, very little chromatic aberration.

 

The Summilux f/1.4 is a 30-year-old design, and is substantially dreamier at larger apertures (and never quite as crisp even stopped down a lot - although very good). It has significant longitudinal CA, as demonstrated in a sample I posted here (but bear in mind this is a 100% pixel crop, NOT a full frame): http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/digital-forum/145063-what-chromatic-aberrations-really-look-like.html

 

As a Nikon user, if you like the top-end modern "ED" Nikon look, the f/2 will probably be more to your liking. The f/1.4 will be more like the older manual AIS Nikkor 85 f/1.4 of AI 85 f/1.8. Although that is a VERY rough analogy. In fact the Leica f/1.4 may be more like a Canon 85 f/1.2 FD lens in terms of color rendition - cooler, greener.

 

Sample pix, as best as my files will provide for comparable framing and lighting and subjects and "wide open" aperture. They do accurately represent (IMHO) the character differences of the two 75s.

 

Lady with hawk - f/1.4 lens, greener, cooler color rendition, dreamy soft-over-sharp look, a bit more "3D" effect.

 

Lady with sign - f/2 lens, redder color overall, just plain sharp, neutral bokeh, but a bit dry (in the wine sense) where the f/1.4 is "fruity".

 

Bottom line, if you need f/1.4, for either low-light or optical effects, then you need f/1.4. If you don't need f/1.4, then the imaging differences are probably the next consideration. (A light, compact lens that doesn't deliver the look you want is no bargain). If those leave you still undecided, than the price/availabilty/size differences come into play.

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[adan]

IMHO - there is not a significant difference between these lenses in "focusability". The smaller aperture of the Summicron is offset by a shorter, touchier focus throw. Put simply, with either of these lenses wide-open, if you're on, you're on, and if you're not, it will be painfully obvious. Having used multiple copies of both, there can be sample variations, and I've used versions of each that nailed focus every time - or couldn't focus their way out of a paper bag.

[V_kids]

the new voigtlander 75/1.8 is really good lens

u should try it

[Bundestrainer]

Well, jaap summed up the obvious (although there is not that big a price difference - 75 f/1.4s are (almost) only available used, and their used price on average falls right in the same range as used 75 f/2's. A local store has an old-new-stock 75 f/1.4, and the "new" price on it (from around 2004, no doubt) is only $100 more than a brand-new 75 f/2 today)

 

There are significant differences in how they draw, however. Enough so that one might even own both lenses for different purposes. I'd prefer the f/1.4 for romantic weddings, and the f/2 for detailed studio work, for example.

 

The APO-Summicron (f/2) is technically a "better" lens - more resolution, more edge contrast, very little chromatic aberration.

 

The Summilux f/1.4 is a 30-year-old design, and is substantially dreamier at larger apertures (and never quite as crisp even stopped down a lot - although very good). It has significant longitudinal CA, as demonstrated in a sample I posted here (but bear in mind this is a 100% pixel crop, NOT a full frame): http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/digital-forum/145063-what-chromatic-aberrations-really-look-like.html

 

As a Nikon user, if you like the top-end modern "ED" Nikon look, the f/2 will probably be more to your liking. The f/1.4 will be more like the older manual AIS Nikkor 85 f/1.4 of AI 85 f/1.8. Although that is a VERY rough analogy. In fact the Leica f/1.4 may be more like a Canon 85 f/1.2 FD lens in terms of color rendition - cooler, greener.

 

Sample pix, as best as my files will provide for comparable framing and lighting and subjects and "wide open" aperture. They do accurately represent (IMHO) the character differences of the two 75s.

 

Lady with hawk - f/1.4 lens, greener, cooler color rendition, dreamy soft-over-sharp look, a bit more "3D" effect.

 

Lady with sign - f/2 lens, redder color overall, just plain sharp, neutral bokeh, but a bit dry (in the wine sense) where the f/1.4 is "fruity".

 

Bottom line, if you need f/1.4, for either low-light or optical effects, then you need f/1.4. If you don't need f/1.4, then the imaging differences are probably the next consideration. (A light, compact lens that doesn't deliver the look you want is no bargain). If those leave you still undecided, than the price/availabilty/size differences come into play.

 

 

Thank you VERY much for this comprehensive overview.

 

In the meantime I did my homework and had a closer look at some pictures taken with the Summilux and Summicron 75. Unfortunately, I'm totally puzzled now and don't know which lens to take. I seem to prefer the Summilux look (greenish and very soft). However, the Summicron might be the better all-purpose-lens I want.

 

Adan, do you agree with innerimager and Artichoke that the Summilux is as sharp wide-open as the Summicron?

 

Is the Summilux also made to be used for other occasions than weddings or portraiture? Is it way to soft for landscapes or cityscapes?

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[pico]

KEH.com has a 75mm Summilux in EX condition for $2,289.00 USD. You would have to ask them which version it really is because their picture does not match the detailed description. (Pic shows the one that does not have the built-in lens shade.)

 

Gadzooks, I haven't checked prices for so long. The lens is more than twice what I paid for it slightly used.

 

I use the first version 75mmm Summilux with a .75 finder plus a 1.5X magnifier. I shoot with both eyes open with this combination which makes close enough to 1:1 that it's a pleasure to use.

 

I highly recommend the leicagoodies 'steer' with the lens.