Digilloyd's S2 focus field test.

[glenerrolrd]

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Marc

 

I have found that the learning curve does take time. Using the Af locking or following options with the rear button..gives me the capability. But it doesn t think for me or make the fine adjustments like a D3 would. Coming from an M9 I think hard about my point of focus,anticipate the moment and wait. So technique is between the M9 and the D3.

 

That part I am convinced the photographer can adapt. But if you ever tried a D7000 with the newest Nikon af .... It's a different experience. You just don t miss ever. The S2 af is like a truck competing with a Porsche.

 

Small items like a tree on ridge appear to be a lack of sensativity and low contrast subjects with high contrast backgrounds can fool the AF . I would always manually focus on this type of shot. It's just too easy to miss the target.

 

Probably the biggest challenge is the shallow DOF and the level of detail recorded. You just can not miss by anything . Take the bride and groom coming down the aisle directly at you. Better bring your A game. I can manually focus faster than the s2 will track someone walking directly at you. So it all depends on matching the capabilities with skills and having reasonable expectations.

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[mwilliamsphotography]

Roger, your example of the B&G coming down the aisle toward me, or more importantly the Bride and her Dad, is a good one ... you often only get one optimal shot.

 

Nothing I've used to date for these type shots has been fool-proof ... so I always use flash and AFs ... but developed an AFs technique of follow focus as they move toward me with light taps of the shutter button until they reach the right distance, then one smooth push for the shot. At that point, the lens doesn't have far to lock on. AFc just doesn't work reliably with any camera I've tried ... the subject motion is often too erratic.

 

I don't use the H4D/40 for these shots and probably wouldn't use the S2 for them either. If I did, I'd shoot at f/5.6 or 8 and focus manually on a predetermined point ... and just wait. That's how I did it when using a Manual Focus Hassey V camera. However, I haven't tried it yet so who knows ... it my be fine using the same technique as I do with 35mm DSLRs.

 

Not much time to work with the S2 AF today ... but hope to give it a workout tomorrow.

 

-Marc

[glenerrolrd]

Marc

 

I think the S2 AF is very accurate but does not incorporate some of the "intelligence" you get with a DSLR . I tried follow focus on a car,a bike and people walking toward me and at an angle. This isn t a strength of the S2 . But I believe that it will get better as I gain a feel for what works.

[Arif]

Roger, your example of the B&G coming down the aisle toward me, or more importantly the Bride and her Dad, is a good one ... you often only get one optimal shot.

 

Nothing I've used to date for these type shots has been fool-proof ... so I always use flash and AFs ... but developed an AFs technique of follow focus as they move toward me with light taps of the shutter button until they reach the right distance, then one smooth push for the shot. At that point, the lens doesn't have far to lock on. AFc just doesn't work reliably with any camera I've tried ... the subject motion is often too erratic.

 

I don't use the H4D/40 for these shots and probably wouldn't use the S2 for them either. If I did, I'd shoot at f/5.6 or 8 and focus manually on a predetermined point ... and just wait. That's how I did it when using a Manual Focus Hassey V camera. However, I haven't tried it yet so who knows ... it my be fine using the same technique as I do with 35mm DSLRs.

 

Not much time to work with the S2 AF today ... but hope to give it a workout tomorrow.

 

-Marc

 

Hi Marc,

I agree that the Flash and AFs does work well with the S2. I tried it with a dance performance of a Maiko and it worked well in 90+% of the shots. Hope the last S2 works for you.

 

Arif

[glenerrolrd]

Hi Marc,

I agree that the Flash and AFs does work well with the S2. I tried it with a dance performance of a Maiko and it worked well in 90+% of the shots. Hope the last S2 works for you.

 

Arif

 

Depends on your expectations for AF. For most subjects the AF is very accurate. But.... It can be fooled by backgrounds with high contrast. If the decide point of focus is very small and it hunts ,you need to go manual. And it does not follow focus on faster moving subjects.

 

If a person is evaluating and S2 as an upgrade to say a D3x then the AF is a step down in capability. Considering the shallow DOF that can be a problem.

 

With enough skill the photographer can overcome the AF limitations but just like the M9 some will have focusing issues. So this is an area to pay attention to if you are testing an

S2.

 

With that said I very much like the S2 and look forward to using it for action photography. In 2 weeks we will have a major professional kiteboarding event . Typically speeds of 20 mph . This will be a good test as I have shot the event with everything from an M8'DMR D3 and D7000. This will be interesting as I expect that I will use MF .

[mwilliamsphotography]

I think you are right Roger ... the S2 is exactly what it was positioned as ... and inbetweener.

 

Accept its limitations compared to a top end DSLR while accepting it's advantages in IQ, and likewise embrace the advantages over a traditional modular MFD while surrendering certain traditional MFD advantages like use on a view, or tech camera.

 

Limited DOF is actually a bit less of an issue compare to a MFD with a 1.1X or no crop factor, and even a bit less than my H4D/40 with a 1.3X considering the sensor size.

 

Then there is the skill factor. I've not used a single new camera that was instantly maxed out in what I can do with it right away. That just takes time.

 

-Marc

[tom0511]

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I have now shot the S2 3 days in different conditions and have to say I find the AF overall very accurate. It is for sure slower than a good DSLR, and continous AF is not usable (didnt expect it to be) but the accurancy is much better than I had hoped for (and better than my eyes with manual focus). This is good. Still I dont know if I wanted to shoot sports or action with this camera.

[carstenw]

I have now shot the S2 3 days in different conditions and have to say I find the AF overall very accurate. It is for sure slower than a good DSLR, and continous AF is not usable (didnt expect it to be) but the accurancy is much better than I had hoped for (and better than my eyes with manual focus). This is good. Still I dont know if I wanted to shoot sports or action with this camera.

 

Well, Tom, then you had better decide right now if you want that S2 or not, because the camera in your hands doesn't have the most common problem that these cameras show Don't let this one go if you want it.

[tom0511]

Well, Tom, then you had better decide right now if you want that S2 or not, because the camera in your hands doesn't have the most common problem that these cameras show Don't let this one go if you want it.

 

Ha, Carsten - you are probably right but this is just a test camera also with the old display (which is not so easy to see).

But in case I would get a S2 I now know what is possible and I would for sure keep Leica busy until my sample would work as good as the one I have tested.

[mwilliamsphotography]

Well, I'm keeping mine. It's a keeper ...!

 

Did more extensive test shooting, and for the most part the AF was pretty quick and very accurate 95% of the time ... which is as good as any 35mm DSLR I've worked with save the top pro models.

 

Perhaps Lloyd's use of the Beta version of the new firmware is where the anomaly lies ... or I've become better at picking the target ... I have no idea, and actually don't care since this one works correctly.

 

Sweet camera ... can't wait to put it to work.

 

-Marc

[carstenw]

Marc, you always got along with your Hasselblads very well, so I am surprised to discover that you were considering the Leica S2. What prompted the change?

[mwilliamsphotography]

Marc, you always got along with your Hasselblads very well, so I am surprised to discover that you were considering the Leica S2. What prompted the change?

 

Good question Carsten, and deserves a thorough answer because it was not an easy decision process.

 

First of all, I will still keep a Hasselblad kit ... I never saw the S2 as a replacement. I initially decided to move the H kit upwards with either a H4D/50 Multi-Shot or the H4D/60 to clearly separate it from any other digital solution ... and to continue using the digital back on my Rollie Xact2 studio camera, as well as for work requiring the higher max 1/800th sync speed of the H camera.

 

For some time now, I've wanted a focal plane MFD level camera with good fast aperture lenses like my former Contax 645 to shoot wide open apertures in brighter available light. I've mentioned this for a long time on GetDPI, and had hoped Hassey would offer a focal plane body. That increasingly became highly unlikely. I've never took to the Mamiya 645 camera in any version, (and the newer Pentax doesn't fit my need either). When the S2 was announced I thought it to be the perfect solution, but initial testing over a year ago proved it wasn't ready for my applications ... plus, the 180 was in short supply and the 35mm wasn't available at all.

 

I also questioned the look of the S2 files being initially published back then ... not the IQ, the character. That has since changed as more and more people got the S2 and began working with the files. As others have mentioned, don't know what happened, but it seemed to suddenly change ... and the S2 images looked more natural and less clinical. Maybe LR3.2 was the change, maybe the learning curve? Who knows, but it definitely changed ... not only to my eye but also to many others.

 

I have always positionad the S2 more as a replacement for a 35mm DSLR the way I use a 35mm DSLR ... having spent a King's ransom on various Pro DSLRs and have never been really satisfied with the IQ (unfortunately, using a MFD spoils you). I longed for a more true replacement for the CCD sensor equipped DMR which provided the IQ if not the resolution, but functionally never filled my handling needs, and lacked AF.

 

Despite rationale' and reports to the contrary ... IMO, the S2 is more compact for packing, much easier to take with than the modular MFD camera systems. I simply see it as much more mobile. This kit allows me to up my game for a lot of event, portrait and wedding work, as well as corporate/advertising location assignments especially involving people and moving from one location to another very swiftly. I am equipping the S2 with a dual lug ARCA type QR plate with a Camadapter hand strap and shoulder strap ... put the other two lenses in a Think-Tank lens bag, and I'm good to go just about anywhere ... even on the run.

 

For the time being, my back-up for this kit will be a Sony A900 with 24-70 zoom (usually carried by my assistant). I'd eventually like to get it down to the S2 and M9 which now provide a remarkably similar look and feel when the newer ASPH lenses are used on the M9. The Sony will then be relegated to languishing in the SUV just in case. But that decision is over a year away after one full season doing weddings, etc.

 

Finally, Leica's handling of the issues ... the open dialog, and swift reaction was a major factor in making the final decision.

 

Not to mention that I got a pretty good deal by buying the entire kit all at once, and it is damned hard to part with once you have it in hand even for a little while : -)

 

I will now sell the H4D/40 which is redundant.

 

Sorry for the longish post.

 

-Marc

[plevyadophy]

Good question Carsten, and deserves a thorough answer because it was not an easy decision process.

 

First of all, I will still keep a Hasselblad kit ... I never saw the S2 as a replacement. I initially decided to move the H kit upwards with either a H4D/50 Multi-Shot or the H4D/60 to clearly separate it from any other digital solution ... and to continue using the digital back on my Rollie Xact2 studio camera, as well as for work requiring the higher max 1/800th sync speed of the H camera.

 

For some time now, I've wanted a focal plane MFD level camera with good fast aperture lenses like my former Contax 645 to shoot wide open apertures in brighter available light. I've mentioned this for a long time on GetDPI, and had hoped Hassey would offer a focal plane body. That increasingly became highly unlikely. I've never took to the Mamiya 645 camera in any version, (and the newer Pentax doesn't fit my need either). When the S2 was announced I thought it to be the perfect solution, but initial testing over a year ago proved it wasn't ready for my applications ... plus, the 180 was in short supply and the 35mm wasn't available at all.

 

I also questioned the look of the S2 files being initially published back then ... not the IQ, the character. That has since changed as more and more people got the S2 and began working with the files. As others have mentioned, don't know what happened, but it seemed to suddenly change ... and the S2 images looked more natural and less clinical. Maybe LR3.2 was the change, maybe the learning curve? Who knows, but it definitely changed ... not only to my eye but also to many others.

 

I have always positionad the S2 more as a replacement for a 35mm DSLR the way I use a 35mm DSLR ... having spent a King's ransom on various Pro DSLRs and have never been really satisfied with the IQ (unfortunately, using a MFD spoils you). I longed for a more true replacement for the CCD sensor equipped DMR which provided the IQ if not the resolution, but functionally never filled my handling needs, and lacked AF.

 

Despite rationale' and reports to the contrary ... IMO, the S2 is more compact for packing, much easier to take with than the modular MFD camera systems. I simply see it as much more mobile. This kit allows me to up my game for a lot of event, portrait and wedding work, as well as corporate/advertising location assignments especially involving people and moving from one location to another very swiftly. I am equipping the S2 with a dual lug ARCA type QR plate with a Camadapter hand strap and shoulder strap ... put the other two lenses in a Think-Tank lens bag, and I'm good to go just about anywhere ... even on the run.

 

For the time being, my back-up for this kit will be a Sony A900 with 24-70 zoom (usually carried by my assistant). I'd eventually like to get it down to the S2 and M9 which now provide a remarkably similar look and feel when the newer ASPH lenses are used on the M9. The Sony will then be relegated to languishing in the SUV just in case. But that decision is over a year away after one full season doing weddings, etc.

 

Finally, Leica's handling of the issues ... the open dialog, and swift reaction was a major factor in making the final decision.

 

Not to mention that I got a pretty good deal by buying the entire kit all at once, and it is damned hard to part with once you have it in hand even for a little while : -)

 

I will now sell the H4D/40 which is redundant.

 

Sorry for the longish post.

 

-Marc

 

Hi,

 

And a Happy New Year to you Sir.

 

Just curious about something.

 

You say that you specifically wanted a focal plane shuttered camera/lens combo.

 

Why?

 

I would have thought that in-lens shutters would be much much better as they allow for a faster flash sync speed.

 

Thanks in advance.

 

Regards,

 

plevyadophy.

[mwilliamsphotography]

Hi,

 

And a Happy New Year to you Sir.

 

Just curious about something.

 

You say that you specifically wanted a focal plane shuttered camera/lens combo.

 

Why?

 

I would have thought that in-lens shutters would be much much better as they allow for a faster flash sync speed.

 

Thanks in advance.

 

Regards,

 

plevyadophy.

 

Because I have a full Hasselblad H4D system ... with a H4D/60 to do that sort of bigger job, full flash sync work ... including on a view camera.

 

For limited need fill flash with more open apertures, I'll use the SF58 with High Speed Sync up to 1/4000th. The S2 replaces the 35mm DSLRs not the Hasselblad.

 

1/800th sync speed for every HC lens, and the multi-use digital back is why I have the H system.

 

However, for a lot of my work I don't like to use flash unless I have to.

 

I will most likely eventually get the S120 macro in the CS version with a 1/500th sync speed for close-up work to gain DOF, and for portraits using Strobes outdoors against powerful back lighting etc.

 

-Marc

[glenerrolrd]

marc

 

I was looking at a similar set up for carrying my s2 kit. are you using the think tank retrospective 2 lens bag? Are the lens openings large enough with the hoods in place. I prefer to leave the hood in position so that the lens is ready. The problem as you must know is that a carry bag that holds the full kit is too big for comfort so I assume that the lens bag makes it workable.

[carstenw]

Thanks for the detailed answer, Marc. Makes a lot of sense put that way. I didn't realize that shutter speed was a limitation for you in the wedding field, as I think of it as dim churches and receptions and full-lighting posed shots, but I guess there is a lot more to it than that.

 

Interesting point about the similar look from the M9 and S2. Have you compared dynamic range and noise, or do you just mean the basic look to files in good light situations?

 

I had an S2 in my hands recently, and have to admit that it was a very nice camera. I had a little trouble focusing right, but at least the manual focus is something I expect I could adjust to. The AF may have been off, I am not sure, as I couldn't test much. The one thing that felt awkward to me was the image navigation controls. It would do a world of good if Leica would add an A900-style joystick for just those few tasks where a proper orientation control makes more sense. A couple of dedicated buttons for this and that wouldn't hurt, but on the whole, the joystick thing was the only thing I would have trouble adjusting to.

[mwilliamsphotography]

marc

 

I was looking at a similar set up for carrying my s2 kit. are you using the think tank retrospective 2 lens bag? Are the lens openings large enough with the hoods in place. I prefer to leave the hood in position so that the lens is ready. The problem as you must know is that a carry bag that holds the full kit is too big for comfort so I assume that the lens bag makes it workable.

 

Yes, it is the Retrospect LC2 lens bag, and yep the 35, 70 and 180 fit with lens hoods mounted ready to go. They fit so perfectly that it seems like the bag was custom made for the S lenses ... I kid you not. The 180 with the hood mounted is exactly the right height so you can still close the flap with a little space to spare. Has pockets for WB Xrite card and CFs. I like it better than most any lens bag I've tried, because it stands up on its own ... it has structure to the base.

 

Really makes it easy to go mobile with 3 lenses.

 

-Marc

[mwilliamsphotography]

Thanks for the detailed answer, Marc. Makes a lot of sense put that way. I didn't realize that shutter speed was a limitation for you in the wedding field, as I think of it as dim churches and receptions and full-lighting posed shots, but I guess there is a lot more to it than that.

 

Interesting point about the similar look from the M9 and S2. Have you compared dynamic range and noise, or do you just mean the basic look to files in good light situations?

 

I had an S2 in my hands recently, and have to admit that it was a very nice camera. I had a little trouble focusing right, but at least the manual focus is something I expect I could adjust to. The AF may have been off, I am not sure, as I couldn't test much. The one thing that felt awkward to me was the image navigation controls. It would do a world of good if Leica would add an A900-style joystick for just those few tasks where a proper orientation control makes more sense. A couple of dedicated buttons for this and that wouldn't hurt, but on the whole, the joystick thing was the only thing I would have trouble adjusting to.

 

I understand the point about the navigation Carsten ... however, you can customize it to bring up most used functions. The other thing is that you have to get used to one wheel rather than two, The manual shutter speeds are the old fashioned dial ... but I re-adjusted to that pretty quickly. One thing I have to investigate is how to get to exposure comp as quickly as possible when shooting in aperture priority.

 

But, you know, it took me months to get used to the Sony ... and in the rush of a wedding shoot I still press the wrong button at the wrong time and it brings up the info panel, and it takes me a few minutes to remember how to get the full screen preview back : -( I almost threw the camera in a pond once because of that ... LOL!

 

I'm hoping that as the camera develops and new firmware is introduced, some functions can be assigned to one push buttons ... for example, the Hassey H cameras got new firmware that allows you to very easily assign the WB function to any user button ... I have the stop-down button on the front of the grip assigned to shoot an instant WB shot. No menu to access ... just press the button, the camera fires and sets the white balance. I use it all the time because it is so fast and easy.

 

The M9 similarity I've noted is the potential punch and rich black with clean brights ... and not in just good light. I think anther month or so working with these files will help.

 

How's this for AF ... 35mm grab shot ... swing around backwards while shooting a brusquely moving subject in the wind @ f/2.8 to keep the shutter speed up ... LOL! To me, the other color shot feels a bit M9 with an ASPH lens in color and snap ... but almost twice the resolution.

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Marc

 

Sorry if this is off topic, but can you confirm that the three lenses fit in the LC2 .... Or do you mean two and one on camera?

 

Thanks and I agree about the M9 look above, especially the b and w

 

Ed

[mwilliamsphotography]

Marc

 

Sorry if this is off topic, but can you confirm that the three lenses fit in the LC2 .... Or do you mean two and one on camera?

 

Thanks and I agree about the M9 look above, especially the b and w

 

Ed

 

Ed, It is one lens on camera and the other two lenses in the LC2.

 

Basically it is a quick change lens bag for mobile work with a full over-flap that folds completely back behind the bag, and is structured well enough to avoid spills when open. I use it when shooting portraits on location, moving around a wedding or event, or anywhere I'm mobile and don't want to lug around the entire roller bag full of gear. I often have it in my vehicle and pick lenses from the main bag, then go mobile. It is tall but not wide and fits nicely in the small of your back ... swings out front so you can change lenses. Great for walk-abouts in urban or historic areas ... I wish I had one when I visited St.Augustine FL where you are on foot a lot.

 

ThinkTANK also makes a Retrospective LC3 version which carries 3 lenses up to 70-200 zoom sizes. I may also get that one so I can take the SF58 speed-light ... but really like to keep it as small as possible when mobile.

 

-Marc