Leica complaint

[richard gordon]

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On Sept. 30th I received a new M9, unpacked it, and there was a firmware glitch and my 50 Summicron would not mount on that body (mounts fine on my M6 and then M8.2 as well as two other film bodies). Foto Care in NYC was great and exchanged the camera immediately without any problem and with full support. I cannot speak highly enough of them.

 

On the other hand, Leica has been as responsive as a politician caught with a hooker. On Oct. 1, I sent an email to Leica USA and Mark Brady responded within an hour (the top brass should take a hint from him) and forwarded my concerns to Roger Horn--head of Leica USA, and to Christian Erhardt, also in the USA, and to product manager of the M system in Germany, Stefan Daniel.

 

I heard nothing, nada, from these three gentlemen and on Oct. 8, I called Mr. Horn. He was very pleasant and said that he would contact Mr. Daniel. As of today, I've yet to hear a peep of explanation or apology. Again, not a peep, email,nothing.

 

I've been a Leica user for over 40 years (and anyone interested can look at B&W Magazine #79 on the stands now to see some of my film work--all 3:2 pics done with Leicas, or anyone in San Francisco between 10/30 and 1/30/11 can see some of my prints made with Leicas and printed on a V35 at the SFMOMA exhibit, Exposed).

 

So, unless you are dealing with a reputable and responsive dealer, be care buying this camera. The second one seems to be fine save for the poorly designed frame lines to recording ratio, but that is true of all of Leica's digital cameras.

 

Richard Gordon

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[Guest Overview]

Yes, you are dead on about using a reputable dealer. Maybe you pay a few more bucks

then these bargain basement guys.... but it's worth having a good and honest supplier

behind you if there is a problem.

I may be a bit strange, but I use a top mounted finder for all my lenses. I can really

see! The camera rangefinder is just used for focusing. (and it helps keep my nose off

the display as I am left-eyed). Enjoy!

[earleygallery]

It's annoying to find problems with any new purchase but you did the correct thing in returning to the dealer you bought the camera from - your contract of purchase is with them after all.

 

As the dealer resolved the problem I'm not sure what you expected from Leica? If the senior managers spent their time apologising personally to every unhappy customer I doubt they'd have time to run the company. I'm not saying Leica have lots of quality issues, just that Leica customers can be somewhat 'high maintenance' IMHO.

 

Mr Daniel was probably trying to get Frank off the phone when your e mail popped up in his inbox.

[ho_co]

Richard, welcome to the forum!

 

Sorry that you join us with a problem.

 

From what you said, I don't know why the 50/2 wouldn't mount. Can you describe the symptoms? Did it not rotate at all? Did it not rotate far enough for the locking pin to pop up? Did it rotate fare enough for the locking pin to rise, but it didn't? (You didn't say whether you tried other lenses on the M9.)

 

And you say there was also a firmware glitch. Can you be more specific?

 

You've obviously had a lot of experience with Leica, so this has to be especially disappointing for you. I'm glad your dealer was able to get the problem squared away.

 

Many of us on the forum, and Leica as well, recognize the importance of having a reliable dealer.

 

I'm curious--what kind of response do you want from Leica? You say they've been very pleasant and responsible on the phone, and you say there isn't a problem now because the dealer fixed it. So as I see it, they'll see again how important a good dealer is to shortstop problems (Gold Star to Foto Care!), and they'll notify Solms that your first camera wouldn't accept a specific lens. That's all important information, but unless you had kept the camera and sent it in, they aren't likely to be able to explain what happened. So I'm a little unsure what you would like them to do.

 

At any rate, welcome again to the forum. There are a lot of good people here, and we all understand why you'd be upset to get a bad M9.

 

 

Edit--As usual, two other folks responded during the time I was typing, and James made one of the same points I did. It's as Stefan Daniel said in the recent MegaPixel video interview (

), "Leica is maybe a big name, but a small company." Edited October 21, 2010 by ho_co

[cheewai_m6]

i think it's bad luck you got a faulty product. i also think it's right that your dealer did everything he could've to help you. my opinion is however, expecting apologies or emails/phone calls from any of the high up guys is unreasonable. your dealer's done what he can, that's all you can expect. management is never about the details, it's always about the bigger picture.

 

your dealer represents leica also, so him doing all he can is leica doing all they can. if you bought a porsche, and there was a fault with it, would you expect someone from their management to apologise to you? you'd expect your dealer to do all they can and that's it.

[glenerrolrd]

Sorry I don t get your recommendation? You received a faulty camera (happens to too many buyers of the digital M s ). You are lucky the dealer can replace the camera from stock . Good but you sure can t count on this with most dealers .(does you dealer have a hot swap program where they by design have an extra body ? ) You inform Leica and they initially don t respond but then when you get them on the phone they promise you your concerns will be handled. Then nothing . You are surprised and disappointed .

 

So the conclusion is pay more (or wait a long time) if you need to because the dealer is required to get any support out of Leica ?

 

How about this way. You call Leica provide them with all the necessary information. They give you a shipping label and arrange for a pick up at your convenience . (overnight ). They immediately inspect your camera ..finding that indeed you did know how to mount a 50 summicron and your camera needs repair. Since its new they ship you a new one from their stock that they maintain for replacements . If they don t have any they try to repair your camera in 48 hours so that at most you lose a week. They send you an email keeping you informed and a tracking number so you can be sure to locate your replacement.

 

You get a personal note from Roger and a certificate for a discount on futures purchases.

 

A dealer can provide valuable services to many buyers and certainly being able to get a new exchange seems beneficial ....until you realize how incredibly inefficient the process is. But thats just my opinion and yours may differ.

Edited October 22, 2010 by glenerrolrd

[Rick]

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... Leica has been as responsive as a politician caught with a hooker. I heard nothing, nada, ...As of today, I've yet to hear a peep of explanation or apology. Again, not a peep, email,nothing.

 

I've been a Leica user for over 40 years (and anyone interested can look at B&W Magazine #79 on the stands now to see some of my film work--all 3:2 pics done with Leicas, or anyone in San Francisco between 10/30 and 1/30/11 can see some of my prints made with Leicas and printed on a V35 at the SFMOMA exhibit, Exposed).

 

Not again? These posts are getting comical. I can't believe the things I've read here over the last three years from "professionals." You guys have to be one of the most spoiled and childish groups of professionals I've had the chance to read. Richard, this is your first post here! And, you have a public tantrum. Congratulations.

 

Ok, let's get started. You bought a camera. Not a heart valve. Why do you care if Stephan Daniels calls you? You got a new camera. What do you want? Your a*ss kissed?

 

Next, because you brought it up... I was in the grocery store tonight and, by coincident, I saw your photo's in B&W Magazine. They were the ones that included the rear view of a girl crawling on the floor looking like she was taking a picture of a wall outlet, right? They were ok. So were all the other snap shots in that magazine and so are all the others that they print every month. Does that mean Leica should have their product manager get up in the middle of the night, put his kid gloves on, and call you from Germany to explain why your particular old lens doesn't work on your new camera?

 

Moderator, can't we just have an FAQ for this? I'd be happy to write the boiler plate copy: Are you a professional photographer? First time on the site? Do you feel that you have somehow been personally wronged because a Leica product actually didn't work as expected? Would you like to cravenly take a swipe at Leica in a public forum where you know they won't be able to respond? Please, cut and paste the stock "open letter to Leica" copy and fill in your details. Select if you would like to threaten legal action or if you just want Stephen or the Dr. to respond to you with an obsequious apology.

 

One last thing, why would a "firmware" problem keep the lens from "mounting" on your camera?

Edited October 22, 2010 by RickLeica

[zlatkob]

As the dealer resolved the problem I'm not sure what you expected from Leica?

 

I think this quote is what it comes down to. When I first read the original post, I thought you were still waiting for some resolution to a problem and couldn't get either a resolution or a reply. But on re-reading, I gather that the problem was resolved immediately by the dealer. There was a fault and you got a replacement as quickly as humanly possible. I'm not sure what else there is to do at this point.

 

By the way, as you can see, any comment critical of Leica will get you a nasty tongue-lashing in which your credentials are questioned and your work is criticized.

[redbaron]

If you you buy a camera from a shop your contract of sale is with them, not Leica.

[Rick]

By the way, as you can see, any comment critical of Leica will get you a nasty tongue-lashing in which your credentials are questioned and your work is criticized.

 

You have to be the most passive aggressive person I've ever run across.

 

First, you make the excuse that you read his post incorrectly. Now, (that he is called on his unreasonable expectation) you want to be on record as not initially understand his point. Then, you try and slip in the comment that being critical of Leica will get you some "nasty tongue-lashing" for being critical of Leica?"

 

Z, he isn't being critical of Leica. He is asking for an apology from the Chief Product Manager of the company for getting a camera that has, arguably, a "firmware" problem that keeps him from "mounting" his 50mm Summicron. Huh?

 

Don't you think you might be the one with the biased agenda around here? You crack me up.

Edited October 22, 2010 by RickLeica

[zlatkob]

My comment was accurate and descriptive. On the one hand, the post is titled as a complaint and sounds like a complaint. On the other hand, it seems the problem was fully & quickly resolved. Despite that, he is making a critical comment. For which you give him an aggressive tongue-lashing that extends to his profession and the quality of his work. We've seen that sort of meanness before. Contrast your reply with the more reasonable replies in this thread.

 

And I think you've misunderstood the problem. It wasn't a firmware glitch that prevented the lens from mounting; it was a firmware glitch and the lens would not mount.

[Rick]

Z, your comment was not accurate and descriptive. No one (myself) is tongue-lashing him because he was critical of Leica. He wasn't critical. He was asking for a personal apology call from the CPO, Stephen Daniels, because he was sold a (possible) defective camera which was promptly replaced with a new one!

 

And, why can't I criticize his work. He brought it up and bragged about it. So, I searched and evaluated. My opinion: Good photographs but, no jaw-droppers. I do like the one of the girl on her hands and knees, though. Go look at Leicashots' pictures or Jamie's wedding photo's if you want jaw-droppers. Just my opinion. Not a nasty tongue lashing.

 

There are a lot of talented photographers here. They don't complain about needing a personal apology call from SD because their camera had a boo-boo. And, really, I'm not picking on the guy because he made a "critical comment of Leica." Rather, because he is sitting by his phone waiting for Herr Daniels to apologize. Do you really not see the absurdity in that? Or, are you blinded by his professional fame?

Edited October 22, 2010 by RickLeica

[elansprint72]

Could we not just split this forum into two- a camera forum for the B Ark characters who pitch up here thinking that this place is somehow connected to Leica AG, and a photography forum for the photographers?

[Guest stnami]

There are a lot of talented photographers here

...... no they are few and far between:) Edited October 22, 2010 by stnami

[chris_tribble]

could we not just split this forum into two- a camera forum for the b ark characters who pitch up here thinking that this place is somehow connected to leica ag, and a photography forum for the photographers?

+1+1 +1+1+1 +1+1+1 +1+1+1 +1+1+1 +1+1+1 +1+1+1 +1+1+1 +1

[wizard]

...it was a firmware glitch and the lens would not mount.

 

So what? The OP got his camera replaced on the spot, thus eliminating the software glitch AND the lens mounting issue, so where exactly is the problem? Read Ricks post again, he is dead on. If I buy a faulty product and get a replacement no questions asked, I frankly do not care what the manufacturer says about that, it is their problem anyway. I consider my personal time too precious to go after the manufacturer of any given product and ask them 'Oh, btw, what happened to that camera I was originally sold?'. Gimme a break guys, this is ridiculous.

 

Andy

[Guest stnami]

Then again being a wizard must make you very special:D

Edited October 22, 2010 by stnami

[wizard]

You bet .

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Hallo,

Look here: Interesting Leica gear

[Per P.]

Could we not just split this forum into two- a camera forum for the B Ark characters who pitch up here thinking that this place is somehow connected to Leica AG, and a photography forum for the photographers?

 

It would actually be worth considering a subforum for Complaints, Rants and Chairman CEO Suggestions. An occassional read could spice up the day for anyone. Maybe even including the good folks at Leica

 

Meanwhile I agree with Rick that there's a lot of photographic talent on this forum. As documented very convincingly in the LUF Book

[earleygallery]

Reading this thread again reminded me of a sketch on Not the Nine O Clock News (had a look on You Tube but can't find it).

 

Couple in a restuarant, the man notices his fork is dirty and asks casually for a new one. The waiter is shocked, very apologetic and says he will call the head waiter over - the man is saying, No, just a new fork is fine.

 

The head waiter comes over, is distraught, apologetic, and says he will summon the Manager to the table. This goes on and culminates with the head chef coming out from the kitchen carrying a large knife, crying, hysterically, saying how they have failed everyone, etc etc and decides the only way to really apologise for it is to plunge the knife into himself there and then!