The announcement that did not happen M10 at 10-10-10

[Guest BigSplash]

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In a separate thread about Photokina there seems to be a consensus that all is well at Leica and that there was no need to bring out a M10 at this time, or even soon. I hope that Leica however have a M10 under wraps in adavanced development. There was also a feeling that the lens line up was (with arguably a few holes) excellent and here I fully agree ...I cannot think of any competing camera system that comes close.

 

I remain however disappointed that we had no exciting announcement for M users. I see four areas that I would like to have seen addressed:

1. A new camera M10...that I would want to buy and commercially could keep the production lines pushed to keep up with an ever growing backlog.
   
2. Significant improvements to the QC of new cameras leaving the factory, and a full out attack on improving the reliability / ruggedness of the camera such that it again becomes the camera of choice for professionals in war zones as it was in the Vietnam era.
   
3. Accessories that support the appeal to photographers in different market segments: Close Up work with bellows (I shall not use the V word as EVIL, Live view should do the same job), leather cases for travelling executives, a mini tripod that has a small ball (not the large one that Leica has in its catalogue today), etc etc.
   
4. A cost reduced entry model that may use plastic moulding for the case and be built in volume under subcontract rather than hand assembled at Solms
   

I have opted so far to NOT buy the M9 as I am eager to see the M10 when it eventually surfaces...and for me my M8 gives the same result as an M9 anyway. I guess if I have to wait 5 years for a M10 I may change my mind and buy the M9 however my ideal would be a camera (M10) with the following improvements:

• CMOS full frame sensor that gives the same (or better) image quality as CCD without aliasing filter. My gut feel is that since every top of the market camera uses CMOS Leica will need to go this route eventually. Leica confirmed they were looking at alternative sensors at the Photokina Q&A. With CMOS you get the advantage of being able to implement LiveView....and HD Video if this is a need.
  
• Better dynamic ISO range for the sensor (less blacks in shadows)
  
• ISO of order 50 through to a usable 1000 without heavy noise / grain at 1000. OK others will want 10,000+ but I am less demanding. I think ISO 160 generic is too high.
  
• Much faster and better in camera processing of JPEG etc...by using a derivative of the S2 Maestro chip set.
  
• Better than 5fps in continuous mode (current spec of Nikon & Canon) against Leica M9 of 2fps
  
• Better than 20 frames in buffer memory (curent spec of Canon & Nikon) against 8 frames Leica M9
  
• Firmware with known problems eliminated (red line etc) plus tethering capability and the software plus accessories to use tethering and remote triggering sensibly.
  
• Flash sync connector added plus hot shoe retained
  
• Frame Counter and battery state display replaced as per M8 but an OLIM display should be used as it is small and nightime readable.
  
• A shutter speed of 1/8000th should be reinstated as I actually use this a lot with ISO 160
  
• The USB input should allow an external battery capability (Cold weather usage), wireless remote triggering, tethering , external GPS input
  
• The rear monitor should have a saphire glass protective cover as standard
  
• Features such as bracketing, manual lens selection that M9 now offers should be retained.
  
• Ideally Focus Verification if that does not increase the camera size.
  
• Ideally a camera size of M7 rather than M8.
  
• Rugged build quality that does not provoke a need to occassionaly readjust the rangefinder mechanism as can happen today.
  
• A la Carte engraving and choice of leathers and finishes.
  
• Chrome Silver, and Chrome Black as Standard plus plated titanium (Ie not solid!) finishes with leather cover...possibly a Safari Green with a few lenses would be nice also as specials!
  

The above is the camera I would buy at a price of £5000 as I see it as giving me significantly more than my M8. I live in hope that one day it will be available.

I am interested to understand if others especially M8 users have a similar view of what they would like to see coming from Solms in 2011, 2012 .

[redbaron]

Please do not feed the troll! Please!

[stunsworth]

Please do not feed the troll! Please!

 

We should be thankful - small mercies and all that - that Frank appears to have dropped mention of the 'V' word.

[Guest BigSplash]

We should be thankful - small mercies and all that - that Frank appears to have dropped mention of the 'V' word.

 

Steve you see I am learning...!

Any comments on the substance of what I have written? I actually think that there is a lot to debate and hopefully if Leica do read these pages they can take note of

 

My guess is that they now will start the difficult job of keeping the M9 plus its lenses revenue flowing in. Let's face it after many months of the huge backlog that they have enjoyed it is now likely that some backlog will reduce as double ordering is corrected and product becomes exstock at dealers. This means I may get a good deal on a M9 and / or a lens in 2011. ...however I still would prefer to wait for a M10 according to the spec. above.

[aesop]

...try dumbing down, Frank - I bet it results in a marked improvement in your photography (both technically and artistically). My assumption here is that you feel you are being held back by the inadequacies of your current system.

[bill]

My assumption here is that you feel you are being held back by the inadequacies of your current system.

 

Better change it then; the sooner the better.

 

And that's it. I'm staying out of this thread from now on. The quicker people realise that trolls thrive on being responded to, the better.

 

Regards,

 

Bill

[giordano]

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Let's think of all the other possible announcements that also didn't happen yesterday, and be thankful.

[therefromhere]

My thoughts exactly. I'll live (happily) with my M8.2 till an M10 (or even an M9.5?) comes out.

 

HOWEVER. I think there is a huge, glaring hole in the Lens lineup. A 35 and 50 Summilux would be the perfect addition, don't you think? I'm sure they could sell a few if they made some.

[rosuna]

See the bright side of this: we will have peace until November 11th of 2011.

 

This is like measles. You have to go through it. The sooner, the better.

[Guest BigSplash]

...try dumbing down, Frank - I bet it results in a marked improvement in your photography (both technically and artistically). My assumption here is that you feel you are being held back by the inadequacies of your current system.

 

Aesop, hang on that is exactly what I have done!

• Is it not the case that I am clearly stating I am happy with my M8 (I do not even have a M8.2) and my stock of mostly old Leica lenses plus close up kit?
  
• Is it not the case I am saying that I am not rushing out to buy the M9 as many have done here simply because it is the latest and is FF.
  

I do NOT feel the inadequecies of the M8 at all and have said so many times:

• OK I agree that my 21mm is in fact a 28mm on the M8 but I can live with that for a few years.
  
• I rarely use an ISO number above 160. However I have done so a few times when I feel ISO 640 is not the quality I would like.
  
• The M9 is for me a retro step (not strong enough to say inadequate) with a 1/4000th top shutter speed as I use 1/8000th a lot. Likewise the loss of the framecounter and battery display is not good news.
  

I am stating my disappointment that the camera I would like to have is not available and nor are its accessories. Until that camera is available I stick with M8 as it remains in my view one of the best cameras in the world. I am against a nice fat Nikon or Canon as these beasts are not something I wish to carry around travelling internationally...they are bigger than my briefcase, and not a delight to use like my Leica M8 is.

 

That said I thought that the point of a forum like this was to express constructively what we photographers actually like, dislike and want. from Leica.....maybe I am wrong.

 

I have given my hopefully constructive inputs I hope others will follow suit rather than the usual clever remarks.

[Guest BigSplash]

My thoughts exactly. I'll live (happily) with my M8.2 till an M10 (or even an M9.5?) comes out.

 

HOWEVER. I think there is a huge, glaring hole in the Lens lineup. A 35 and 50 Summilux would be the perfect addition, don't you think? I'm sure they could sell a few if they made some.

 

We seem to be in sync on M8. ...glad I am not alone! OK the new lenses as usual have had their production issues but hopefully these will get sorted. I have used the lenses that you mention and I was amased that the 35mm in particular is such a useful and brilliant lens with excellent contrast.

 

The lenses that are missing I feel are:

• 75mm ASPH Summilux. I have the old one and it is a super lens that I use at full aperture very frequently for portrait stuff. I would believe that the same thing as an ASPH would be a welcome addittion to the lineup.
  
• A fast super wide angle lens of say 15mm would be great also. OK I know that the WATE provides 16mm (f4) and there is an 18mm (f4) , plus Zeiss and Voigtlander make super wide angle without the 6bit coding. Something faster than f4 using ASPH technology that Leica has would be pushing the limits further.
  

[Guest BigSplash]

Let's think of all the other possible announcements that also didn't happen yesterday, and be thankful.

 

John I agree . However the fact that you make that comment at all I guess is in itself concerning as I guess we all hope that Leica Camera AG will grow and be healthy on the back of a large backlog, exciting products etc.

 

I guess you are suggesting that after pushing out another CEO, after an extraordinary P&L turnaround driven by M9, which is now becoming ex stock and even being discounted there remain concerns for the future. Excuse me if you did not mean that, in which case please explain what you did mean.

 

I sure hope that they are getting ready with the life beyond the M9 feeding frenzy, and the exciting new lenses that are not shipping as fast as people want. I am sure they are.

[giordano]

please explain what you did mean.

 

Some of the announcements that weren't made yesterday were:

• Rush Limbaugh assassinated Barack Obama
  
• 33 miners in Chile killed by faulty rescue drill
  
• HM Revenue and Customs loses everyone's money and is doubling all taxes to make up the gap.
  

But if you really want to understand what I meant you need to read (or re-read) both GK Chesterton and Jorge Luis Borges.

[Guest BigSplash]

Some of the announcements that weren't made yesterday were:

• Rush Limbaugh assassinated Barack Obama
  
• 33 miners in Chile killed by faulty rescue drill
  
• HM Revenue and Customs loses everyone's money and is doubling all taxes to make up the gap.
  

But if you really want to understand what I meant you need to read (or re-read) both GK Chesterton and Jorge Luis Borges.

 

John I am sorry I thought that you are a serious person. My mistake.

[bybrett]

I think there is a huge, glaring hole in the Lens lineup. A 35 and 50 Summilux would be the perfect addition, don't you think? I'm sure they could sell a few if they made some.

 

Well that made me smile...

[Guest BigSplash]

Well that made me smile...

 

Brett you are right to smile. The 35mm is one that really shines ...I guess that you have one, I do not yet but I have used it and it is something special due to the high contrast I guess.

 

I have not yet tried for any long period of time the 50mm .... I guess that this is another exceptional lens however and on a M8 it becomes a 70mm so a great portrait lens I suppose.

 

I have been watching the BBC TV series "Spooks" and they seem to like to shoot many scenes with a sharp focus subject (portrait) and a fuzzy background which in my view is what in still photography Leica is so good at with the Summilux. Possibly the Leica lenses are well suited to this new fashion, or revival of the old.

 

For me this is a real strength of Leica lenses ...at full aperture corner to corner to sharpness, and with a fuzzy background.

[UliWer]

...

...at full aperture corner to corner to sharpness, and with a fuzzy background.

 

Well, we have read some examples of the fuzzy background now.

 

I don't think it's necessary trying to go on showing us that the corner to corner sharpness is just an announcement that will not happen in your postings.

[hoppyman]

.........I remain however disappointed that we had no exciting announcement for M users. .........

 

As part of the Q&A session, Herr Schopf emphasised that Leica Camera currently needs some time for financial recovery.

 

Regarding the Digital solution for R lenses we were further told that Leica Camera is looking into a mirrorless solution, but the precise specifications have not been decided (are still wide open). That POSSIBLE FUTURE design is presumed to accept M lenses with some system of adaption for the discontinued R glass.

 

Note that they also said that:

In the future, announcements will only be made when a product is deliverable.

 

 

Frank I think that you need to put up 30 million EURO for R&D or launch a takeover bid.

[redbaron]

Geoff, if you feed it you can clean up after it.

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Hallo,

Look here: Interesting Leica gear

[spylaw4]

 

------- Frank I think that you need to put up 30 million EURO for R&D or launch a takeover bid.

 

Letting Frank anywhere near their R&D would be a real disaster!