X1 to be developed further

[h00ligan]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

It is a shame there is zero competition for digital rangefinder photography.

[nigelb]

Like the X1, I noticed most of the negativity are generated by non-owners/users so must be taken with big bags of salt.

 

Ummm......That's why they are non-owners, because they made a reasoned decision that the camera wasn't for them and chose not to buy one - so negativity is natural. What's so difficult to understand about that. The same could be said about your total unbounded enthusiasm for the X1.

[phancj]

Ummm......That's why they are non-owners, because they made a reasoned decision that the camera wasn't for them and chose not to buy one - so negativity is natural. What's so difficult to understand about that. The same could be said about your total unbounded enthusiasm for the X1.

 

Dont recall saying this behavior is not comprehensible?

 

But that does beg the question: If you havent really used it, how will you know if it is good/bad for you? Some things you have to try before commenting? Otherwise it is all hearsay/speculation and should not be taken as seriously? Thats what I was trying to say.

 

And yes, there are lots of things I like about the X1, but "total unbounded enthusiasm" is stretching it. For me, I'd be happier if its smaller, has fullframe, faster lens, etc,etc but at this moment there is no camera like it at that size. I am enthusiastic, sure. "total unbounded" not.

[mjh]

Ummm......That's why they are non-owners, because they made a reasoned decision that the camera wasn't for them and chose not to buy one - so negativity is natural.

Is it really? If I spent my time denigrating products that for some reason or other I did not buy I had a busy life …

[pico]

LOL! I never heard it called that before.

 

Rocky

 

(It's about the Zombie pose for composing on the LCD.)

 

Credit properly goes to Nicole for that. Now I can never look at people using the pose without chuckling a bit.

[Photoskeptic]

I would really, really like to get an X1, especially after selling all my M gear. However, two items stopping me are a big deal: 1) shutter lag - had an LX1, been there done that and 2) recording a jpeg w/RAW, see #1. I believe Leica intended this camera for serious photographers. If so, get with it Leica! I have my hopes the upgrade will address these problems, but if not I'll wait for the X2. I am not holding my breath...

[contaxgary]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

Leica doesn't need to compete with the X100. I'm going to assume that Fuji will come up with a quality modern pro level fixed lens camera. If so, it will be well received and frankly, I doubt that Leica will have the ability to compete on a price/benefit playing field.

 

Fortunately for Leica, this really isn't a problem. All they need to do is come up with a small fixed lens camera with a full frame sensor, fast autofocus/manual focus and an instantaneous shutter release. This would not interfere with the M-digital line, nor would it compete with the Fuji product. Perhaps it would bump the X line to $2995, but it would keep Leica at the top of the small fixed lens camera world.

[J_Thompson]

All they need to do is come up with a small fixed lens camera with a full frame sensor, fast autofocus/manual focus and an instantaneous shutter release.

 

Almost from the begining, Leica was all about the Decisive Moment. With the X1's apparent shutter lag, ergo, you do not have a real Leica - you have a travel & snapshot camera. I really want to love the X1, but substantial changes need to be made before one resides in my Domke.

[barjohn]

I think a big holdup in FF is the fact that for mirrorless cameras using CDAF you need fast readout sensors. I haven't read about any of the current FF sensors being 60 FPS live view capable. By now the camera vendors know or should know that in general the public wants fast AF and if the sensor is going to slow you down to the point that your AF speed is slow, it probably is too risky to build a camera around it.

[contaxgary]

It isn't far away either. Not commercial but technically possible:

 

Canon develops world's largest CMOS sensor, shoots 60fps video in moonlight -- Engadget

[mjh]

All they need to do is come up with a small fixed lens camera with a full frame sensor, fast autofocus/manual focus and an instantaneous shutter release. This would not interfere with the M-digital line, nor would it compete with the Fuji product. Perhaps it would bump the X line to $2995, but it would keep Leica at the top of the small fixed lens camera world.

Easy to say but difficult to do … Also I don’t see a market for a fixed-lens FF camera.

[SJP]

Also I don’t see a market for a fixed-lens FF camera.

I do. A FF camera with a 35/1.4 ASPH and 10-20 Mpix CMOS (or CCD) would be a "must have" X2. Especially if it had a built in finder.

[mjh]

I do. A FF camera with a 35/1.4 ASPH and 10-20 Mpix CMOS (or CCD) would be a "must have" X2. Especially if it had a built in finder.

If you had solved the problem of how to build a FF live-view camera with a fast AF, why would you not go the whole way and build a system camera? A fixed-lens FF camera would be little more than an expensive curiosity.

[lars_bergquist]

What do you think he meant by the X100 being "an advertisement for the X1"? Perhaps the favorable public reaction to the X100 will inspire Leica to follow suit with a similar "retro" design of their own?

Any new medium-size sensor effort by Leica should have (a) a real finder with a marking for placing the focusing spot, and ( a lens focus ring that can be set and forgotten while I take pictures by zone focusing. You can call that "retro" if you will. Everything is retro, except those little boxes you hold in front of yourself while you look like a half-paralyzed idiot.

 

Humankind is deplorably retro because our sensory, perceptual and motoric equipment has not been updated in a million years. Maybe we should modernize the planet by committing species suicide. After all, an auto-chatter feature on our mobile phones would make ourselves completely superfluous. Think of the saving in carbon emissions!

 

The old man from the Upper Paleolithic

[contaxgary]

If you had solved the problem of how to build a FF live-view camera with a fast AF, why would you not go the whole way and build a system camera? A fixed-lens FF camera would be little more than an expensive curiosity.

 

I believe that they hinted at doing just that. I suspect that this solution will involve a new lens mount in a mirrorless solution that also has adapters for older Leica lenses. This will probably be their premier camera to carry them into the future.

 

From a practical perspective, a full frame fixed lens is not a must have, but I think that most of Leica sales are 'want' and not necessarily 'must have'. It is fully possible that Nikon and/or Canon will be entering the mirrorless market. Fuji is clearly going to be a player. Leica needs to decide how it can compete in tomorrows market. Do they go smaller, or larger with an optical finder? Do they offer the same sensor as the competitors? I hope that they get things figured out. Like said above, this is a decisive moment.

[mattnnz]

hmmmm I'll be taking pictures that are good enough to make prints from for years while you suckas wait around for the perfect camera. Meanwhile I will have taken pictures of the wonders of Vietnam, Thailand, Cambodia, and Nepal while everyone else hates and waits. 1000 shots and counting some good some bad but hmmm. .02$ US

[contaxgary]

I doubt that anyone on this board is waiting. I have seven 'M' cameras and many digital cameras. It is precisely the fact that we already have much of what we need that makes us more particular as to what we want. That said, I'm sure those with an X1 are having a great time with it. I've seen some really wonderful images coming from that camera.

[mattnnz]

I was mostly kidding around but I still think the X1 is still currently the only camera out there that does what it does which is produce print-worthy pic in a small point and shoot package. My friends think I have a cheap point and shoot but little do they know the little camera is really a big gun. I hope Leica continues in this vein maybe producing a full frame camera in this form factor. People who want interchangeable lenses miss the point. Also the manual focus really isn't that bad. Theoretically if the X100 could sent back in time to when I was leaving the US it would have been a contender for my $ but wont be out for a while in which time I have been using my X1 for over 6 months already today. A bird in the hand or a bird in a while. Do the math.

[NZDavid]

I don't see a huge need for a FF sensor. It's the IQ that matters. The IQ out of today's cameras with teeny tiny sensors beats DSLR IQ of a few years back -- at least at modest ISOs. Improvements in dynamic range make a huge difference, even if noise is still an issue at higher ISOs. Can't see what gain there would be in changing APS-C to FF for the X1, except maybe shallower DOF -- and sometimes the greater DOF you get with a smaller sensor camera can be advantageous. It could also be that AF speed with FF would be slower.

 

Faster AF speed is a must; various other tweaks are desirable, but I think attachment lenses would be the most worthwhile improvement longterm.

[Advertisement]

Hallo,

Look here: Interesting Leica gear

[ravinj]

A bird in the hand or a bird in a while. Do the math.

 

I believe a lot of X1 non-owners and a few owners have difficulty in getting a bird in hand. They are more worried about: getting a camera with faster AF, bigger aperture, being able to zoom, etc. Taking pictures is their last priority.