h00ligan Posted November 25, 2010 Share #561 Posted November 25, 2010 Advertisement (gone after registration) Thanks for the explanation John. I certainly see your points based on your history. Maybe it's an issue of how one came up in photography, new vs old..familiarity vs foreign. Despite not shooting film I still appreciate the simplicity of easy control..and greatly enjoyed manual focus. Which is why I'm here in the first place Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted November 25, 2010 Posted November 25, 2010 Hi h00ligan, Take a look here Should I take the M9 jump!. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
erdnusscn Posted November 25, 2010 Share #562 Posted November 25, 2010 Hi, Clive. I think you don't understand me very well. What I really careabout and what really matters,is the Dead Pixels of the brandnew M9 i owned. My Dealer made some test shots and he confirmed that there are Dead Pixels. So that he accepted my return. Yes, the dead Pixels bothered me a lot. I am worried about the Quality of the CCD. Besides, I have shotted analog pictures with some kind of rangefinders and since 2008 only with a M6. I know which Situation a Leica M works for. So I made my desicion to buy a M9. I did not and will never "complain that how ever hard I tried I just couldn't find the video". The M9 I bought has only one year warranty. And with my bad short experience, I think It is possible that the CCD will get other problems during the first year. Then it will probebly mean a long wait for a Repair in Solms. I know that Leica M9 is a good Carma. But for the price I don't want to take a risk of CCD-Problems. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clive Murray-White Posted November 25, 2010 Share #563 Posted November 25, 2010 OK - erdnusscn - We now understand each other and I'm sorry that your M9 did not work properly new out of the box - a depressing experience but nothing unusual, it happens for every single kind of product made and sold anywhere in the world. It does not seem to make any difference wether it is a very high quality product or something mass produced cheaply, nothing is perfect all the time, even companies like Toyota, noted for their reliability, are not exempt from problems. I think it may be human nature to think that if something has gone wrong once it may happen again - we seem born to worry. There's nothing wrong with the CCD design you just got a badly made one and by the law of chance you would be very very unlucky to get 2 bad CCDs one after the other. I seem to remember that the Canon 5Dmk11 had huge problems and people regularly talk of poor copies of lenses etc but somehow Canon seems big enough and bold enough to weather any storm - sadly Leica, with far less basic problems, suffers far more than Canon. If you had just said how sad you were and how your excitement was spoiled, I guess everybody on the thread would have said supportive things. All the best Clive - by the way did you buy another camera instead of the M9? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardM8 Posted November 25, 2010 Author Share #564 Posted November 25, 2010 Nice write-up Dannybuoy. Boy do I recognize a lot of things you said. I'm over the moon with my M8.2 too. Quite often I find myself just looking at this camera as it so beautiful even to look at. Is that silly or what?? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
erdnusscn Posted November 25, 2010 Share #565 Posted November 25, 2010 OK - erdnusscn - We now understand each other and I'm sorry that your M9 did not work properly new out of the box - a depressing experience but nothing unusual, it happens for every single kind of product made and sold anywhere in the world. It does not seem to make any difference wether it is a very high quality product or something mass produced cheaply, nothing is perfect all the time, even companies like Toyota, noted for their reliability, are not exempt from problems. I think it may be human nature to think that if something has gone wrong once it may happen again - we seem born to worry. There's nothing wrong with the CCD design you just got a badly made one and by the law of chance you would be very very unlucky to get 2 bad CCDs one after the other. I seem to remember that the Canon 5Dmk11 had huge problems and people regularly talk of poor copies of lenses etc but somehow Canon seems big enough and bold enough to weather any storm - sadly Leica, with far less basic problems, suffers far more than Canon. If you had just said how sad you were and how your excitement was spoiled, I guess everybody on the thread would have said supportive things. All the best Clive - by the way did you buy another camera instead of the M9? Hi Clive, thank you for your understanding. I did buy a sony Nex5 and a Leica M to Sony E-Mount adapter instead. Now i enjoy it with my CV and ZM lenses very much. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted November 25, 2010 Share #566 Posted November 25, 2010 I have no problem with a decision not to buy an M9 - why should I?- and I think you are right not to own a camera that induces angst. But one thing you must consider - you are just about the only one on the whole Internet to slam the image quality - certainly including all reviewers. Maybe, just maybe that could be pilot error? And what chance of CCD errors are you actually running? There have between 20.000 and 30.000 M9s sold. At most there have been a couple off hundred with CCD problems, probably far less - including the solved problem of cracked sensors. So a chance of 1 in 1000 to 1 in 3000? Of which Leica solved many - but indeed not all- within the normal 5 working days ( meaning normally 2 weeks door to door) turnaround. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeD700 Posted November 25, 2010 Share #567 Posted November 25, 2010 Advertisement (gone after registration) I have no problem with a decision not to buy an M9 - why should I?- and I think you are right not to own a camera that induces angst. But one thing you must consider - you are just about the only one on the whole Internet to slam the image quality - certainly including all reviewers. Maybe, just maybe that could be pilot error? And what chance of CCD errors are you actually running? There have between 20.000 and 30.000 M9s sold. At most there have been a couple off hundred with CCD problems, probably far less - including the solved problem of cracked sensors. So a chance of 1 in 1000 to 1 in 3000? Of which Leica solved many - but indeed not all- within the normal 5 working days ( meaning normally 2 weeks door to door) turnaround. Maybe it was IQ vs price? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted November 25, 2010 Share #568 Posted November 25, 2010 Even then - there are many reviewers who put the image quality on a par with for instance IDsIII and D3s, and tose cameras are in the same price range. Of the full frame cameras only the 5DII is cheaper. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeD700 Posted November 25, 2010 Share #569 Posted November 25, 2010 And the D700; not a bad camera for the price. Quite exceptional high ISO performance, f.i. I can understand why some people value the intangible "Leica IQ" less, if the also consider some technical performance aspects and have experienced serious QC problems. At that price level people expect less problems, not more, and the "small craftsmanlike manufacturer" argument then loses some of its appeal. Some people just (and rightly so) can't overcome that pricetag. Then again, lots of people that did buy an M9 are happy and produce wonderful images. Fortunately. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted November 25, 2010 Share #570 Posted November 25, 2010 True, and as I have been saying, if you don't feel comfortable with a product, it is wise not to buy (keep) it. let's face it, rangefinder users are a small minority of the photographic world, M8/9 owners an even far smaller minority. It would be silly to think that there are 6 billion people out there who have to share our thoughts and preferences. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dustoff06 Posted November 25, 2010 Share #571 Posted November 25, 2010 Three weeks ago I purchased the M9 with the 50 Summilux (1.4). I've been shooting for over forty years (starting with the Canon FTB) and currently have an impressive Nikon collection (D3 and most of the pro glass up to and including the 200mm f2.0). The Nikon is a machine. Low light, great auto focus, speed, you name it. For the first several days I really started to question my decision. For what I paid, I could have upgraded to the D3x. added the 200-400 zoom or the 400mm 2.8 for less. Now after 700 pics or so, I've started to understand the Leica mystic. First, it makes you a better photographer in that you must think. Not that it's difficult, but the several seconds necessary makes you look at your settings/composition closer. Simplicity. Love it. The D3 has more menu screens than I can get my head around. Optically, the Leica is better, not by much, but it is better. When you're on, you are really on and you know it. Size matters. I can carry the M9 anywhere and don't feel like I have a cinder block around my neck. A complete set (my goal = 28, 50, 90) weights nothing compared to lugging around a D3 and twenty+ pounds of glass. I travel a lot for business and always had to decide whether the location/schedule justified the hassle of bring my gear. Not an issue any more. I'm not telling you anything you haven't already read. I am telling you that I think it was well worth the jump for me. Am I going to sell my Nikon gear? Nope. I read somewhere in my M9 quest that great shots from a Canon or Nikon are 75% equipment and 25% photographer. Leica is 10% equipment and 90% photographer. I'm not going to debate the percentages, but I think there's something to this view. Good luck and if you decide to take the leap, you won't be disappointed. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted November 25, 2010 Share #572 Posted November 25, 2010 . Am I going to sell my Nikon gear? Nope. Revisit this post in a year's time Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SJP Posted November 25, 2010 Share #573 Posted November 25, 2010 Yep, he is doomed:D Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeD700 Posted November 25, 2010 Share #574 Posted November 25, 2010 I read somewhere in my M9 quest that great shots from a Canon or Nikon are 75% equipment and 25% photographer. Leica is 10% equipment and 90% photographer. I'm not going to debate the percentages, but I think there's something to this view. Arrogance, or the power to truly believe in an illusion followed by the willingness to actually buy into that illusion, is endless. Enjoy your M9! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicoleica Posted November 25, 2010 Share #575 Posted November 25, 2010 One thing that puzzles me is when people refer to complexities in menu screens on modern cameras. When I purchase a camera, be it film or digital, I spend some time studying the camera and reading the manual. I then set all of the switches and menu options to my preferred settings. As far as menu options go, I very rarely ever need to change these. This then leaves me free to concentrate on focus and composition. For anything that may need frequent adjustment, most quality cameras have a discrete knob, switch or dial for these, and recourse to using a menu is mostly unnecessary. Am I alone in this? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThorkilB Posted November 25, 2010 Share #576 Posted November 25, 2010 come on Mike...be honest...your inner brain is longing for a M9:rolleyes: and did you just have 7k laying loose....... (remember to go out this weekend with your D700, and I will try to do so with my D3...and Clive went to the gasstation in the midle of nowhere...to do the 3.picture non-contest....and Richard you are hereby invited...and some with their M9's (look backwards for the "rules"))(but I gues we both have to invest in lightroom some day) thorkil Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThorkilB Posted November 25, 2010 Share #577 Posted November 25, 2010 When I purchase a camera, be it film or digital, I spend some time studying the camera and reading the manual. . Am I alone in this? :)Yes....beeing perhaps a bit autistic or something:rolleyes:, I'm no good at manuals, thats why I need a M9 thorkil Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeD700 Posted November 25, 2010 Share #578 Posted November 25, 2010 One thing that puzzles me is when people refer to complexities in menu screens on modern cameras. When I purchase a camera, be it film or digital, I spend some time studying the camera and reading the manual. I then set all of the switches and menu options to my preferred settings. As far as menu options go, I very rarely ever need to change these. This then leaves me free to concentrate on focus and composition. For anything that may need frequent adjustment, most quality cameras have a discrete knob, switch or dial for these, and recourse to using a menu is mostly unnecessary. Am I alone in this? No, you are not alone. I (D700, remember) shoot in Raw/Nef, aperture priority, auto wb (not always a pleasure but fixable in pp), either MF lenses or center zone AF, 3d matrix exposure metering (a real gift) and change ISO (pretty handy, upping to ISO 3200 at a flick of a button and not losing much IQ) and over/-underexposure with the appropriate buttons on the body. I'd prefer to lose the myriad of other options in the menu, but as I don't use them it's not a bother either. In brief: I use the D700 as I would use an FE2. If there were a digital full frame FE2 of FM3A, I'd buy that. But there isn't. What is also a gift is being able to look through the lens you're actually taking the shot with. No parallax view, no lens or shade obscuring the view. IIRC slr's were invented to solve just that problem... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeD700 Posted November 25, 2010 Share #579 Posted November 25, 2010 come on Mike...be honest...your inner brain is longing for a M9:rolleyes: and did you just have 7k laying loose....... (remember to go out this weekend with your D700, and I will try to do so with my D3...and Clive went to the gasstation in the midle of nowhere...to do the 3.picture non-contest....and Richard you are hereby invited...and some with their M9's (look backwards for the "rules"))(but I gues we both have to invest in lightroom some day) thorkil I don't think Richard is interested. As for the M9: read my reply to Nicoleica; that should explain it. Actually meeting Tue Juelsbo (gifted Leica M9 shooter) tonight for a beer; should be interesting... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThorkilB Posted November 25, 2010 Share #580 Posted November 25, 2010 buy him a beer from me...from a dane to a dane Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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