Should I take the M9 jump!

[ThorkilB]

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Congratulations Lee!

I've got a soft spot for the wide, but perhaps it demands that you a moving close to your subject, but then it can create some wonderfull and some dramatic feeling, and the the 21mm is just about "the same" as the 38mm Biogon on the hassy swc which make the same creation (but makes things a bit wide on the left and right edges)(and moving close you dont need shallow dof because the "build" of the picture then makes this effect itself, just in a more "real" way), but apart from that I could wish for a 24mm Elmarit (but the 21 I just need..), which should be even better drawing than the 21 Elmarit´, and these are small and "cheap". Its a matter of tast, and ones vision of future pictures to go in that box.

thorkil

[h00ligan]

Outdated tech? Hmmm. Please name one newer technology 2.5" screen. I too would really like a better screen, but it seems it is simply not on the market.

 

There are a bunch of better screens cmon. If they couldn't get quality in 2.5", which I doubt, they should have changed to a different size.

 

There are plenty of 2.5" screens on the market with higher res and refresh. Look at the mini video cam.

 

Anyway listen, this isn't me dumping on the m9. I really liked it, I'm debating buying one. It's just a shame that most of the tech they seem to use is old...the io controller in the m9 seems even slower than the x1, which comes in at less than 10mbps in my preliminary testing.

 

The point however is, I don't think it's fair on the other side to just heap praise and not objectively critique the shortcomings, which do exist even in leicaland.

 

I think it's a shame that most members seems to be either die hard 'it sucks' or die hard 'best thing evar!' users.

[RichardM8]

I've read somewhere - so I don't know if it's true - that Leica uses this type of display because it the power consumption is low and it's simply adequate for it's purpose.

 

In any case, I find the screen to be fine for it's use. Same for the X1 btw. I have never ever used an camera display to check focus. Not on any cam I've had. I only use it to quickly check the histogram for severe blow-out and for the menu's.

[jaapv]

I know where you are coming from and I happen to agree about the screen. However, my information is that a better one that fits the size constraints is (or at least was when the M9 was designed) not on the market. It is not just the 2.5" which is determined by the body size, the thickness is crucial as well. As Richard says, power consumption is a consideration too.

 

There are a bunch of better screens cmon. If they couldn't get quality in 2.5", which I doubt, they should have changed to a different size.

 

There are plenty of 2.5" screens on the market with higher res and refresh. Look at the mini video cam.

 

Anyway listen, this isn't me dumping on the m9. I really liked it, I'm debating buying one. It's just a shame that most of the tech they seem to use is old...the io controller in the m9 seems even slower than the x1, which comes in at less than 10mbps in my preliminary testing.

 

The point however is, I don't think it's fair on the other side to just heap praise and not objectively critique the shortcomings, which do exist even in leicaland.

 

I think it's a shame that most members seems to be either die hard 'it sucks' or die hard 'best thing evar!' users.

[RichardM8]

Michael?

[jaapv]

Err..Richard - sorry, I have a habit of mixing up names... edited.

[h00ligan]

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I've read somewhere - so I don't know if it's true - that Leica uses this type of display because it the power consumption is low and it's simply adequate for it's purpose.

 

In any case, I find the screen to be fine for it's use. Same for the X1 btw. I have never ever used an camera display to check focus. Not on any cam I've had. I only use it to quickly check the histogram for severe blow-out and for the menu's.

 

Maybe you were born into film, I wasn't. So therefore my complaint is a huge premium for technically inferiror goods. I'm really not out to slam any leica product, but seriously, givern the price, shouldn't they offer the best? Again, I think leica offer massive benefits, I just think they should offer what is to them, the best for buyers.

 

If you are going to nearly triple the price for other full frame cameras, show me why.

[jaapv]

If the M9 did not have costs compromises you would really have cause to complain about the price...

[h00ligan]

It's $7k. Oh boy

[Dannybuoy]

You sound just like me. I had little or no experience with Leica before about 2 months ago. I knew they were a powerhouse of photography but I also knew they were expensive and mostly film cameras and I had never really investigated them further. But then by chance I read a review of the X1 in a magazine I subscribe to. The review was very positive and the £1400 price tag didn't put me off. I'd happily spend that on a Canon lens for my 5DmkII so thought I'd look into it in more detail.

 

Once I had read more reviews on the X1 and more importantly saw the image quality, I knew there was something very special about this camera.

 

I had suddenly caught the Leica bug bad. I was on ebay buying vintage Leica brochures to hang on my office wall. On my travels around the various sites with X1 reviews on I saw lots of reviews and stuff about the M9. I knew this was the one, but the price tag was too high. I managed to find a 2nd hand (but ultimately brand new) X1 on ebay. The seller was some minted guy who lived in Kensington. His personal PA came to meet me to give me the camera. It was in a Harrods bag! She told me her boss was a huge photography fan, but would buy cameras, use them a few times, then sell them. He had apparently got through about four X1s! He was selling his M9 at the same time but then I didn't have the money.

 

I quickly fell in love with the X1. It went everywhere with me. It reignited my love of carrying a camera everywhere I went so if I did spot that unique photo I could take a photo with a camera who's quality was on par if not better than my 5DmkII. During this time, I'd read about the M9 on my iphone in bed at night. I was obsessed. I felt a bit like I was cheating on my X1. In a way I was. I was lusting after a different model even though I had only had the X1 for a matter of weeks. I even lost sleep due to thinking about the M9 so much. It had consumed me. I knew I had to have one.

 

The X1 was and is great, but I wanted to have complete control over focusing and the ability to swap lenses. I had started searching ebay for used and new M9s just to keep a track of what they sold for. I saw a couple of second handers sell quickly for nearly full price. They hold their value alright! Next thing I know is I'm bidding on M mount lenses even though I didn't have a body to use them on.. some kind of crazy bug I'd say. Lost out on some older lenses. Was prepared to spend about £800 on a decent one. Didn't win any. Then I saw a 35mm Summicron f/2 (one of the more recent versions with the square hood. i just had to have it. it was for a buy it now of £1400... I just click that button. Next day, went to the bank, withdrew £1400 cash and met the seller outside Nike town in London with a mate as back up just in case it wasn't legit. We went to a local pub where we had a few pints and talked about photography. He was from Lithuania and his English was good but not great. His knowledge on Leica and general photography was great even though he wasn't a photographer. He was selling it for his wife who had a load of Leica gear but had lost her love for it all. He bought a gorgeous M6 with him to mount the lens on to so I could get a feel for it. I knew it was all legit. Game him the cash (he proceeded to check every one on the £50 notes by rubbing them onto paper on the bar. We got some strange looks that's for sure!

 

So now I had a great lens for a camera I didn't even own! I knew maybe sometime in the new year I might buy an M9. Now I was committed! No going back.

 

The next few days was excruciating. I had this beautiful little lens on my desk just winking at me... I had a good week at work and some unpaid invoices had been paid and got some new work in and I decided to sell my pride and joy, my Canon 85mm 1.2L II... then decided to sell a heap of my Canon gear. So I thought if I don't go for this now I will have a long wait. I sold my X1 to a mate and I saw a 2nd hand M9 on ebay for £4495 and hit that buy it now button again! I have bought one.. crazy. So exciting. I contacted the seller and arranged to drive over the next morning. I had to go and get cash! £4500 is a big wad of cash when its made up for £50, £20 and £10 notes! I got up early the next morning and drove down there. A bit too fast probably :-) . It was mine! Slapped on the 35 and snapped quick shot. I was in love.

 

I've had the M9 for 3 days now and I am over the moon with it. I was doing a video shoot for Kurt Geiger over the last two days, but took the M9 with me to take some photos at the same time. What can I say. It is an amazing camera and I haven;t looked back. I just posted £2000 worth of Canon gear sold on ebay today. I have no regrets. I have a stripped down Canon set up for videos and photo jobs that demand that kit and I have my M9 for everything else.

 

Ultimately, if you can afford the M9 you should buy it. If you can't afford it, sell something so you can. ;-) I have bought many things in my life that I have regretted. But this M9 is not one of them. You'll love it! Now I just need to work out which lens to get next. I think a 90mm Cron will be nice.

 

Here's a photo from my shoot yesterday. Pretty much as shot, just a little bump in contrast and blacks.

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[Clive Murray-White]

I just jumped in and then soon out of the M9. I am really disappointed by it.

 

Now my sad story:

 

Yesterday I send my M9 back to the shop where i bought it only two days before . And I got my money back. The M9 has dead pixels. They can easily be seen up ISO 400.

 

According to my two-days-lang expriences with the M9. I have to say, it is Not worth the money, The low solution LCD is not reliable. So that i finally turned the "auto playback" off. The JPEGs out of the camera are not useable. Shotting DNG it a Must. And The worst thing for me is definitely the quality of the CCD. I will never buy a M9 again, which i think needs a big improvement. I'll wait for the M10 with better LCD and better CCD or CMOS, if they will be better. Leica (or Kodak ?) sucks in the digital age of photography.

 

This caught my eye when I got up early this morning and I found myself marveling at the nice manners of the participants of this thread, nobody really said what I'm sure many thought, "2 days long experiences = 2 days is too short and garantee a complete lack of experience". As for the complete rubbish that followed we can put that down as this guy's very weird way of justifying his intitial impetuousness. It's in the same league and as credible as me saying I had a D3 for a couple of days and just couldn't get used to it not fitting in my pocket - and then saying it was a serious defect in the camera's design.

 

I'm even surprised that he didn't complain that how ever hard he tried he just couldn't find the video.

 

If he just said his sad experience was that he might have got a defective camera that completely spoilt his highly anticipated enthusiasm I would have a lot of sympathy.

 

Just as well for him he bought from a reputable dealer who was prepared to take it back.

 

If he'd followed this thread he would have seen that there is a nice orderly way to find out if you are personally suited to an M.

 

A sad person not a sad story.

 

Clive

[Clive Murray-White]

Dannybuoy - perfect timing and a much better way of putting erdussecn back in his/her box - I like your wildly enthusiastic picture too.

 

I'd reckon the clandestine meetings in pubs, counting used banknotes and having muscle on hand could have been a great phot op too. Just as well no one rang the fuzz and reported illegal activities!. Never easy to explain.

 

Clive

[SJP]

<snip> Here's a photo from my shoot yesterday. Pretty much as shot, just a little bump in contrast and blacks.

I am still looking for the dropped jaw smilie, incredible picture.

[MikeD700]

You sound just like me. I had little or no experience with Leica before about 2 months ago. I knew they were a powerhouse of photography but I also knew they were expensive and mostly film cameras and I had never really investigated them further. But then by chance I read a review of the X1 in a magazine I subscribe to. The review was very positive and the £1400 price tag didn't put me off. I'd happily spend that on a Canon lens for my 5DmkII so thought I'd look into it in more detail.

 

Once I had read more reviews on the X1 and more importantly saw the image quality, I knew there was something very special about this camera.

 

I had suddenly caught the Leica bug bad. I was on ebay buying vintage Leica brochures to hang on my office wall. On my travels around the various sites with X1 reviews on I saw lots of reviews and stuff about the M9. I knew this was the one, but the price tag was too high. I managed to find a 2nd hand (but ultimately brand new) X1 on ebay. The seller was some minted guy who lived in Kensington. His personal PA came to meet me to give me the camera. It was in a Harrods bag! She told me her boss was a huge photography fan, but would buy cameras, use them a few times, then sell them. He had apparently got through about four X1s! He was selling his M9 at the same time but then I didn't have the money.

 

I quickly fell in love with the X1. It went everywhere with me. It reignited my love of carrying a camera everywhere I went so if I did spot that unique photo I could take a photo with a camera who's quality was on par if not better than my 5DmkII. During this time, I'd read about the M9 on my iphone in bed at night. I was obsessed. I felt a bit like I was cheating on my X1. In a way I was. I was lusting after a different model even though I had only had the X1 for a matter of weeks. I even lost sleep due to thinking about the M9 so much. It had consumed me. I knew I had to have one.

 

The X1 was and is great, but I wanted to have complete control over focusing and the ability to swap lenses. I had started searching ebay for used and new M9s just to keep a track of what they sold for. I saw a couple of second handers sell quickly for nearly full price. They hold their value alright! Next thing I know is I'm bidding on M mount lenses even though I didn't have a body to use them on.. some kind of crazy bug I'd say. Lost out on some older lenses. Was prepared to spend about £800 on a decent one. Didn't win any. Then I saw a 35mm Summicron f/2 (one of the more recent versions with the square hood. i just had to have it. it was for a buy it now of £1400... I just click that button. Next day, went to the bank, withdrew £1400 cash and met the seller outside Nike town in London with a mate as back up just in case it wasn't legit. We went to a local pub where we had a few pints and talked about photography. He was from Lithuania and his English was good but not great. His knowledge on Leica and general photography was great even though he wasn't a photographer. He was selling it for his wife who had a load of Leica gear but had lost her love for it all. He bought a gorgeous M6 with him to mount the lens on to so I could get a feel for it. I knew it was all legit. Game him the cash (he proceeded to check every one on the £50 notes by rubbing them onto paper on the bar. We got some strange looks that's for sure!

 

So now I had a great lens for a camera I didn't even own! I knew maybe sometime in the new year I might buy an M9. Now I was committed! No going back.

 

The next few days was excruciating. I had this beautiful little lens on my desk just winking at me... I had a good week at work and some unpaid invoices had been paid and got some new work in and I decided to sell my pride and joy, my Canon 85mm 1.2L II... then decided to sell a heap of my Canon gear. So I thought if I don't go for this now I will have a long wait. I sold my X1 to a mate and I saw a 2nd hand M9 on ebay for £4495 and hit that buy it now button again! I have bought one.. crazy. So exciting. I contacted the seller and arranged to drive over the next morning. I had to go and get cash! £4500 is a big wad of cash when its made up for £50, £20 and £10 notes! I got up early the next morning and drove down there. A bit too fast probably :-) . It was mine! Slapped on the 35 and snapped quick shot. I was in love.

 

I've had the M9 for 3 days now and I am over the moon with it. I was doing a video shoot for Kurt Geiger over the last two days, but took the M9 with me to take some photos at the same time. What can I say. It is an amazing camera and I haven;t looked back. I just posted £2000 worth of Canon gear sold on ebay today. I have no regrets. I have a stripped down Canon set up for videos and photo jobs that demand that kit and I have my M9 for everything else.

 

Ultimately, if you can afford the M9 you should buy it. If you can't afford it, sell something so you can. ;-) I have bought many things in my life that I have regretted. But this M9 is not one of them. You'll love it! Now I just need to work out which lens to get next. I think a 90mm Cron will be nice.

 

Here's a photo from my shoot yesterday. Pretty much as shot, just a little bump in contrast and blacks.

 

This thread is getting better all the time! Now it's like standing just outside (not inside, mind you) a church in one of the Southern states where gospel singing is going on (and near a candy factory, apparently). Hail the Lord!

 

Remember that book "Were the gods cosmonauts?" (or something). Very scientific. Apparently people get high (it's a proven physiological process) by singing in a choir lyrics that at first hand are difficult to comprehend by the uninitiated and uninebriated bystander...

 

Praise the Lord!

[SJP]

Ah, we have yet another convert!

[MikeD700]

Ah, we have yet another convert!

 

 

LoL! No no, a heretic, an agnost, a non-believer!!!

[IkarusJohn]

I often wonder why people bother to post on this forum on why they haven't bought an M9. It seems odd. You think about buying one, decide against it or buy one and regret it so sell it, then surely you just move on and think the rest of us are a bit tragic.

 

Okay, H00ligan was saying that he likes the camera, but it has faults. Well, call me an old man of film, but the critical issues to me are in order the lens, followed by the focussing mechanism and framing, the meter and the sensor. When I pick up a camera, I want to know what I'm taking a picture of, and it's in focus and correctly exposed. Once I've taken it, my interest is how it's going to look on my computer monitor.

 

Gadgetry which surrounds the digital process is of zero interest to me.

 

The lens, and capturing the image - that's what's critical. If you want more, the 5DII is fantastic. I looked at one when I was considering the M9, and it bored me witless.

 

Cheers

John

[h00ligan]

I completely get what you're saying John, I just think that given the price, they should use current technology as it's a tech product.

 

Again, it seems like any time I'm not in the fawning adorefest, people think I'm a hater, that's just not the case.

 

As to x1 image quality, I unfortunately haven't experienced all it has to offer with a broken copy. I look forward to its repair and my enlightenment.

[MikeD700]

I often wonder why people bother to post on this forum on why they haven't bought an M9.

 

Cheers

John

 

So do I John, and I'm not even considering acquiring one. Read back in this thread to find out why I'm here (that reason has run out of warranty long ago btw).

 

Maybe an Icarus fate is awaiting me...

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Hallo,

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[IkarusJohn]

Please, don't misunderstand my point of view - I'm not fawning and blind to imperfections. I just question the priorities. Coming from a Hasselblad, with no meter, no power wind and nothing electronic in it at all, I'm into simplicity. Yes, Leica's are expensive, but I can see where the money went.

 

Software, electronics, screens, ... not interested. If anything, that sort of wizardry is a total turn off for me.

 

Perhaps I should express this another way. When I bought my first digital camera, I simply couldn't get my head around it and at 2.1 megapixels the image was pretty ordinary compared to what I got with slide film. Then suddenly everything electronic had a camera - my phone, computer, video camera etc, and I found that the joy of seeing a potential photo, instinctively assessing exposure and framing was gone. I simply couldn't get my head around it.

 

I then decided I need to get over this, so I looked for a compact. I read through reviews (dpreview among them) and selected a G10 as being the best option. I still haven't worked out how to engage the flash, and I don't seem to be able to stop the digital zoom, while still zooming with video. The shots are good, but I have no idea of the focal length of the lens (or where it shoots best), aperture or sensor size.

 

With the M9, the language is all very familiar (prime lenses, aperture priority, with the benefit of Auto ISO - Yay!), the lenses are as close to perfection as can be and this is the smallest camera with a full sized 24x36 sensor, and the camera is a joy to hold and use. Those are the things which give me pleasure when taking photos.

 

I had a look at the D-Lux-2 yesterday (the one with the huge zoom lens range). It felt small and plasticy in my hands - not even remotely interested. The X1 similarly.

 

Frankly, I'd still be happy if the M9 didn't have a monitor at all ...

 

Cheers

John