After all the M9ti bashing...

[nhabedi]

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True. But it does have the distance scale in the viewfinder.

 

Sure. That, together with a focus ring, is already something almost no other compact has. But what I always liked about my Ms (and what Fujifilm even alludes to in their press release) is that you can see all relevant parameters by just looking at the camera without switching it on or looking through the viewfinder or at some display. If you're familiar enough with the camera, you can even feel the parameters without looking. (Well, except ISO maybe, but that's not a big issue for me.) If you're used to working with manual exposure and pre-setting the focus, that's very helpful. The Digilux 2 had that as well, as did the Digilux 3 if I'm not mistaken. The X1, sadly, not.

 

I don't expect Fujifilm to add a distance scale on the lens in the last minute, but if someone wants to trump the X100 (Solms, are you listening?), that would be something I'd like. Just sayin'...

[nhabedi]

Awww, fer chrissake: it's only a camera. Go out and take pikktrures or something.

 

What? You mean we should close down this forum?

 

[plasticman]

I don't expect Fujifilm to add a distance scale on the lens in the last minute, but if someone wants to trump the X100 (Solms, are you listening?), that would be something I'd like.

 

I'm not sure if you're kidding here, or not(?) If not, I'm amazed that you think the only thing between what Leica seem currently to be capable of producing, and what Fuji are doing amounts to a few distance markings on a lens?

 

The more I think about this photokina and the massive chasm between where it looks like Leica is heading and where Fuji is going, the more depressing it gets: while Leica recently tours Asia and hints that film cameras are dead (just when they are getting hip again), Fuji brings out yet more gorgeous film cameras; while Leica hosts embarrassing 'design' launches for the super-rich, Fuji show a camera prototype that looks like they've really listened to serious photographers.

 

Someone in another thread (half-) joked that it looked like Fuji had actually been reading what people wanted on this forum. I think that they probably actually have been reading wishlists and keeping a finger on the pulse of what people have been asking for.

 

As far as I can see, Leica are too busy drinking champagne with the rich and famous to waste any time talking to boring photographers.

 

[/rant]

[nhabedi]

I'm not sure if you're kidding here, or not(?) If not, I'm amazed that you think the only thing between what Leica seem currently to be capable of producing, and what Fuji are doing amounts to a few distance markings on a lens?

 

The more I think about this photokina and the massive chasm between where it looks like Leica is heading and where Fuji is going, the more depressing it gets: while Leica recently tours Asia and hints that film cameras are dead (just when they are getting hip again), Fuji brings out yet more gorgeous film cameras; while Leica hosts embarrassing 'design' launches for the super-rich, Fuji show a camera prototype that looks like they've really listened to serious photographers.

 

Someone in another thread (half-) joked that it looked like Fuji had actually been reading what people wanted on this forum. I think that they probably actually have been reading wishlists and keeping a finger on the pulse of what people have been asking for.

 

As far as I can see, Leica are too busy drinking champagne with the rich and famous to waste any time talking to boring photographers.

 

[/rant]

 

I wasn't really joking although I don't really expect Leica to announce an X1 successor anytime soon. Maybe in one or two years, or maybe even later. They are simply too small to shell out the next camera when the current one is still selling like hot cakes, and I respect that.

 

In all fairness, it has to be said that - for those photographers at least who are excited by the concept of the X100 - the X1 is a camera that already got a lot of things right. It was an important evolutionary step after Sigma's DP1. Unfortunately, Leica left out a couple of things (like a built-in viewfinder) which are very important to some of us. Whether that was because they didn't listen to us or because they couldn't (after all, the X1 is built from third-party components) or because they thought it wouldn't sell, we'll never know.

 

I should also add that someone on this forum who was in Cologne said the people at Fujifilm admitted that the X1 was an important inspiration for the X100. So, clearly not everything Leica did in the last years was nonsense. Maybe (just maybe) we wouldn't have seen such a thing as the X100 without the X1.

 

Yes, Leica often looked like a brand for the rich and famous in the last decades, but they still managed to release impressive cameras in between. If it were just me, I'd rather have the guys and girls in Solms concentrate solely on tough no-nonsense cameras for hard-boiled Magnum pros, but that's just wishful thinking. I'm not in a position to tell them what to do because I don't own the company nor do I work for them.

[plasticman]

...when the current one is still selling like hot cakes

 

I wonder if this is still the case after the X100 announcement?

 

Anyway, I don't pretend to be one of those people who think they could run Leica better than Leica. This doesn't stop me having an opinion about what looks to me like a rather ridiculous group of bald, older men getting tipsy with the Hollywood crowd, instead of a forward-looking and engaged bunch of photo-enthusiasts getting excited about image-making tools.

[jaapv]

when the current one is still selling like hot cakes, and I respect that.

Agree. There are enough people who prefer the original to a copycat styling exercise. The technical qualiies of the camera may or may not be excellent and most attractive, but only time will tell. In the meantime the only prospective buyers getting excited about the imitation M3 look are Leica buffs, and there are few enough of them.

[nhabedi]

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This doesn't stop me having an opinion about what looks to me like a rather ridiculous group of bald, older men getting tipsy with the Hollywood crowd, instead of a forward-looking and engaged bunch of photo-enthusiasts getting excited about image-making tools.

 

I have to agree that some of their recent "events" weren't my cup of tea either. Definitely a bit too posh.

 

Nothing against Seal, for example. He's probably a very nice guy and he seems to be as serious about photography as many other ambitious amateurs here. But he clearly was at the 9/9/9 event because he's a celebrity and not because of his "street credibility" as a photographer. Had Leica had a young and interesting pro like Klavdij Sluban (whose photos, incidentally, will be exhibited in Solms next month - highly recommended) present the M9 instead, that would have sent a different message to me.

[Steve Ash]

I guess the target market is clearly the collectors with deep pocket and undying and unconditional love for Leica.

 

Someone who buys such camera for collection only is simply not rich enough...

Steve

 

PS:

I find the design not too bad but would prefer an MP-like M9 for myself.

[plasticman]

Agree. There are enough people who prefer the original to a copycat styling exercise. The technical qualiies of the camera may or may not be excellent and most attractive, but only time will tell. In the meantime the only prospective buyers getting excited about the imitation M3 look are Leica buffs, and there are few enough of them.

 

Over on dpreview the X100 is still (only just) second to the D7000 as photokina's most exciting launch. As we all know, dpreview is where "Leica buffs" congregate en masse.

 

In any case, calling the X100 an "imitation M3" is surely getting the whole situation a$$ backwards. To me the laughable styling of the X1 was more of an imitation M3 than the X100, which at least has a justifiable reason for looking like a classic camera: insofar as it is intended to operate as a simple classic camera.

 

The X1 tries to look like an old M, but uses an extending lens, menu choices and thumbwheels to do anything 'manual' - a design parody, in other words, as none of the design elements are true to the golden rule: FORM FOLLOWS FUNCTION. (not shouting)

[stunsworth]

Sorry, in what way does the X1 look like a film M?

[jaapv]

The X1 an M3? Look again: a Leica Standard, or Leica I if you will..

[plasticman]

The X1 an M3? Look again: a Leica Standard, or Leica I if you will..

 

I don't know whether this is just kidding now - I'm definitely no M-historian. The X1 was based on the 'design-heritage' of Leica cameras - an LFI article last year made this very clear. I consider the design to be an atrocious parody because of the reasons above - it's essentially designed to look like something it definitely is not.

 

Whether one likes the 'retro' look of the X100 is naturally a matter of taste - but as I said, the form at least has the logic of following functionality in its primary features. Adding an engraved top-plate can either be considered kitsch or a nice design touch - I personally find the look quite understated and appealing. The X1 looks like a plastic pastiche of an early Leica to me. Which particular model is of absolutely no interest to me.

[jaapv]

 

in other words, as none of the design elements are true to the golden rule: FORM FOLLOWS FUNCTION. (not shouting)

If that were valid, all cars nowadays would look like this:

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[plasticman]

If that were valid, all cars nowadays would look like this:

 

No they wouldn't. Almost none of the functionality available in modern cars is embodied in that design - including streamlining, passenger and pedestrian safety etc etc

 

Goodness me.

[stunsworth]

Please search the Internet and find a picture of an M3, then compare it to the X1. If you're going to make a sweeping statement about how the camera looks it's best to do so from a position of informed knowledge.

 

The reason that the X1 looks like a very early screw mount camera is because it's a box with a lens on the front and a couple of dials on top.

[jaapv]

No they wouldn't. Almost none of the functionality available in modern cars is embodied in that design - including streamlining, passenger and pedestrian safety etc etc

 

Goodness me.

As a pedestrian I would rather be run down by this one at 30 MpH than a Porsche at 250 Kph.. I would simply lie down and it would pass over me..

[plasticman]

Please search the Internet and find a picture of an M3, then compare it to the X1. If you're going to make a sweeping statement about how the camera looks it's best to do so from a position of informed knowledge.

 

The reason that the X1 looks like a very early screw mount camera is because it's a box with a lens on the front and a couple of dials on top.

 

This debate is ridiculous: someone said the X100 was an M3 copy and I made a throwaway comment that the X1 was more of an imitation (of an old camera). Within parentheses there is the original intention of my essentially irrelevant remark. The LFI article made the design decisions explicit - I don't have the article to hand to give more details, and I can't say I read it carefully in the first place.

 

The central point for me is not whether the X1 resembles an M3 or an M-something-else, it's simply that Fuji are continually rolling-out cameras that I really want and admire (film and now also digital), while Leica seem to be floundering around looking for a direction to go in.

 

They have a difficult path to follow admittedly - I'm not sure what they need to do to persuade people to buy an M10 after an M9 and/or M8. But making fools of themselves with titanium cigarette-lighters isn't the way to go (imho). My Canon friends had a field day on Facebook when that little baby came up for conversation.

[jaapv]

I would LOVE to make a fool of myself to the tune of 11 million Euro.

[Nicoleica]

I'm just waiting to see how long it is before one appears on Fleabay.

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[plasticman]

I would LOVE to make a fool of myself to the tune of 11 million Euro.

 

Are you factoring-in all of the lost future sales because Leica is seen as a playboy sheik's camera-maker instead of a serious photographer's camera-maker?

 

I personally think that brands are fragile these days. Make a few wrong moves and you flush all the hard work and good things that have gone before. Previously, these embarrassing special-editions could be disseminated without generally harming the core perception of a company. Now they're fodder for blog entries, Facebook comments, chats, review sites and so on and on...

 

In my view this was the worst whoring-out for a measly €11m, so far. They just managed to show everyone that their idea bank was as empty as their money-vault, if they needed the cash that badly.