earleygallery Posted September 17, 2010 Share #21 Posted September 17, 2010 Advertisement (gone after registration) /facepalm. Dear Lord. I have tried. I have tried to make them understand. I know that I have been a sinner in the past and if it would be alright with you, I will discuss that with Saint Peter when I see him. But Lord, I care about this company. I care about their survival. I have tried to instill in them the idea that it is difficult to compete with other people when you do not even have a product -in the price range (or slightly higher)- that you can get people to buy, then put in a box and ship it to them on a truck. In order to stay in business, Lord, it would be helpful to have a product that can be put on a store shelf. I have tried, Lord. I really have. I don't know -how else- to get this through to them. It seems impossible. Lord, can you help me... to help them understand? Signed: "Timmy". Keep praying Timmy. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted September 17, 2010 Posted September 17, 2010 Hi earleygallery, Take a look here Please build.... I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
jgmb Posted September 17, 2010 Share #22 Posted September 17, 2010 Timmy, the answer to your prayers might come as soon as this Monday: Leica EVIL to be introduced on Monday? | Leica News & Rumors According to this rumor, it will resemble a small Leicaflex, but the 18x24 rather than the SL: Rumor: Leica EVIL camera for Photokina | Leica News & Rumors Speaking for myself, if Leica does indeed reveal a full-frame R solution with these specs, I will be first in line... even if the price is slightly higher than predicted. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfage Posted September 18, 2010 Author Share #23 Posted September 18, 2010 Timmy, the answer to your prayers might come as soon as this Monday: Leica EVIL to be introduced on Monday? | Leica News & Rumors According to this rumor, it will resemble a small Leicaflex, but the 18x24 rather than the SL: Rumor: Leica EVIL camera for Photokina | Leica News & Rumors Speaking for myself, if Leica does indeed reveal a full-frame R solution with these specs, I will be first in line... even if the price is slightly higher than predicted. Well. We shall see. Little Timmy will bring a box of eggs if it's true. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildlightphoto Posted September 18, 2010 Share #24 Posted September 18, 2010 Leica. Make one of these and put a screen on the back of it. Leicaflex SL2 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Don't change the shape or where the buttons are. Just leave them in the same place. Give us 15-18 REAL megapixels (something, full frame "ish"). Leave it as an R mount. Charge us 32-3500 bucks. I will pay the $700-1K more than the 5d mkII as long as you build this new SL2 to the same standard. This would be my fantasy camera... but I'm not holding my breath waiting for it. Something based on the M9 with a reflex viewing system - same shutter & electronic guts with a table of R lenses instead of M lenses - would provide the economy of scale to make it affordable. Unfortunately I'm an outlier in the digital SLR market. "The Market" wants features, features & more features. Blecch. A reflex M9 is all I'd want. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nikkor AIS Posted September 18, 2010 Share #25 Posted September 18, 2010 Nice call Shane. What , have you got a crystal ball in front of you. I think your right about about the price point. And now that Leica is in the game, Im sure many will come a looking. Bill , again Im astounded how rude you are. You insult a fellow menber in good standing. I cant beleive your rude and disrespectfull post are tolerated. Gregory Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mooky Posted September 18, 2010 Share #26 Posted September 18, 2010 This would be my fantasy camera... but I'm not holding my breath waiting for it. Something based on the M9 with a reflex viewing system - same shutter & electronic guts with a table of R lenses instead of M lenses - would provide the economy of scale to make it affordable. Unfortunately I'm an outlier in the digital SLR market. "The Market" wants features, features & more features. Blecch. A reflex M9 is all I'd want. Probably won't be much different than that - maybe - but I think they'll keep it simple - but as to the price - My first SL2mot body new was around $1200 and the motor was around $1000 back in the early 70's so I don't think the R solution will be in the 3K to 4K range. Hang in there Doug we'll know soon....... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paolo.Battista Posted September 19, 2010 Share #27 Posted September 19, 2010 Advertisement (gone after registration) Well, a traditional manual camera (like SL2, or Nikon FM, or Olympus OM-4) "digitalized" could take place in many photographers bags. But I think that the only way to make it successful (that means to be able to sell it in a "comfortable" amount of pieces at a "so-so-comfortable" price) is to made it modular, in order to be able to change the lens attachment and be able to accept many lenses brands. So you can have a much larger customer base for justifying the investments. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfage Posted September 20, 2010 Author Share #28 Posted September 20, 2010 Well, whatever they have, it had better be good. That's all I can say. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mhoersch Posted September 20, 2010 Share #29 Posted September 20, 2010 The Leica way of reasoning is sometimes hard to follow. They said they couldn't sell an R10 for 6.000 Euros, so they made an S2 for about three times that much. Go, and try to argue with that kind of logic... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ndjambrose Posted September 20, 2010 Share #30 Posted September 20, 2010 Not quite sure why sfage is getting such a lot of flak. He's dead right about the hole in the product line. We can see that in the Leica/Panasonic relationship, where the sole marketing purpose is to give Leica something it can sell at a price point where it can't build products. Leica has the same opportunity as every business: namely to innovate its portfolio by whatever means are viable. The digital SL may be a tall order for Leica alone at this point in time, but could be a fertile market for a JV, for example. In any event, while it may be a challenging idea I don't think it's necessarily a bad one. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreyCoupe Posted September 23, 2010 Share #31 Posted September 23, 2010 All this is moot. Competitively, this is just a business failure. The R camera ain't gonna happen, and it is due to Leica's inability to find a way to build a digital SLR to complement its spectacular R lenses at anything resembling a viable market price. We all get that part. It's the casual way many M users ignore how close they came to being in exactly the same boat that is so very hard to digest. If our rangefinder brethren would simply imagine life if had been M instead of R that had gone away, if their favorite photo kit had been stranded, tooling auctioned off, and left SOL, the entire tone of this debacle would be quite different. Good luck M'ers. It could happen to you. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfage Posted September 23, 2010 Author Share #32 Posted September 23, 2010 Yeah Grey, I know. I like this company and I want to support them. Unfortunately, it seems that I am going to have to come to terms with the fact that they (just) aren't going to do anything. I have about 4 grand, maybe more for a body. I would like to give that +4 grand to Leica but it looks like they don't want my money. It drives me crazy that I am speaking in another thread about buying the 5d2 or d700. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill Posted September 23, 2010 Share #33 Posted September 23, 2010 Yeah Grey, I know. I like this company and I want to support them. Unfortunately, it seems that I am going to have to come to terms with the fact that they (just) aren't going to do anything THAT I WANT. I have about 4 grand, maybe more for a body. I would like to give that +4 grand to Leica but it looks like they don't want my money. It drives me crazy that I am speaking in another thread about buying the 5d2 or d700. ...missed out three key words there, old boy. Regards, Bill Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
adan Posted September 23, 2010 Share #34 Posted September 23, 2010 @mhoersh - Leica understood that a "Leica SLR" was going to cost as much as an MF digital camera regardless, so the only way to make one that was viable was to scrap 24 x 36 and actually produce - an MF camera. We can debate "viable" and whether the S2 is really MF, but that is how Leica sees it. It is really just a follow-on to the philosophy expressed a decade ago by the CEO of the time: "Whatever Leica builds will be expensive, and we can't control that. All we can do is make sure it is worth the price." If one can build and sell 1,000 $24,000 cameras at a profit of $7,000 each, or 4,000 $10,000 cameras at a profit of $1,000 each - which makes more sense? To a small company like Leica, which does not have the resources to do both? @ sfage - to be blunt, if your budget is $4000, you aren't a Leica customer. I don't mean that to be as cold or snobbish as it sounds - you also aren't a Nikon D3X customer (and neither am I - my SLR budget was $1,200 and fortunately I found a used D700 for that). It does sound like you'd be an ideal customer for a used DMR. @ greycoupe - as you may be referencing - actually it DID happen to "M'ers" 35 years ago. End of the M line (for 2 years, for roughly the same reason, not profitable, not "the future"). I wasn't using Leica in any form then, so I barely noticed. And it could happen again. It did to: Canon FD users, Contax users (of multiple generations), Minolta users, Topcon users and so on and so on. Such is the "creative destruction" of the market economy. Would I be casual if the M line disappeared again? More or less. First, I've been a smart shopper and paid as little as possible for my (used) M gear except for digital bodies. Second, they are just tools. And there are other tools available if these aren't. I could go back to film M's; I could switch to R glass on a Canon; I could try Contax SLRs again with film (or Canon FD - I saw a 17mm f/4 the other day that would have been my dream 30 years ago.) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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