Everything ready for the NEW DIGILUX 2

[elansprint72]

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Forgive me if I'm missing something, Pete. But you're saying your D700 has an aperture ring on the lens barrel? And a mechanical knob for setting the shutter speed? And that it sits comfortably in your hand ... while you whirl through picture adjustments never taking the camera from your eye?

 

JT

 

Yes (depends which lens I fit, though). Seems that I can fit any lens back to the late 60s.

Yes- mechanical in that I need to move it with my thumb.

Yes (depends which menu I select).

 

Hey, JT, I was the guy who welcomed you to the forum and suggested that the D2 was the perfect (almost) pit and paddock cam.

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[elansprint72]

Yeah, I was waiting for somebody to say that, but it's wrong. Read again what I wrote. Or what John replied.

 

Does your D700 have a dedicated dial for the aperture speed? If your D700 is switched off, can you see which shutter speed and aperture it is set to?

 

What is "aperture speed"?

If my camera is switched off, um... I guess that I'm not about to use it, so.... who gives one about the aperture and shutter speed?

 

Get some time in, laddie.

[adan]

Pete - analog controls are important to some people. If they are not to you, that's fine, but I don't see where you are in a position to sneer at others' needs.

 

I dumped Nikon for Contax (later Leica) back in the 90's precisely because I got fed up with modal design, as in "this wheel does seven different things, depending on which button is held in when it is turned." Dials with numbers on them, not generic "control wheels" and an LCD covered with extraneous symbols, are what work best for me.

 

Especially with battery-dependent (i.e. all digital) cameras, being able to glance down and check the pre-set shutter speed and aperture without sucking battery power for the top LCD is a benefit.

 

Nikon has done a decent job maintaining backward lens compatability compared to other SLR makers, and they get my salute for that.

 

But bear in mind that for a compact (non-SLR) camera, the Digilux 2 was and is unique in having a zoom ring with focal-length markings on it ("28" - "35" - "50"- "90"), rather than the usual rocker switch ("T" and "W") and a LCD zoom readout that says "1x...2x...4x."

 

And a focus ring marked with distances for pre-set, zone-focus grab shots.

[Guest stnami]

The last post is a camera snobbery in a polite manner .......... there will be no D2 so it is a non issue

[daveleo]

wait a second . . . . i am looking at a cheap, used nikon "Dsomething" so i can use my old nikon manual lenses again . . . . that would give me focus and aperture on lens rings . . . the only thing "missing" then is a dial for sutter speed but i think the digital nikons use a thumb wheel (not too far from in concept from a "dial")

 

so . . . using the old lenses gets you pretty close to the manual handling of the D2 . . . .?

 

right ?

[nhabedi]

wait a second . . . . i am looking at a cheap, used nikon "Dsomething" so i can use my old nikon manual lenses again . . . . that would give me focus and aperture on lens rings . . . the only thing "missing" then is a dial for sutter speed but i think the digital nikons use a thumb wheel (not too far from in concept from a "dial")

 

so . . . using the old lenses gets you pretty close to the manual handling of the D2 . . . .?

 

right ?

 

Yep. It's probably as close as you could get with a digital camera that's not in the list above. You would miss out on the "conceptual elegance" Mike Johnston described, but you could definitely do worse.

[johnwolf]

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I read a post recently on one of the rumor sites -- don't recall which -- about Panasonic working on a m4/3 camera with a fast fixed zoom and an integral viewfinder. That seems to me about as close as we'll get to a D2 successor. But I would welcome it.

 

It's hard to believe Panasonic would now start down a road other than 4/3 and m4/3.

 

John

[adan]

"i am looking at a cheap, used nikon "Dsomething" so i can use my old nikon manual lenses again..."

 

Depends on the model - the sub-D300 cameras don't meter at all with unchipped lenses. The D300/D700/D3(s,x) still have the "AI" ring to sense aperture, so long as one enters the lens max. aperture in a menu.

 

"using the old lenses gets you pretty close to the manual handling of the D2"

 

But an SLR still has mirror slap - and bulk. The unique thing about the Digilux 2 were the manual controls on a (read the following carefully) fairly small, quiet, non-reflex digital camera - until the R-D1, M8 and M9 (and X1, partially).

 

imants - would you consider it "car snobbery" if I said I prefer a car with separate steering wheel, brake pedal, accelerator, gear shift, clutch pedal, door levers, and window controls - to a car with one "control wheel" that steers, or accelerates, or brakes, or tunes the radio, depending on which button I'm pushing?

[daveleo]

Andy

 

I have no intention of trading in my D2 or any other camera, but for short money ($400 ?) , i can get a 3 year old DSLR body with an APS size chip, take my old lenses off the shelf and (almost) go back the good old days that the D2 reminds us of.

 

This idea hit me yesterday and i think i will drop the $400 and see if turns out the way i imagine.

 

UNLESS . . . .Leica thrills us all with a D2 upgrade at Photokina

 

 

no metering? . . . take the shot, check the LCD, shoot again, as necessary . . . . we shot for years with no meters and life was good

[John Thawley]

Hey, JT, I was the guy who welcomed you to the forum and suggested that the D2 was the perfect (almost) pit and paddock cam.

A fact that leaves me puzzled as to when you lost your way. Kidding, of course.

 

But I will say, while you're arguments may be valid, each is accompanied by familiar caveats to counter the analog position(s). That would be all of those things you put into parentheses.

[krabat]

....UNLESS . . . .Leica thrills us all with a D2 upgrade at Photokina

I lost most of my hope that we will see an upgrade or a successor for the Digilux 2.

However, if it really will happen, I will start believing in Santa Claus, which I even did not when I was a child...

 

...no metering? . . . take the shot, check the LCD, shoot again, as necessary . . . . we shot for years with no meters and life was good

Well, the metering of the D2 is IMHO quiet close to perfect. I use the EVF, and it displays the picture for a second after the shot, which is enough for me in most cases.

[LKeithR]

Completely agree. It is really time for an updated version of the Digilux 2.

In addition, why not even think about an upgrade of the existing cameras? Keep the lens and the body, and put completely new electronics into it.

 

What a neat concept! Allow D2 owners to update their existing cameras. The ergonomics, lens and analog controls are perfect just the way they are but a better--read larger--sensor and faster firmware would make an already great camera even better. Sadly, I don't think it will happen but we can dream, can't we?

[regedit]

just imagine a price tag for a new D2 (upgraded version) and you'll figure out quickly why Leica will not produce such a model. Maybe the X2 will be the new D2 (a camera around 2500 $) a bit compact than D2 maybe with incorporated evf (and why not no lcd on the back) and some moderate zoom starting wide - kind of d-lux 24-60.

[krabat]

Well, why should a new D2 be more expensive than your hypothetical X2 for 2500 $?

I think that most D2 users and fans would be happy if a successor would only have an improved electronics, including a new chip and a better EVF. So, no new body or lens have to be developed...

[daveleo]

Postscript to my previous posting . . . .

 

The record here shows how I have loved my D2 now for 6+ years, and I have no plans to sell it off or to retire it.

 

But I just bought a factory re-spec'd Nikon D60 for $320, attached my 1990 vintage 24mm/f2.8 manual lens to it and it works wonderfully (as a 36mm focal length) . . . manual focus ring, manual aperture ring, even manual shutter speed with the little thumb wheel. Instant playback tells me how well I did.

 

And this has a APS size sensor.

 

My point is . . . there are options out there (not expensive options ! ) for the disillusioned D2 lover.

[pop]

... but a better--read larger--sensor and faster firmware would make an already great camera even better. ...

 

A larger sensor within a current camera case with a lens designed for a smaller sensor is not something I would look forward to.

[John Thawley]

A larger sensor within a current camera case with a lens designed for a smaller sensor is not something I would look forward to.

 

I'm guessing he means more megapixels... Not a physically larger sensor.

[krabat]

A larger sensor within a current camera case with a lens designed for a smaller sensor is not something I would look forward to.

Given the bulky size of the D2 lens, I would really like to know if its image circle is really that small that it would not allow a larger sensor. Furthermore, I am pretty sure that the lens has a sufficient quality for a sensor of the same size with more pixels, e.g. 8 MP. Maybe such a modern sensor would allow some higher ISO speed. Finally, why not use another lens for a successor with a larger image circle?

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Look here: Interesting Leica gear

[adan]

Its "digitally friendly" image circle is probably exactly calculated for the 2/3rds sensor. Digital likes lenses that are BIG for the image area - witness the headaches Leica has had with getting the M8/M9 to work with some of the "small" lenses designed for film rangefinders.

 

But you're right that the D2 lens certainly has the quality needed for more pixels in the same space. In the distant past (4+ years ago) I compared my Sony R1 (almost APS-sized sensor, Zeiss lens, 10 Mpixels) to the D2, and the Sony barely edged out the D2 in real resolution. The Sony/Zeiss lens was a (very good) 8 Mpixel lens on a 10 Mpixel sensor - the D2's 28-90 is a 10 Mpixel lens on a 5 Mpixel sensor.

 

Which, I guess, is the argument against "another lens" - the original poster is looking for a way to keep his "presently wasted magnificent Summicron 28-90" employed.

[daveleo]

. . . . But I just bought a factory re-spec'd Nikon D60 for $320, attached my 1990 vintage 24mm/f2.8 manual lens to it and it works wonderfully (as a 36mm focal length) . . . manual focus ring, manual aperture ring, even manual shutter speed with the little thumb wheel. Instant playback tells me how well I did.

 

And this has a APS size sensor.

 

My point is . . . there are options out there (not expensive options ! ) for the disillusioned D2 lover.

 

Well I have to close the loop on my previous remarks.

The made-for-film lenses have a full-format image circle, which of course is larger than an APS sensor. So doing what I said with the D60, you are actually missing a big chunk of the lens's image.

 

So, for the experience of using your old manual lenses to their best extent, you need a camera with a full-frame sensor (as Pete stated up above).

 

I'll shut up now (but I do like this little D60 anyway).