Where is the new 35mm Lux Asph?

[leicashot]

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Have you shot the Summilux? Do you have any actual facts on quality issues with it?

 

One serious pro photographer member here known to me personally likes the results from her fast CV lens (a fast 50) but was unhappy that the aperture blades fell off within the lens and she had to pay for the repair when her warranty claim was disallowed.

 

I've owned several CV lenses (21, 35) and shot just a little with their nice new 28 as well. Those samples all worked fine. I wouldn't use any of them in preference to my modern Leica lenses.

 

I posted an example shot for the thread from the new Leica lens.

 

Here are some facts for you on the CV lens for you since you've asked

On this page from Erwin Puts you can read his review

Voigtlander lenses

In my opinion , not very flattering in comparison to the Leica products. It is in a very different price range/market segment and may well suit some people's needs. That is fine but it is silly to hold it up as the only issue free 35 and just accept internet rumours as fact to support your viewpoint.

But if you have it and like it and have good personal experience with it, by all means share some shots or facts with the forum.

 

So here it begins, the Leica defense, as if I'm invading a country of Leicaphiles.

 

To answer your question, "yes" I have shot with the Summilux. I have even owned the original ASPHERICAL for reference and recently used the ASPH version on an M9 with back-focus and shift issues. I believe that the rumors on the internet are more than just rumors and you'd be naive to think anything else. Every reviewer on the net has found the last ASPH to have shift issues and it is a know FACT that the current model has had issues which has led to it's production being slowed and recall of all lenses that entered the United States. I know this from a Leica representative, yes an employee.

 

I know it's hard to accept but the Nokton 1.2 is an exceptional lens and if you're going to attack it you'd better come up with something better than the typical Leica fanboy talk you used in your post. I love the Leica lenses, and yes I prefer it for it's smaller size and shorter focus throw, and yes it's possible to find good examples...but in general the Nokton is the only current fast 35mm lens without any issues, like it or not. I'm not saying this from a fan point of view. I am saying this from experience and from common knowledge. Why else would Leica have discontinued it for a model that doesn't have many apparent image quality advantages?

 

There's really no need to take offense to what I'm saying. If you have a current ASPH and it works well, then be happy, but that fact alone doesn't make what Im saying any less valid or true.

[thompsonkirk]

I'm sorry, Leicashot, but the 35 1.2 Nokton has its share of issues too. It's a useful but not a top-quality lens. It suffers from barrel distortion and from pretty strong chromatic aberration, as you can see in Sean Reid's tests. It produces a substantial amount of red/green fringing, & often some purple fringing around specular highlights.

 

I'm using one while my 35 pre-asph Lux is away for calibration. It doesn't focus-shift. I like it & it was a bargain, but it's no Holy Grail.

 

You can deal with its issues pretty well in Photoshop, but it's a lens that makes you to take your time in post-processing.

 

CV lenses also vary more than Leica & from CV-made Zeiss, from the standpoint of quality control.

Kirk

[leicashot]

I'm sorry, Leicashot, but the 35 1.2 Nokton has its share of issues too. It's a useful but not a top-quality lens. It suffers from barrel distortion and from pretty strong chromatic aberration, as you can see in Sean Reid's tests. It produces a substantial amount of red/green fringing, & often some purple fringing around specular highlights.

 

I'm using one while my 35 pre-asph Lux is away for calibration. It doesn't focus-shift. I like it & it was a bargain, but it's no Holy Grail.

 

You can deal with its issues pretty well in Photoshop, but it's a lens that makes you to take your time in post-processing.

 

CV lenses also vary more than Leica from the standpoint of quality control.

 

Kirk

 

"Usable, but not top quality?" Oh sorry, excuse me for forgetting it doesn't have a Leica badge on it....Yes Kirk I agree with the barrel distortion, but it's not much worse than the Lux and it's CA is not a big issue at all, nothing like the current Noctilux, but don't misunderstand what I'm saying. I'm not saying it's a holy grail, but it is under-appreciated, and less forgiving than the Summilux ASPH, especially at 1.2 - meaning great results are harder to obtain. I feel the isolation is great with the Nokton so focusing wide open and achieving sharp results takes a lot of practice and skill. Definitely it's OOF areas are smoother than any Lux ASPH I've used, which is the first 2 versions. Yet to try the newest which looks quite similar to the others, not outstanding but certainly not bad.

 

The issues you're mentioning are not as bad as focusing issues and you forgot to mention that it it's highly recommended by Sean Reid, and thats in front of the past ASPH model. Would I swap my Nokton for a workin ASPH? Yes I would, but I need to find one first and the Nokton deserves credit where it's deserved, though not sure it's gonna get it on this forum, which is why I feel the Rangefinderforum is less biased and appreciative of good tools, regardless of the brand. Example here: http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=93943

 

When it comes to lenses, I am a realist and while I always prefer Leica products in general I will give credit where it's deserved, snobbish attitude aside.

[hoppyman]

What absolute rubbish. I attacked nothing. I have never even used that CV lens. Turning your argument around, why are you so defensive and immediately claiming that I am defending Leica whereas your views must be correct because you told us so? Stating that something is a FACT in upper case isn't proof, it is argument. Saying that you believe the internet rumours and calling me naive isn't proof. Some of the language in your post is confrontational and argumentative.

 

"you'd better come up with something better than the typical Leica fanboy talk you used in your post" is pretty immature and impolite in my opinion.

 

Can you show samples as I suggested? Some from when you maintain that you shot the new Summilux and found it to have issues? Some results from the CV lens?

 

I provided a link to a review by Erwin Puts and my personal opinions and a sample from the new lens. You have made some comments giving your opinion, accepted some rumours as fact and passed them on, adding your own that a Leica employee told you so.

Some proof for your claims about recalled stock? If a Leica Camera employee makes a public statement then I will listen. Stock to this country was not recalled. According to my dealer we got 10 in the first shipment, all pre-sold with more back orders remaining. There is no fault whatsover with the example that I purchased. That is a fact with proof in this thread shot specifically to show why I disagree with your comment.

 

Would you like to comment on that review by Erwin Puts and on whether my sample shows any focus issues shot in lower light at f/1.4 at 80cm?

 

As I mentioned, by all means post some links to public resources that support your views.

Find where in the review that Erwin Puts agrees with your opinion that the CV lens is 'exceptional'? If you've got some links to other public reviews, that's cool, please share. I have only seen a couple.

 

From Erwin's paragraph on the CV's optical performance:

... At full aperture (1:1.2) overall contrast is quite low, in fact lower than I have seen in the last ten years......... There is a substantial amount of spherical aberration and a high level of chromatic errors. The edges of small detail are very soft, as there is a very visible amount of colour fringing, even at the 10 lp/mm frequency.....From the description one gets the impression that the lens wide open is not good and that is indeed the case. Compared to a good 1.4/35 (Canon or Leica) the drop in quality is quite big, related to the speed gain of at most a half stop and in practice close to a third stop. ......

From his conclusion:

"The Nokton 1.2/35mm Aspherical is a good performer at smaller apertures, but at the wider apertures, it is just acceptable."

Erwin has some positive things to say about the lens as well. The review is worth reading in its entirety. Erwin has a two part review on the new Leica 35 as well.

SX35FLE, part1

 

So here it begins, the Leica defense, as if I'm invading a country of Leicaphiles.

 

To answer your question, "yes" I have shot with the Summilux. I have even owned the original ASPHERICAL for reference and recently used the ASPH version on an M9 with back-focus and shift issues. I believe that the rumors on the internet are more than just rumors and you'd be naive to think anything else. Every reviewer on the net has found the last ASPH to have shift issues and it is a know FACT that the current model has had issues which has led to it's production being slowed and recall of all lenses that entered the United States. I know this from a Leica representative, yes an employee.

 

I know it's hard to accept but the Nokton 1.2 is an exceptional lens and if you're going to attack it you'd better come up with something better than the typical Leica fanboy talk you used in your post. I love the Leica lenses, and yes I prefer it for it's smaller size and shorter focus throw, and yes it's possible to find good examples...but in general the Nokton is the only current fast 35mm lens without any issues, like it or not. I'm not saying this from a fan point of view. I am saying this from experience and from common knowledge. Why else would Leica have discontinued it for a model that doesn't have many apparent image quality advantages?

 

There's really no need to take offense to what I'm saying. If you have a current ASPH and it works well, then be happy, but that fact alone doesn't make what Im saying any less valid or true.

[leicashot]

What absolute rubbish. I attacked nothing. I have never even used that CV lens. Turning your argument around, why are you so defensive and immediately claiming that I am defending Leica whereas your views must be correct because you told us so? Stating that something is a FACT in upper case isn't proof, it is argument. Saying that you believe the internet rumours and calling me naive isn't proof. Some of the language in your post is confrontational and argumentative.

 

"you'd better come up with something better than the typical Leica fanboy talk you used in your post" is pretty immature and impolite in my opinion.

 

Can you show samples as I suggested? Some from when you maintain that you shot the new Summilux and found it to have issues? Some results from the CV lens?

 

I provided a link to a review by Erwin Puts and my personal opinions and a sample from the new lens. You have made some comments giving your opinion, accepted some rumours as fact and passed them on, adding your own that a Leica employee told you so.

Some proof for your claims about recalled stock? If a Leica Camera employee makes a public statement then I will listen. Stock to this country was not recalled. According to my dealer we got 10 in the first shipment, all pre-sold with more back orders remaining. There is no fault whatsover with the example that I purchased. That is a fact with proof in this thread shot specifically to show why I disagree with your comment.

 

Would you like to comment on that review by Erwin Puts and on whether my sample shows any focus issues shot in lower light at f/1.4 at 80cm?

 

As I mentioned, by all means post some links to public resources that support your views.

Find where in the review that Erwin Puts agrees with your opinion that the CV lens is 'exceptional'? If you've got some links to other public reviews, that's cool, please share. I have only seen a couple.

 

From Erwin's paragraph on the CV's optical performance:

... At full aperture (1:1.2) overall contrast is quite low, in fact lower than I have seen in the last ten years......... There is a substantial amount of spherical aberration and a high level of chromatic errors. The edges of small detail are very soft, as there is a very visible amount of colour fringing, even at the 10 lp/mm frequency.....From the description one gets the impression that the lens wide open is not good and that is indeed the case. Compared to a good 1.4/35 (Canon or Leica) the drop in quality is quite big, related to the speed gain of at most a half stop and in practice close to a third stop. ......

From his conclusion:

"The Nokton 1.2/35mm Aspherical is a good performer at smaller apertures, but at the wider apertures, it is just acceptable."

Erwin has some positive things to say about the lens as well. The review is worth reading in its entirety. Erwin has a two part review on the new Leica 35 as well.

SX35FLE, part1

 

Well if you weren't being defensive before, I guess you're not now. Besides what is your definition of a fact? Erwin Puts?

 

You yourself are discounting the Nokton, which you've never used based on words by Erwin. Your image posted in this thread is proof and fact of what exactly? You can manage to get a shot of a flower in correct focus? Again, please elaborate on what your definition of a fact actually is, because I'm just not following. Most of the apparent rumors you're referring to come from upstanding members on this forum. Are you then accusing them of lying? I don't see you arguing with their comments on those particular posts. Try contacting Adeal in Oz and ask the rep straight up if there was a manufacturing issue with the new model and maybe you'll get the same answer others have received...or maybe not.

 

Amazing that how defensive you're being for someone who isn't being defensive. My comments are related to products, not to your family so why would you get all upset and need to be so ignorant of my comments. Pulling the whole 'facts' issue isn't going to make either case any stronger. If you're failing to admit that the new model has issues thats fine. Why should you feel the need to get upset about my comments. It obviously doesn't relate to your experience as you are saying your copy is fine. Then just be happy with it, and let me express what 'I' believe to be facts, based on my own personal experience and knowledge.

 

With such Leica fanboy talk, this forum becomes a biased dictatorship for Leica fans, and is simply childish and detrimental to good meaningful talk about Leica and it's place in photography. Again, may I state it for the last time. I was not and am not attacking Leica. Every manufacturer has its share of issues. I was stating that the Nokton is the only fast 35mm lens without such focus issues. Like my comment or not, but respect it and enjoy the rest of your day. Why people get so wound up over material things is beyond my comprehension.

[hoppyman]

No facts again and more personal comment and impolite language. Bye then.

[leicashot]

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No facts again and more personal comment and impolite language. Bye then.

 

Maybe you need to take a look in the mirror and see your own posts. You attacked my comments first, so I have nothing more to explain, and probably better you don't even try.

[thompsonkirk]

Leicashot, I read your multiple Nokton posts on RFF & said the same thing there. I mentioned that the lens' problems show up more in color than in BW. CA & fringing aren't very serious when they show up only as shades of gray. So your BW illustrations – which were excellent photographs except for a few burnt-out highlights – couldn't reveal much about these matters.

 

I can't figure out what motivates your truculence on the subject of this pretty-darned-good lens, or why you keep badgering Geoff, who simply disagrees with you. People value different qualities in lenses, & Geoff & Puts say they can't accept distortion or CA or fringing. You've made it clear that these just aren't issues for you. I personally don't relish these features of my Nokton & don't like to spend processing time to overcome them, but I still enjoy using the lens at wide apertures & think it offers amazing value per dollar. My taste runs more to the pre-aspherical Summiluxes than to the more recent ones. I like the low contrast of the Nokton, & its lack of focus shift. So my needs, interests, & tastes place me somewhere in the middle. One really can't say much more than this. If we all shot in the same style & held the same visual values, you might win your long argument. But since we don't, let it go?

 

IMO the stuff about all those elitist Leica-branded snobs doesn't help to advance your opinions. In fact it detracts from them because it'll be heard by many folks as name-calling, which is widely held to be an immature kind of argument.

 

Kirk

 

PS, maybe the thread can go back to its original topic? Tim Ashley posted some shots on the Forum showing interesting anomalies in new Summilux center- vs. edge-sharpness: sharp edges & less-sharp centers, which is the opposite of what one might expect. Perhaps it's this kind of problem that's causing the delivery delay.

[lars_bergquist]

This thread has long ago left both reason and civility behind, and I am NOT going to rejoin it.

 

The old man from the Age of Reason. And Civility.

[leicashot]

Amazing that other members weren't asked to explain the rumors about the production issues of the Lux FLE, but when I mention the Nokton, everything changed. I guess it was wrong of me to compare a CV lens to a Leica lens on this forum. But more importantly because I did such a thing, I am expected to provide proof of my comments and opinions, when the opposing argument does not, only because I'm praising a lens not made by Leica.

 

It's ok, I won't comment anymore, as I don't want to offend any more members here. It's a shame that such an argument has to take place, where someone is made to justify comments because they're not in praise of the forum name. It's ok, I'm happy to leave such a forum where my contributions aren't accepted in an unbiased manner.

[jacarape]

My Banana Pepper plant was a very late germination but it s starting to friut. I should get a dozen or so nice peppers from it before the end of the season. I guess I'll over winter it. Next year I'm going to add some Scotch Bonnets to the Habs, Jalapenos and Cherry Peppers (my favorite). And maybe some Ghost or Naga Peppers, some Peter Peppers just so I can take photos of them and post them on threads like this.

 

https://pepperjoe.com/peterpep.html

[alexmann]

PS, maybe the thread can go back to its original topic? Tim Ashley posted some shots on the Forum showing interesting anomalies in new Summilux center- vs. edge-sharpness: sharp edges & less-sharp centers, which is the opposite of what one might expect. Perhaps it's this kind of problem that's causing the delivery delay.

 

As the OP that's exactly what I was interested in finding out more information on. There does seem to be a complete silence on the matter. Sorry if it has caused some controversy. I do love chillies though.

[zlatkob]

It's ok, I won't comment anymore, as I don't want to offend any more members here. It's a shame that such an argument has to take place, where someone is made to justify comments because they're not in praise of the forum name. It's ok, I'm happy to leave such a forum where my contributions aren't accepted in an unbiased manner.

 

leicashot, don't leave. If you do, then, sadly, another good photographer will be lost to the forum. When there is a dispute on a photography forum, it helps to look at each poster's homepage to get a sense of who they are and what photography they do. Seeing who knows what they're talking about pretty much resolves all debates for me.

 

In early June, forum member Snapper UK posted about his problems with the M9 and he was excoriated on this forum -- until people realized what a good photographer he is. Snapper UK's post count is just 27. Photography forums (and debates) tend to be dominated by photographers who have a lot of time.

[Clandrel]

I know where the new 35 lux is. On my M9 making beautiful pictures. Received it may 20th. No problems at all! It's an amazing lens!

[leicashot]

leicashot, don't leave. If you do, then, sadly, another good photographer will be lost to the forum. When there is a dispute on a photography forum, it helps to look at each poster's homepage to get a sense of who they are and what photography they do. Seeing who knows what they're talking about pretty much resolves all debates for me.

 

In early June, forum member Snapper UK posted about his problems with the M9 and he was excoriated on this forum -- until people realized what a good photographer he is. Snapper UK's post count is just 27. Photography forums (and debates) tend to be dominated by photographers who have a lot of time.

 

Thanks Zlatkob, you are correct in your attitude here, but I've delt with this attitude from Leica goers before and it won't be the last time. Leica users are very different to those who use other brands and I think sometimes that by people (especially Leica users) seeing my work, it works against me. While some amateurs are impressed by my work, there are many that love to hate on it, especially because I work in entertainment. Amateurs like Steve Huff and alike would hold more credibility here than someone like myself because I am neutral in my opinions when it comes to equipment because I lack the emotional attachment most amateurs have, as the lenses are tools for me. I have a strong affection to the Leica brand but very much turned off by the atitude displayed here when raising good points in favor of competing third party products. I have nothing to prove when making comments, and surely no more so than the next forum member. None of this is surprising, but surely disappointing, and one less stress I need in my day. All the best.

[hoppyman]

Alexmann, I asked Andreas to put this question on the list for the meeting with Leica Camera representatives at photokina.

At #14 you can see that I got delivery (one of 10 here) and my lens has no issues with focus accuracy nor quality control.

As the OP that's exactly what I was interested in finding out more information on. There does seem to be a complete silence on the matter. Sorry if it has caused some controversy. I do love chillies though.

[tdtaylor]

Is it not wonderful that so many lenses are made that can satisfy all of our many, varied needs. Compared to the DSLR world (of which I am also a part of), any of our lenses, even those 60 years plus, regularly leave them in the dust . Plus they are just a little bit smaller....

[microview]

My Banana Pepper plant was a very late germination but it s starting to friut. I should get a dozen or so nice peppers from it before the end of the season. I guess I'll over winter it. Next year I'm going to add some Scotch Bonnets to the Habs, Jalapenos and Cherry Peppers (my favorite). And maybe some Ghost or Naga Peppers, some Peter Peppers just so I can take photos of them and post them on threads like this.

 

https://pepperjoe.com/peterpep.html

 

Well, that's more to the point. But maybe you should have hyphenated "over-winter".

[tashley]

Just to chip in. I've now taken over a thousand frames with my M lux 35 in real world rather than test conditions and haven't lost a frame to focus issues. Now I know for a fact that the odd issue I originally identified is there: I can replicate it. But it hasn't affected the work I've made whilst travelling over the summer and the lens is now on my m9 just about all the time. Aside from fringing wide open, it is darned good.

 

Of course when I return to base and go over all the shots on a 30" monitor my opinion may change but for now at least I am a happy bunny.

 

Ps I also grow chillies. Lots of them. I have several Dorset nagas on the go, the world's strongest chilli. And I have what I modestly believe to be the best recipe for chilli jam... It is the 50 lux of chilli jams in fact... ;-)

[Advertisement]

Hallo,

Look here: Interesting Leica gear

[01af]

... it is the 50 lux of chilli jams in fact

But it's not aspherical jam, or is it?