Improve sharpness with burst shooting?

[bill]

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Does this mean that the fewer rules we have (or the more we deny them), the less likely we'll be able to communicate here?

 

You raise an interesting point - maybe more about "conventions" than "rules". If you persist (for example) in posting all your images upside-down, you may justifiably claim to be "different", but equally you may struggle to get your message across, because people just won't bother to make the effort to understand (or stand on their heads). Conventions are a form of social lubricant, after all.

 

Regards,

 

Bill

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[Guest badbob]

Sometimes, during the same meal, I'll use my fork in my left hand as well as my right hand. Granted, I'll make certain that no one is looking before I make the switch.

 

I used to hold the fork like a shovel, and my parents didn't care, despite being above average culturally. But a summer camp counselor whom I despised got on my case about it, and I changed to the more usual thumb-and-two-fingers approach.

 

So I guess that means not all of us require pampering in order to learn something.

[prk60091]

*sigh*.

 

It's a light tight box, chaps, not the Second Coming. There are enough high-horses around here to make a giraffe uncomfortable. This has nothing to do with the X1, and everything to do with an apparent desire to be "different". I hate to tell you this, but you are not the first to be "different"... The camera does not maketh the man.

 

There also seems to be a fundamental misunderstanding going on. I don't give a flying fart if you are using an X1 or a Gandolfi, if you do not understand the basics of aperture, shutter speed, ISO, depth of focus and so on you are simply a monkey-see, monkey-do button pusher. The camera is driving you, not vice versa. Eventually you will produce a masterpiece, but then eventually an army of inky-fingered monkeys will tap out the works of Shakespeare.

 

"Rules" are made to be understood, and followed or disregarded as you wish and need. But if you are going to break a "rule", do so consciously, not by ignorance or accident.

 

As an aside, I am most amused by "...according to your profile you don't even have a digital M and the sole digital camera you claim to have is a dlux4". Apart from being inaccurate, it is the last defensive argument of the "you don't understand me" brigade, seen here many times before.

 

My gripe is with those who regard poor technique as acceptable without even understanding what good technique looks like, or worse, giving it a try. That way lies laziness, and ultimately camera-phones.

 

Regards,

 

Bill

 

here is your public profile dude

Leica Products M7, M2, IID, D-Lux 4 and a bag of lenses > not a digital leica in the bunch

[bill]

ROFL(YSST)

 

...it's out of date, "dude"...

 

*shakes head*

 

Regards,

 

Bill

[jsrockit]

Wait, what the hell happened here? Aren't we supposed to be talking about the merits (and ego reducing factors) of using burst shooting to obtain a sharp image in less than ideal conditions?

[bill]

...you would have thought...

 

Regards,

 

Bill

[prk60091]

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Wait, what the hell happened here? Aren't we supposed to be talking about the merits (and ego reducing factors) of using burst shooting to obtain a sharp image in less than ideal conditions?

 

didn't you hear according to some amateurs in this forum... burst shooting isn't proper technique- therefore it is not allowed - so why discuss it

[pop]

Aren't we supposed to be talking about the merits (and ego reducing factors) of using burst shooting to obtain a sharp

 

We're burst posting, and quite sharply, at that.

[bill]

didn't you hear according to some amateurs in this forum... burst shooting isn't proper technique- therefore it is not allowed - so why discuss it

 

You do make me laugh... You really have a need to win this one, don't you?

 

Let me remind you what I have said, to which you seem to object so strongly:

 

Yup, a machine-gun requires far less skill than a rifle. Just hose your target down.

 

You'll be able to nail hundreds of "decisive moments" and just pick your favourite at your leisure when sitting in front of your screen later.

 

...or you could learn to use your camera properly...

 

Maybe it's time people learned basic good practice instead of relying on technological crutches

 

The point is straightforward, and there is no point in some people getting snotty about it. It's a bit like learning to drive. Master good technique first. Learn to steady your shot through good posture, good grip and control of your breathing. Don't snatch shots, press steadily on the shutter release. Direct-vision cameras like the M and add-on viewfinders are an asset in this regard because you get no blackout at the time of taking the shot; you can see any movement, either your subjects or your own, and shoot again if necessary.

 

Above all, use technology as an enabler not a crutch or a mask for poor skills

 

I don't give a flying fart if you are using an X1 or a Gandolfi, if you do not understand the basics of aperture, shutter speed, ISO, depth of focus and so on you are simply a monkey-see, monkey-do button pusher. The camera is driving you, not vice versa.

 

"Rules" are made to be understood, and followed or disregarded as you wish and need. But if you are going to break a "rule", do so consciously, not by ignorance or accident.

 

My gripe is with those who regard poor technique as acceptable without even understanding what good technique looks like, or worse, giving it a try. That way lies laziness, and ultimately camera-phones.

 

If the (lens) cap fits...

 

Regards,

 

Bill

[prk60091]

Dear Mr Gentlemen Amateur:

 

I think what you are missing is that there is more than 1 way to take an exceptional photo. You take magnificent images if your flickr feed is any indication of your work. Many of your images are better than many of mine.

 

No one in this thread has advocated not knowing the "basics of aperture, shutter speed, ISO, depth of focus and so on . . " I for one do understand the basics...

 

It used to be easier with film. Loaded film - that was your biggest decision B&W (tri-x or plus x) or color (pictures or slides) and then take out your light meter decided what you wanted as an aperture or shutter speed and set your camera.. if the "highlights were blown" oh well that was the image if the shadows were muddied oh well that was the image... (i was never much of a darkroom jockie- yes i learned how to develop B&W and print as well- but that wasn't my thing)

 

Today, with digital cameras we have more control and therefore a greater desire and ability to make the image "perfect"- no blown highlights perfectly detailed shadows....

 

Camera shake is real.

 

The OP came up with a technique that works to avoid shake

 

I commented that Thorsten Overgaard (a well accomplished professional photographer- who visits this forum) used that same technique on the D2 leica.overgaard.dk - Thorsten Overgaard's Leica Sites - Leica Digilux 2 sample photos and tests (as well as Panasonic DMC-LC1) - Page 1 of 3

>

Shooting series instead of singles

I always shoot series of three shots at the time instead of single shots. I do this as a habit I've developed, and because it has some advantages:

1) When shooting in low light you can go as low as 1/8 and 1/4 second and get pictures. The first shot in the series of three will usually have motion blur from you pressing the shutter on the camera, but there's a good chance the next two are completely still.

2) You get more selections, and by experience I can telle that face expressions can change a lot between three shots in a serie. And as the files are so small, I don't mind. I use iView Media Pro (now known as Microsoft Expression) to select photos, and having 3 photos in each row, it's a matter of selecting which of the three to choose. You get used to it.

3) You get a preview of the last shot in the viewfinder, enabling you to change exposure setting,e tc. I never look at the screen on the back of the camera.

The three icons here (from left to right) are Preview, Series and Single shot. Set it to the middle, Series, and you shoot three images in a row.

A series of pictures, three in a row. Three different images; one blurred to the left, one sharp to the right. Now you got something to choose from and the guy is not gonna do the walk again!

(As I edit this, I'm listening to the Danish film director Joergen Leth on my iTunes. He happens to say that "All creative work is about choosing: That word on the first line of the poem, that frame that opens the movie, that tone that sets off the symphony." So there you go, some more stuff to choose from. Use series of photos - or choose carefully the single frame you want as you shoot.)

 

As I mentioned in my first post in this thread: i bracket my exposures +1/-1 and what the camera thinks is spot on... this is because the camera isn't always right or gives me what I want.....

 

I happen to want to get as much of the photo "right" on the SD card (film) so that there is little post to do later... I hate doing post processing as much as I hated darkroom...

 

I still insist that this is as valid technique (here goes that word again) as fixing curves /levels etc in Lightroom and anyone who pendantically says it is not a valid technique is just being elitist and arrogant.

 

I am told fashion photographers will shoot 400-500 frames in a session- to get 6 or so perfect publishable images.....- does it make the published photos "less special"? no. does it make the photographer lazy? no

 

is a camera phone image "bad"? no- but that is a discussion for another forum on another day.

[AlanJW]

Maybe the moderator should shut this one down as it has lost its way.

 

Let's declare Bill the winner, banish everyone else to the back of the classroom, etc etc.

 

Then, instead of this debate, which has gotten pretty childish, everybody can go out and make images any way they'd like and just maybe we will judge them on composition, content, and visual impact and not on the camera settings or the camera brand.

 

Someday I might like having a beer with Bill as I am sure he is a perfectly nice man -- as long as he didn't give me a lecture on how to hold a glass. 8-).

 

For now, i am off to try to capture the action of a fast moving 4 1/2 yr old grandson with my trusty shoot first-pray later technique.

[pgk]

Define sloppy technique

Getting more of the food down your front than in your mouth:D.

[phancj]

Guys! Guys!

 

So after the big slugfest what it all means to me is:

 

1) We should all use perfect techniques of holding camera right and doing all to reduce camera shake- this is imperative

2) In cases where 1) is not possible we can employ the machine gun approach

3) In cases where the shots are not contrived so we may not have another chance for a shot then having used perfect technique nevertheless it is wise to have insurance by firing off another few more shots.

 

I think I for one am going to fire off a few more shots for images that I think matter more to me.

 

And one more thing, try to suppress our ego, and testosterone while we are at it...

[jsrockit]

Man, I do whatever I need to do to get the image I want. I went to school for photography, I know all about shutter speeds and apertures (come on, this isn't difficult), I've done all darkroom processes from cyanotypes to B&W / C-41, to Cibachromes (in all formats)... and I generally make photos by waiting for the right time to press the shutter once. However, I will use this burst method when I think it'll benefit me. I can't let my ego get in the way of a new (to me) technique that doesn't fit with how I usually make my photos. If it works use it. Honestly, non-photographers looking at photos could care less how they were made... they just care if they like it or not. That said, I have to agree with Bill because I have simple rules that I like to follow to feel good about my photography, rules which makes me feel like I accomplished something when I get a good photo. I could never use the machine gun method on the streets... there's no fun in that for me.

[prk60091]

Man, I do whatever I need to do to get the image I want. I went to school for photography, I know all about shutter speeds and apertures (come on, this isn't difficult), I've done all darkroom processes from cyanotypes to B&W / C-41, to Cibachromes (in all formats)... and I generally make photos by waiting for the right time to press the shutter once. However, I will use this burst method when I think it'll benefit me. I can't let my ego get in the way of a new (to me) technique that doesn't fit with how I usually make my photos. If it works use it. Honestly, non-photographers looking at photos could care less how they were made... they just care if they like it or not. That said, I have to agree with Bill because I have simple rules that I like to follow to feel good about my photography, rules which makes me feel like I accomplished something when I get a good photo. I could never use the machine gun method on the streets... there's no fun in that for me.

 

 

i don't think anyone called it machine gunning until Bill gave it that label and quite frankly "machine gunning" is bad- but using technology (automatically bracketing) to get the right look is ok in my book

[h00ligan]

Wll leica is supposed to be a pure breed in cameras and intended for real photographers...they included a burst mode, I'd say the argument is over.

[andybarton]

A series of pictures, three in a row. Three different images; one blurred to the left, one sharp to the right. Now you got something to choose from and the guy is not gonna do the walk again!

 

So, why not shoot HD video, and have 25 frames per second to choose from?

 

Photography, as opposed to picking out a frame from a video camera, is about learning when to click the shutter. When is the right time to make the photo? When is the subject in the right spot and in focus?

 

That's part of the skill.

 

Anyone can use a video camera with follow-focus and get a man walking down a corridor in focus and the right place.

 

To take a photograph of such a scene, requires thought and judgement.

 

This is just my opinion, of course, YMMV.

[andybarton]

Wll leica is supposed to be a pure breed in cameras and intended for real photographers...they included a burst mode, I'd say the argument is over.

 

Come off it. "Burst mode", whatever that means, is not the "Leica way" and you know it as well as I do.

 

This attitude would sadden me to my soul, if I believed in such things.

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[h00ligan]

If it's not the leica way, or the company thinks it is not a right photographic technique to shoot multiple frames, why is it on the camera? That's my point. I don't think I deserve to be told to come off it. I don't really see any flaw in my logic, just a nostalgic mentality. Leica provides, on their compact camera not designed by panasonic, a burst mode. Right?

[andybarton]

Right.

 

Fair enough.

 

Shoot at 3 frames per second everywhere and I'm sure that a "decisive moment" will come your way one day.

 

There are many, many photographers turning in their graves at this very moment.

 

I, for one, am still searching for that moment. And when it comes, and I get that one frame, I will be an extremely happy person.

 

But, this is, of course, only my opinion and, as has been said a million times before, everyone has one.