I know I should be ashamed of myself...

[Norwin]

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Indeed, I should be ashamed to ask the following. However, in all honesty the manual for the SF58 'flash' is really confusing for me...

 

However, perhaps those with a kind heart on this board will understand my plight and permit my being ignorant in reading manuals and provide me an understandable answer to the following question.

 

My question revolves around my use of my M9 with the Leica SF58 flash.

 

When I first purchased both, the flash worked with the M9 when I hit the shutter.

 

Indeed, it must have been factory set and I was perfectly happy in my ignorance - as it worked darn well, too.

 

However, somehow in my effort to be more conversant with both the M and the flash, the flash is no longer is in synch with the shutter. And, whilst I am not trying to be a professional I do wanting to make use of the flash...

 

Thus, those of you who have the M9 and the SF58 and know how both work -

 

PLEASE ( I am on bended knee, here) tell me what and how I need set both...in order to again (simply and easily) function.

 

With my respects,

 

Norwin

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[Guest WPalank]

Norwin,

It's probably the shutter speed that is getting you in trouble. Your shutter speed has to be at 200th of a second OR slower to activate the flash. Synch speed I'd representeby the red squiggly arrow on the shutter control dial.

[Norwin]

It can't be that easy!

 

Or, can it?

 

Sir. What other recommendations do you have that are easily understood and which you would recommend?

 

With appreciation and my respects,

 

Norwin

[meino]

Norwin

 

if the shutter speed is set to A (aperture priority), but there is enough light in combination with the iso and aperture setting, so that the M9 chooses a speed that is higher then 1/180, the flash also doesn't fire.

 

regards

Meino de Graaf

[ronnysoh2009]

I too didn't find the manual all too helpful.

By trial and error after a few weeks, I got a grip on the basics of the SF58:

 

(i) the M9 shutter speed dial needs to be turned to the Red Flash symbol (1/180 seconds?),

which is found in between 1/125 and 1/250 in order for the flash to fire. No other setting in

the M9 matters - only the shutter speed at 1/180 matters. This is the only setting you need

to configure on the M9.

 

(ii) you get most mileage from the SF58 in TTL mode. TTL mode can be set only on

the flash, not on the camera body.

 

(iii) in TTL mode, the SF58 fires off twice, but the two flashes go off so quickly

one after the other that you perceive it as only one flash.

 

(iv) the Exposure Compensation on the SF58 overides the Exposure Compensation

on the M9. If you set 0EV on the M9 but -2/3EV on the SF58, the flash will go off

to give you a -2/3EV compensation.

 

(v) the SF58 autodetects the focal length of the lens you mount on the M9, and adjusts

its narrowness of beam accordingly. Mount a 24mm lens and the SF58 emits a beam

of approx 75°. Mount a 90mm lens and the SF58 emits 20°.

 

(vi) the angle of spread of the beam will remain constant even if you rotate the flash in

all sorts of angles.

 

(vii) you can overide the auto spread angle in the SF58's menu. For example, you can

mount a 24mm lens on the M9, but on the SF58 you select a beam spread corresponding

to a 90mm lens. Doing so will give you a picture of, say, a large portion of a jewelery retail

counter but with a bright emphasis only on a select jewelery item.

 

(viii) pulling out the built-in slide-out diffuser will cause the SF58 to emit a 90° spread,

corresponding to an 18mm lens, irrespective of whatever lens is detected by the M9.

You cannot overide this in the SF58 menu. Pulling out the slide-out diffuser will give you a

90° spread, irrespective of whatever contrary instructions you try to give the SF58.

 

(ix) you can control the ratio of indirect bounce flash and direct fill flash from the SF58's

menu (select MENU, then select that first icon the drop-down menu).

 

(x) the M9's Exposure Bracketing is greyed out automatically once you turn on the SF58.

You no longer have the option to bracket once the flash unit is switched on. I think it may

have to do with the SF58 not being able to keep up with the M9's quick successive shots,

so the Exposure Bracketing function has to be disabled by Leica so as not to mislead users (?)

 

 

Would appreciate others chiming in too, there might be little quirks and pony tricks from the

SF58 I could pick up from you as well.

[sanyasi]

In all seriousness, buy a book on flash. I am a first time flash user and am trying to get the hang of it. I haven't found a good book yet, but I keep reading the same ones over and over. Some things are beginning to sink, particularly when I spend some time experimenting. Yesterday, for example, I got some nice shots of our cat, who was backlit, using TTL.

 

My suggestion is to put the camera on a tripod, build a little still life, and start with TTL, working through the different modes and looking at the results. It helps. Unless you are genius, my guess is that you won't become competent unless you read some secondary sources and do some experimenting.

 

The problem with the secondary books is that they are all written for Canon and Nikon flashes. It isn't always self-evident how to make the translation to the SF-58. So far the best book I have found is On-Camera Flash by Neil van Niekert. If you are not a wedding photographer, you might be put off by the examples, which mostly center on wedding photography, but he is the best at explaining the concepts. An inspiring book is the Hot Shoe Diaries by Joe McNally. You will wish you took every photo in the book, but I find the explanation of the basics to be too general. To some extent, he is showing off by telling you how easy this is, but not really telling you how to set the controls on the flash and what modes you should be in. A bit glib, but worth taking a look at. I suspect it is a better book if you know the basic. He actually puts lighting diagrams in with the text.

 

Jack Siegel

[mgreernz]

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Thanks for ronnysoh's detailed response to the OP. I've copied it and filed it away in my "Digital Darkroom" folder of useful bits and pieces.

 

I too, didn't find the SF58 manual easy to come to grips with - and I have to admit I postponed my learning curve, because I'm not enthusiast of flash anyway. But I've got a wedding to cover in a few weeks time - and although 1.4. Lux's cope really well, a flash is an inevitable necessity at some point or other for a wedding.

 

What I detest even more than flash, is a centre mounted flash on the camera body. So I was greatly helped by a response I received from Bill Parsons this week. I was having difficulty in trying to determine what off-camera cord would match the M9 to the SF58. It turns out it's a Nikon SC-28 TTL ($54.95 from B&H). So that was another piece of handy information to be tucked away safely. Thanks Bill.

[Jeff S]

Sean Reid has a good article on the SF 58, which the OP should read...Welcome to ReidReviews

 

Here's a related forum thread....http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/leica-m9-forum/101461-reidreview-review-leica-sf58-flash-unit.html

 

Jeff

[sabrewolf]

If the shutter fired 'late' check under the menu setting and make sure the Flash Sync is set to First-curtain flash and NOT 2nd curtain

[sanyasi]

(i) the M9 shutter speed dial needs to be turned to the Red Flash symbol (1/180 seconds?),

which is found in between 1/125 and 1/250 in order for the flash to fire. No other setting in

the M9 matters - only the shutter speed at 1/180 matters. This is the only setting you need

to configure on the M9.

 

This statement is incorrect. 1/180 is the dividing line. Any shutter speed that is longer than 1/180 will trigger the Flash in TTL. I just triggered the flash at a longer shutter speed. There apparently are some odd aspects to the SF-58 and the M9, but under the classic theory, this is how the system should work: At any speed faster than 1/180, the shutter is never 100% open at the same instant. When you are at faster speeds, that means a single flash burst will not illuminate everything. At that point, you need high speed sync, which is a series of flashes that will illuminate each part of the image as it appears in the shutter opening.

 

The Sean Reid review referred to earlier indicates that he has heard that the M9 supports HSS, but he hadn't yet found it (if I am reading him correctly). When I attach the SF58, I am not given TTL-HSS mode option. That is consistent with the SF58 Manual, which indicates it is not available on the M8 or M8.2, suggesting the possibility that TTL-HSS isn't available for rangefinders (including the M9).

 

My question: Does that mean if you are shooting at faster speeds than 1/180th that you need to be in Manual mode? I will be experimenting with that this weekend.

[jaapv]

If you shoot the M9 at speeds faster than 1/180th the flash will not fire, irrespective of manual or auto. If you have slower speeds, the flash will "stick" to 180 when operated in auto, and got to the shutterspeed chosen on manual, unless you have selected "slow shutter sync"in the menu when it will vary in auto within the parameters chosen.

[Norwin]

Personally, I'd like to meet the guy or gal who wrote the flash operating booklet that came with this Leica flash...as I seriously wonder why anyone would choose to take what should be a simple system and make it so darn complicated to understand.

 

Indeed, I know you can't learn to drive a Ferrari by reading the owners manual. And, unless you're some sort of techy genius I don't believe it's possible to understand how our Leica flash system works from reading it's operating manual...

 

Therefore, I am grateful for the above recommendations and advice. And, only wish others who had read my first post would have added some comments and clues', as well.

 

However, my guess - is like myself, they too didn't have a clue how the flash works. And, are using natural light whilst their flash also gathers dust. Possibly, also making far better photos with natural light, as well. In fact, I'd recommend to most wanting a flash that the smaller Leica flash might be a better unit to purchase.

 

As for the books which also are above recommended, I appreciate the additional post. However, I believe most of us know how to use a flash and I also believe that there are too many of us new Leica owners who simply did not know how to use this flash with this camera.

 

Nonetheless, I agree...that there must be some other hidden clues that would be nice to add to my knowledge.

 

Please, if you can add something - do!

 

Thank you!!!

[jaapv]

I must confess I am a bit unclear what you mean by the flash not being in sync with the shutter. Does it not fire at all, or does it fire at an inappropriate moment?

[Jeff S]

 

However, I believe most of us know how to use a flash and I also believe that there are too many of us new Leica owners who simply did not know how to use this flash with this camera.

 

 

Sean Reid specifically tests it on the M9.

 

Jeff

[jaapv]

I can only say that the German manual is crystal clear. The problems mentioned in this thread must arise from the translation.

 

As to the OP, It may be that he has set the flash to one of the HSS settings, which are not supported by the M8/9. The only Leica camera that accepts HSS is the R9. To choose this option for any other camera may well confuse the sync moment.

[sanyasi]

If you shoot the M9 at speeds faster than 1/180th the flash will not fire, irrespective of manual or auto. If you have slower speeds, the flash will "stick" to 180 when operated in auto, and got to the shutterspeed chosen on manual, unless you have selected "slow shutter sync"in the menu when it will vary in auto within the parameters chosen.

 

Thanks for saving me the time--no need to experiment with manual flash mode. I am shooting on manual exposure mode, which explains my results. So the bottom line: If shooting faster than 1/180, no flash on the M9 in any mode? That strikes me as something that Sean Reid should add to his list of desired improvements in the next line of cameras. I certainly can envision shooting at 2.0 or 1.4 for a portrait, which means in many cases you will be shooting faster than 1/180 to get the right exposure.

 

Jack Siegel

[jaapv]

Yes - but you will be cropping part of your image, as the M9 does not support HSS. Better use permanent lights in that case. A good video light will do the trick as flash replacement.

[Jamie Roberts]

Yes - but you will be cropping part of your image, as the M9 does not support HSS. Better use permanent lights in that case. A good video light will do the trick as flash replacement.

 

Edit... I see what you're saying, Jaap--if you could cheat the synch on the M9 you'd need to crop for the curtain mis-match, which BTW would be totally ok with me If anyone knows how to synch an M9 higher than 1/180s, please let me know

 

Permanent lights are a total drag for many, many reasons. especially out of the studio. I truly hate shining a light in peoples eyes at a candlelit reception, and video lights are either too small, not bright enough, or much too expensive compared with flash, which can be used indirectly and discreetly.

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[sabrewolf]

Edit... I see what you're saying, Jaap--if you could cheat the synch on the M9 you'd need to crop for the curtain mis-match, which BTW would be totally ok with me If anyone knows how to synch an M9 higher than 1/180s, please let me know

 

Shooting faster than 1/180s in manual mode will turn off the hotshoe thanks to Leica engineer who anticipate people will freak when their flash pictures is slightly blocked by the shutter curtain

[perb]

The only Leica camera that accepts HSS is the R9.

 

...and the M7 and the S2 See here:

 

http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/leica-m9-forum/101461-reidreview-review-leica-sf58-flash-unit-4.html#post1071704

 

Regards

Per