M8/9 users going X1 or vice versa?

[jsrockit]

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I think when I come back soon) we will have to get together and go shooting!

 

I'm cool with that for sure. Just let me know...

[jsrockit]

I think the full frame sensors will become the professional standard with refinements to a point that they can virtually see in the dark with no noise over the next few years.

 

Anything with an APS-C over 6mp is plenty to meet the industry standards for web and print work. I've been using a 6mp Nikon D70s for almost 5 years. I see no need to upgrade it.

 

I think we will see full frame become the standard for most cameras, not only pro cameras. The pro cameras will always have the newest sensor and pro-sumer cameras will have the last generation full frame. It'll happen within the next few years I would think.

[JeTexas]

I think we will see full frame become the standard for most cameras, not only pro cameras. The pro cameras will always have the newest sensor and pro-sumer cameras will have the last generation full frame. It'll happen within the next few years I would think.

 

It would be sweet if we lived in a world where image quality mattered that much, but the only way travel zooms like the V-Lux 20 can have such an extensive zoom is to use a small sensors. I don't see that market going away.

 

I also see the complete integration between camcorder and DSLR within the next three years. Nikon just released one that can do continuous auto focus while in video mode, which was the biggest deterrent for most people working with them for video at the moment.

 

I don't know if that's good or bad. I'm a one man show, so I'll set up my video camera on a tripod and let it run during a presentation while taking photos. Incorporating both functions into one camera would actually limit me unless it was taking video at such amazingly high resolution that I could pull frames out for photos -- but only the Red One can do that at the moment.

[jsrockit]

Yes, I'm not sure of technical limitations (I really just don't know) ... but there was a time when people thought 35mm cameras couldn't get any smaller, and they did. I know it is different, but if people want to make it happen...they will. That said, perhaps we will just keep seeing better small sensors on the low end. I'm not a big zoom fan, so I wasn't even thinking of those.

[h00ligan]

I think we will see full frame become the standard for most cameras, not only pro cameras. The pro cameras will always have the newest sensor and pro-sumer cameras will have the last generation full frame. It'll happen within the next few years I would think.

 

I completely agree with you - in terms of DSLR, if it doesn't break the idea is to keep the 7d until that becomes reality. I do wonder though about necessary distances to the lenses for compacts and ff. In terms of something like mft or nex, I'm not sure they could even be that size without redesigning lenses, which means a new system to buy into. Probably something like the x1 (from any manufacturer) will be first compact and ff.. fixed lens.

 

 

I don't know if that's good or bad. I'm a one man show, so I'll set up my video camera on a tripod and let it run during a presentation while taking photos. Incorporating both functions into one camera would actually limit me unless it was taking video at such amazingly high resolution that I could pull frames out for photos -- but only the Red One can do that at the moment.

 

On the other hand if a camera did both very capably you could buy two of the same camera, and have redundancy in one or the other arenas.

[JeTexas]

On the other hand if a camera did both very capably you could buy two of the same camera, and have redundancy in one or the other arenas.

 

That's an interesting point. The only downside I see is possibly having to buy duplicate lenses.

[Jamie Roberts]

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{snipped} the sensor is the film and in a perfect world the digital body would be priced to reflect its engineering and impermanence rather than like an analog machine that is never truly outdated. this is where i believe the m9 is mispriced. in fact, leica's pricing of the m9 effectively pushes into the corner of not being too quick to release better versions lest they destroy the pricing model they have -- people paying up to buy a classic machine that can be handed down to the grandchildren. {snipped}

 

No, I think you're mistaken about this, and Harry has it right: an M9 will produce the same prints it does today in 10 (or 15 or 20) years. Unless printing itself changes so drastically that an image produced by the M9s technology will look "quaint" I see no reason why an M9 couldn't be a great, no-hassle image maker for 15 years.

 

Ok, that's not a lifetime purchase. And it's true that print tech might change a lot. But so will processing technology, and the M9 can always take advantage of those things too. FWIW, print gamut alone hasn't changed very much over the last few decades, and if anything, many optical print techniques were arguably better, as far as colour gamut and print stability goes, than current digital techniques.

 

And I suppose it's true that in 20 years + you might not be able to get an SD memory card (though Redbook CDs & media haven't changed in 30 years now) or a battery, and so on, but for at least a decade or more you should have no problems with an M9 producing fabulous prints.

 

I don't agree, btw, from what I've seen that the M9 and X1's image quality are the same, either. The X1 is very good; the M9 is outstanding. Can you see a difference in a print? Depends on the person behind the camera, not the camera so much But you have more creative choices with the M9 than with the X1, and the M9 is much easier to operate quickly when you know how to work the rangefinder.

 

So I think your assumption is incorrect. With the M9 you are paying for a first-class digital rangefinder that is hand-built. They're selling as many of them as they can, so I don't think, really, it's about having a classic...A lot of photographers I know are buying them for their ergonomic advantage and, of course, for the stunning results you can get from working with the existing lens variety and quality.

[h00ligan]

Possibly one general purpose.. but most people I am familiar with wouldn't shoot video and stills with the same lens given a choice. They don't want to use a big zoom at reduced quality for stills for the most part... thinking in terms of event photography. Even at weddings people keeping two bodies with different lenses. So while i could see maybe some very slight duplication, I'm not sure it would be much.

 

Anyway interesting thought to know your vid cam can back up your stills cam and vice versa - could actually save money in the long run for pros doing both.

[JeTexas]

Possibly one general purpose.. but most people I am familiar with wouldn't shoot video and stills with the same lens given a choice. They don't want to use a big zoom at reduced quality for stills for the most part... thinking in terms of event photography. Even at weddings people keeping two bodies with different lenses. So while i could see maybe some very slight duplication, I'm not sure it would be much.

 

Anyway interesting thought to know your vid cam can back up your stills cam and vice versa - could actually save money in the long run for pros doing both.

 

 

I think we're still two or three years away from it becoming a real possibility, though. The limited frame rates and poor motion capture of the current DSLRs still has them running behind the average prosumer camcorder. The Red Scarlet was supposedly going to revolutionize the industry by giving us a true camera that could do both, but two years later, it's still vaporware.

 

Getting back on the topic of Leicas, are you happy or sad that the Leica X1 and M9 don't allow video capture?

[h00ligan]

I wouldn't expect it in the m line - the x... i think it would have been a nice addon (providing there was no cost to iq).. i shoot video rarely, so I also wouldn't pay more for it overall it was relatively irrelevant to me.

[JeTexas]

I wouldn't expect it in the m line - the x... i think it would have been a nice addon (providing there was no cost to iq).. i shoot video rarely, so I also wouldn't pay more for it overall it was relatively irrelevant to me.

 

I really think the video ability is all in the firmware. I'm kind of glad they left the X1 a pure photography camera, though.

[andrekeli]

I am a DLux4, gone to X1 and going to M

Still have both cameras and going to keep them even after M..for AF/macro break

unless wifey starts screaming...

 

Just can't get enough of Leica...

 

Luv it!