35mm lens delivery

[markowich]

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i was poised to pick up the S2, 70mm, 180mm and 35mm lenses tomorrow but today my dealer in vienna (who treats me extremely well) told me that leica just cancelled the promised delivery of the 35mm lens to him without any indication of an actual delivery date. i need a wide angle lens to be able to take the S system on upcoming trips to india etc, so it will be D3x again...unless leica does the unexpected....

funny way to treat customers.

peter

[markowich]

i was poised to pick up the S2, 70mm, 180mm and 35mm lenses tomorrow but today my dealer in vienna (who treats me extremely well) told me that leica just cancelled the promised delivery of the 35mm lens to him without any indication of an actual delivery date. i need a wide angle lens to be able to take the S system on upcoming trips to india etc, so it will be D3x again...unless leica does the unexpected....

funny way to treat customers.

peter

 

 

i called leica and after looking into the matter they promised delivery of the 35mm S lens by monday.....i have confidence that it will happen. will report back afterwards.

peter

[Vladimir Sadov]

Good luck with your second shot at S2 Peter!

 

I really like the 35mm lens btw.

[c6gowin]

That is great news Peter. You have a great opportunity to really put the system throughh it's paces on the India trip. I am especially interested in the 35mm performance and look forward to reading about your experience. Hopefully, it will go much better than your first attempt with the S2.

[earleygallery]

Out of interest what's changed to make you buy into the S2 again (if I recall correctly you previously tried one but were critical of the noise and lens performance?).

[markowich]

Out of interest what's changed to make you buy into the S2 again (if I recall correctly you previously tried one but were critical of the noise and lens performance?).

 

james,

it is the ergonomics combined with better base iso IQ than the D3x, which should translate into larger printsizes. i am convinced that my P65+ and the H3DII50 deliver even better IQ but i feel i do not want to live with their weight/form/ergonomics any more.

i have downscaled my expectations on the S system (raised partly by leica's commercial campaign and partly by overenthusiastic salesmen) to reasonable levels and i shall (try) not (to) compare the S2 to the top end MF offerings of hassy and phase.

i also expect a lot from the S wide angles.

peter

[kidigital]

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I'm hoping that Leica has helped push the ergonomics/usability design element forward for the MF category. For end-users that mainly shoot in a studio setting or landscapes on a tripod, the current state of MF camera design is passable. But, for those who want to carry around a larger MF size sensor into nontraditional settings, the S2 is a giant leap forward in usability. (I'm speaking as someone who used a P45+ back and Phase camera for over a year in such an attempt.)

 

Kurt

[Guest guy_mancuso]

james,

it is the ergonomics combined with better base iso IQ than the D3x, which should translate into larger printsizes. i am convinced that my P65+ and the H3DII50 deliver even better IQ but i feel i do not want to live with their weight/form/ergonomics any more.

i have downscaled my expectations on the S system (raised partly by leica's commercial campaign and partly by overenthusiastic salesmen) to reasonable levels and i shall (try) not (to) compare the S2 to the top end MF offerings of hassy and phase.

i also expect a lot from the S wide angles.

peter

 

Good luck Peter and now you know your expectations of the S2 and hopefully anything I may have brought to the table helps you understand those expectations and limitations as well. Have a fun trip as well, little jealous.

[ptomsu]

Peter

 

enjoy the S System!

 

I am keen to read your feedback as I have pretty similar thoughts as you WRT form factor, IQ I need etc.

 

Peter

[markowich]

Good luck Peter and now you know your expectations of the S2 and hopefully anything I may have brought to the table helps you understand those expectations and limitations as well. Have a fun trip as well, little jealous.

 

thanks guy! the getdpi review of the S2 is the best out there so far. it helpped a lot to gauge my expectations.

peter

[Guest guy_mancuso]

Thanks and that was what it is supposed to do was help make you aware of the system. Look forward to your comments in the field with it from India.

[rob_x2004]

Peter I thought you had an S2 and pissed it off. Are you going round again? What's the motivation this time?

[earleygallery]

Peter I thought you had an S2 and pissed it off. Are you going round again? What's the motivation this time?

 

I've already asked that one and he's already answered - take a moment to read the thread!

 

Peter, thanks for answering, genuine interest although an S2 is way out of my league financially. Good luck with the trip/shoot, I'll be interested to hear how you feel the S2 performs.

[gogopix]

I'm hoping that Leica has helped push the ergonomics/usability design element forward for the MF category. For end-users that mainly shoot in a studio setting or landscapes on a tripod, the current state of MF camera design is passable. But, for those who want to carry around a larger MF size sensor into nontraditional settings, the S2 is a giant leap forward in usability. (I'm speaking as someone who used a P45+ back and Phase camera for over a year in such an attempt.)

 

Kurt

 

Dear Kurt

 

I assume you are referring to the weather etc protection, but you may also be talking about the weight and balance. I was surprised that the 20-25% difference in wieght S2 to Contax/P65+ was so noticeable. In my last shot in Ireland, even the Alpa TC?P65 was clumsy compared to the S2.

 

So, to me, sitting here recovering from my fourth rotator cuff surgery, These ergonomic issues are non-trivial. BTW my orthopaedist claims cameras, and bags can be a real cause of shoulder injuries (I am trying to convince my health insurance carrier to donate $20k toward an S2 as a 'prophylactic' measure against furure surgeries :-)

 

Peter, your point about expectations is key; if we were all hell bent on op quality we would be carrying 8x10 and Multi-shot cameras for everything. Instead, I still find great pleasure in the convenience of the Digilux 2 (and really nice rendering), the M9 for 'walkaround' and even the old DMR for wildlife (after all is said and done, those 10 MP from DMR, placed with a 400mm or 560mm lens still get the goods.)

The 37MP of the S2 is a nice step up, esp when the 'step' may be up 3,000ft of mountain in Corsica or Alps!

 

Peter, will welcome your comments; next shoot is France in August, so I am keen to know whether a 35, 70,180 is in the cards or not.

 

regards

Victor

[Guest guy_mancuso]

Folks you need to add up the weight as a system. The S2 is lighter yes but the lenses are heavier and just the opposite of the Phase system. I think with normal lenses on both systems it was only a couple ounces but now add in the rest of the glass and that balance may actually favor the Phase setup. And the size in total mass would most likely still be the same as far as bags and such. I have not done the math over the total systems but either way your not going to gain or lose ground on either system with 3 or 4 lenses. It does become extremely close. So if that is a big concern get you calculators out and start adding it up. And start comparing size the Leica glass is pretty big guys with 82mm filter sizes and I think the biggest one for a Phase lens is 77 and that maybe one of them as the others are much smaller. Seriously if this is a big concern don't fool yourself figure it out. Yes the Phase and Hassy are more square but that does not always make them heavier as a system or bulkier overall in a package. Check yourself

 

Remember and I have said this a million times don't buy a camera buy a whole system because eventually you will have a whole system in the bag and everything counts from focal lengths , accessories plus weight and bulk.

[bill]

Remember and I have said this a million times don't buy a camera buy a whole system because eventually you will have a whole system in the bag and everything counts from focal lengths , accessories plus weight and bulk.

 

Ah.

 

The problem with that theory is that you also take a heck of a hit when you trade out of a whole system into another whole system, eh Guy?

 

Regards,

 

Bill

[Guest guy_mancuso]

You will always take a hit regardless if it is a body and lens or a whole system. Obviously some brands or systems hold value better and some worse. The M system for example has held very well but the R system for a lot of folks still waiting, they lost there shirts. Worst problem that has happened in recent times is the economy and that has hit harder on some systems than others. Obviously to early to tell with the S system but Hassy, Phase Sinar and leaf has taken a hit for several reasons economy and returns back to 35mm. Now I don't know anyone that has a body and lens only so not sure what your real point is Bill but almost everyone has a system of some sorts. MF is a very small market to start with and one does have to be careful on the residual values. One nice thing about backs which i know i have enjoyed is the trade up programs and that has been very favorable as you increase the mpx count and newer backs. I know Jack jumping to the P65+ was a no brainer as far as a upgrade and my P40+ from the P30+ was a outright steal. Hassy has been even more aggressive in the upgrade path on savings. Obviously the whole idea is to keep customers in that brand which is a good thing. MF only has a few players anyway and switching brands is not gaining a whole lot and most backs share the same sensors. My P40+ is a cropped version of the P65+. S2 shares the same Kodak basic sensor with a H50. So switching brands in this area may not be a big swing like a Canon to Nikon which have different sensors.

 

But if you want to talk worst case the R is a classic example of getting left in the dust , will the S have the same outcome. With that in mind for a prospective S buyer that will play a role. I know i have thought about it when considering the S2. That's 50 k in smoke if Leica says they don't want to play anymore. Track record can turn it's ugly head too. Again this is simply doing your homework when you start laying out that check to buy, obviously some will not care but when your talking 20k up these decisions become increasingly more important. As I have said a million time do your homework here , test the systems and make smart decisions for yourself and watch who the hell you are talking too when writing that check and what benefits they gain from you writing it.

[c6gowin]

...Remember and I have said this a million times don't buy a camera buy a whole system because eventually you will have a whole system in the bag and everything counts from focal lengths , accessories plus weight and bulk.

 

You make a valid point and hint at big issue often over looked when you referred to accessories. I loved my M8 system for is small size and portability, but despised the odd, large battery charger supplied with the camera. The charger really added bulk (not much weight) to the overall system size when traveling. Fortunately, Leica learned their lesson on the M8 because now they have significantly reduced the size of battery chargers for their current line of cameras. The S2 uses only one battery which lasts a very very long time and the charger is about as small as I can imagine possible. This helps greatly in reducing the overall bulk and weight of the S2 for traveling.

[Guest guy_mancuso]

Good point my setup is a pain with batteries. I pack the dual charger in my suitcase for sure but I carry 4 extra batteries and not to mention extra double AA's for the body itself. So yes the S2 battery will be a advantage the downside though and this is something else that needs considering. I can replace or buy a very common video cam battery for the back pretty easily and AA are available almost anywhere. The downside for the S2 and Hassy actually is the proprietary battery that you can't just walk into a Best Buy per say and get a replacement. So yes you save weight but now you may think i need 3 to travel with and they are bigger than the Phase battery. Obviously the numbers are what you want to cover but more decisions on how you want to be setup. And I do agree the S2 battery has some really good life to it. All this stuff has to be considered. One other thing the S2 actually fits the common bag as well since most of the shoulder bags( Domke for instance ) is setup for 35mm style. Again more crap to think about. I carry a small backpack but if I wanted a shoulder bag than some things change because of the designs. Most folks don't even think about this stuff.

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[gogopix]

Guy, Mark

 

Good points on the system view. But eveybody decides on their criteria; I will submit that you need to test in your own 'way of doing things'

I need to take everything with me... for the day. Couldn't care less about chargers, but I forgot to say that with the S2 vs Contax/P65 I didn't count the weight of the three extra P65 batteries I needed to carry, where I never ran out on the S2.

BTW, in weight comparisons I was referring to a camera, back, lens ,hood combo

 

My needs are likely different since MOST of my activity is 'on the move' in cities countrysaide etc. I also use a backpack-camera carrier that is also good to get thru security (laptop, lenses)

 

I don't think anyone is going to change systems quickly- I'm certainly not rushing into a S2 system. I've had the Contax/Phase for years (back to the Kodak and film before that) However I also have more hassey glass than Contax so an S2 H-V adapter is important.

 

But the feedback from S2 owners is positive, and the hammering on the 'where's the lenses' seems to have abated ...(I also see in fora; where's the H4d60? where are the rest of the Mamyia lenses?, where's the Pentax?...everybody misses deadlines, Leica just seems to have made it into an artform! :-)

 

regards

Victor