NEW Backup Info

[wparsonsgisnet]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

There have been *innumerable* threads about backing up images and various solutions ranging from CD/DVD's (not suitable) to mirrored disks and raid arrays.

 

I happen to use 3 copies of mirrored directories on 3 external drives, the last of which is in a fireproof box in my detached garage.

 

I thot I lived in Utopia, of course.

 

Now the techies at work inform me that the disks that are offsite will lose their coercivity over time and that I need to exercise them.

 

Of course, I have just replaced my dead windoze pc with a MacBookPro. ALL my data is intact, but it happens that I cannot write to any of these windoze disks.

 

However, the suggestion was to run a defrag program to touch all the sectors and thus energize them.

 

SO, one more damn computer task for we photogs: a periodic defrag of our inactive backup disks.

 

I got a copy of idefrag for this purpose, as Apple thinks defrag is a dirty word.

NOTE: only the analysis portion of the defrag process needs to be carried out.

[elgenper]

....

 

Now the techies at work inform me that the disks that are offsite will lose their coercivity over time and that I need to exercise them.

 

.....

 

Well, did they say how often? After all, while old audio tape recordings do deteriorate (echo, noise & c), they usually stay acceptable for decades of shelf life. Digital media should be even more immune, since only 2 levels of magnetization are used (either none or oversaturated).

 

Also, even actively used disks have portions that are almost never actually accessed: when did an average Mac owner last access bundled software like Chess, Grapher or VoiceOver Tool? Yet, I bet they´ll start without a hitch if you suddenly feel the urge....

 

That said, bearings should be exercised, tiny particles centrifuged off the disk surface & c, so they should indeed be run periodically. But they will if one keeps them updated regularly. Also, they won´t last forever, and nor will the technology used, so they have to be replaced with newer units after some years (and the different copies shouldn´t be on he same make of disks bought at the same time).

[wparsonsgisnet]

Well, did they say how often? After all, while old audio tape recordings do deteriorate (echo, noise & c), they usually stay acceptable for decades of shelf life...

 

I agree about audio tape, and the "great" recordings from the 50's, like those from Mercury, are still in excellent electronic shape, tho the acetate needs to be babied.

 

I thot the hard disks would be similar and was stunned to hear the warning.

 

I came away from my enlightening discussion planning to do an annual tweek.

[roguewave]

Bill, have you looked at the various Drobo offerings? I have a Drobo Share which works flawlessly with both my Imacs & PCs. The cost of 2TB drives is diving & the smaller units can hold 8TB, allowing almost 4 TB to be mirrored at a very reasonable price. You don't need to keep the Drobo running 24/7 either, only as needed. The form factor is about the size of the both that a WD 2TB drive comes in. & it's almost silent.

[mby]

Dear Ben,

 

an importnat point to remember is that a RAID system isn't a proper backup solution, it's just a way to extend size, improve speed, or increase reliability of drives but doesn't protect against data loss, either with manual, or technological cause...

 

Best,

Michael

[stunsworth]

Michael you are correct, for total protection you need an offsite backup - and even then in the event of a disaster you will lose everything since the last backup (I'm assuming most home users don't have changes automatically journaled to an off site server). However for many users something similar to the Mac Timemachine will mean that they are protected from both disc failure and accidental deletion of files.

[wparsonsgisnet]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

thanks, Ben. I've looked at the Drobo offerings and they do look nice.

 

Since I'm now a damp-pants owner of a MacBookPro, I am using Time Machine for the primary backup. I have 1TB at home and another 1TB at work for this task, so everything in the MBP is always backed up.

 

I am also using 2 additional 1TB disks at home for mirroring of pix and video; I alternate swapping these into the fireproof box in the detached garage.

 

When my windoze machine crashed, I didn't lose anything -- except local mail folders. Everything else is down on the farm (disk farm). I'll pull the disk out of the dead dozer and read what I want into the new set of disks.

 

Have I said I like the MBP?

 

Anyway, the idea was to mention the need to refresh the charge of off-site backup disks. There are many here who have disks off-site and this is the first time this particular issue has come up. Good thing I know some other nerds.

 

Regards,

[roguewave]

Dear Ben,

 

an importnat point to remember is that a RAID system isn't a proper backup solution, it's just a way to extend size, improve speed, or increase reliability of drives but doesn't protect against data loss, either with manual, or technological cause...

 

Best,

Michael

 

That is not the entire story. With a 4-8 disk array I have at least 2 -3 complete backups, even if a loose a drive. I always backup to other media as well & take them offline & store them in bank vault. To outright say that this kind of a solution is not secure backup is false, Most of all the professional image makers I know use one or more of the Drobo systems. It is a very strong, efficient & elegant heart to any backup strategy.

[ASpes]

...

Now the techies at work inform me that the disks that are offsite will lose their coercivity over time and that I need to exercise them.

...

However, the suggestion was to run a defrag program to touch all the sectors and thus energize them.

...

NOTE: only the analysis portion of the defrag process needs to be carried out.

 

Sorry Bill, but I beg to differ from your techies, not about the issue, but about the solution they seem to suggest.

 

Though I recognise that a periodic check of our backup drives can be useful to see if all is working as expected, just reading a sector of an hd by definition will not change it, it will not definitely "energise" it again, you do that *only* when you *write* to it.

 

The defrag test will not certify the readability of your data, but just of the "map" of your hd, a necessary but small portion of it indeed, unless of course it relocates some files, but again this would affect only the ones involved. At most it will just exercise the drive mechanics, but this could be seen as a double edged sword, as it wears it too, especially if you don't let it warm up long enough. Besides, while it's working, any event that could affect it will likely do more damage to its data than when it's off.

 

The only way to "re-energise" an hd would be to read every sector on it and write it back again with the same info. Guess I could write something of that kind, but it would much simpler to copy it on another disk and back again, though this would leave anyway the low level formatting unaffected (on an hd format is just logical and will not touch it).

 

In practice, having the three canonical copies, I would just copy all the data to the oldest one from the newest. As an optional step you could format your destination drive before the copy (and let it warm up before formatting).

 

Maybe do that once a year, so each hd will get fully "restored" every three years and you will get the most from them in terms of durability and reliability. After 5 to 7 year of this buy new ones. But guess that by then we will have better storage solutions than an hd ...

 

All the best.

[ASpes]

...

an importnat point to remember is that a RAID system isn't a proper backup solution, it's just a way to extend size, improve speed, or increase reliability of drives but doesn't protect against data loss, either with manual, or technological cause...

...

 

 

If a RAID is not an option to have a reliable backup of our data, I wonder what could be ... a RAID solution cannot prevent a drive to fail, but, if properly used, it will prevent the data loss that would come from this event. Isn't this what we call and use a backup for?

 

I agree that RAID *alone* will not cover all user mistakes, but as always it depends on how we use and setup our system ... and a night sleep is sometimes a more foolproof solution.

 

Unless I miss your point of course ...

[wparsonsgisnet]

Sorry Bill, but I beg to differ from your techies, not about the issue, but about the solution they seem to suggest...

Though I recognise that a periodic check of our backup drives can be useful to see if all is working as expected, just reading a sector of an hd by definition will not change it, it will not definitely "energise" it again, you do that *only* when you *write* to it...

Maybe do that once a year, so each hd will get fully "restored" every three years and you will get the most from them in terms of durability and reliability. After 5 to 7 year of this buy new ones. But guess that by then we will have better storage solutions than an hd ...

 

All the best.

 

Bummer. I can see your point; I didn't realize that the analysis phase was only reading the directories, but should have thot it.

 

This makes my life more difficult, because these are windoze drives so I'll have to copy them, because the Mac can't write to them in their present state.

 

Well ... that'll be the real test of their safety, won't it.

 

Nuts.

[richam]

I got a trial copy of Memeo with a HD I bought and like it. It might work for you. You set up any number of backup schemes, and It keeps the backups up to date whenever changes are made. It works in the background once you have set it up. I have two locations where I keep two powered backup disks each in sync with my Mac Home folder. I also have a 1TB USB powered portable disk with each location's Pictures folder. I carry that disk to and from both locations, and use it to sync the Pictures folders. This gives me multiple and up to date backups of everything I need in two locations.

 

Haven't worried about the HD re-write problem, but the solution is simple. Simply re-format one of the backup disks every year or so, and Memeo will start a new complete backup on that disk. This may take several days or even weeks to complete depending on how much time I have the computer turned on. But it doesn't disturb anything else I'm doing on the computer. Once the new backup is completed and verified (a Memeo option), changes continue to be saved. Will try this soon, but I don't think it's necessary to re-write every disk every year. One disk per year ought to be more than enough.

[mby]

That is not the entire story. With a 4-8 disk array I have at least 2 -3 complete backups, even if a loose a drive. I always backup to other media as well & take them offline & store them in bank vault. To outright say that this kind of a solution is not secure backup is false, Most of all the professional image makers I know use one or more of the Drobo systems. It is a very strong, efficient & elegant heart to any backup strategy.

 

Dear Ben,

 

Completely agree that if your backup strategy also includes offline/other medias and offsite storage beyond using RAID drives, it looks very good.

 

Just FYI: RAID - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

Best regards,

Michael

[wmyowell]

Why don't you consider Carbonite? That's an off site backup which is quite reasonable.

 

Carbonite Knowledge Base

 

Bill Yowell

[wparsonsgisnet]

I'm going to check out memeo.

 

What really blows my mind is that my worksite blocks access to their website. Maybe they have some streaming video turtorials that have triggered the auto censoring.

 

I am SERIOUSLY considering one fo the personal wifi hotspot devices.

[richam]

I'm going to check out memeo.

 

What really blows my mind is that my worksite blocks access to their website. Maybe they have some streaming video turtorials that have triggered the auto censoring.

 

I am SERIOUSLY considering one fo the personal wifi hotspot devices.

 

I just checked my Memeo LifeAgent for the Mac invoice. It was $29.95 as of July last year. Good luck.

[brucek]

Another suggestion for Mac users (unrelated to backing up image files) would be to invest in a FireWire drive and use SuperDuper! to backup your OS hard drive often. I do it nightly. The biggest benefit is that if the hard drive in your Mac fails you can boot off of the external FW drive that was saved using SD. Works very nicely and has saved my butt many times.

[richam]

Another suggestion for Mac users (unrelated to backing up image files) would be to invest in a FireWire drive and use SuperDuper! to backup your OS hard drive often. I do it nightly. The biggest benefit is that if the hard drive in your Mac fails you can boot off of the external FW drive that was saved using SD. Works very nicely and has saved my butt many times.

 

Interesting. I'll have to try it out. But I don't think you need a firewire drive unless you have a Power PC processor. If you have an Intel Mac, you should be able to boot from a USB drive. I've made bootable USB drives for my Intel Mac, and they work fine.