M8 is the master of digital black and white (as before with film)

[telyt]

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.. my question remains. How do I print my digi M8 pics.

 

I send my b/w files to a lab with either a LightJet or a digital LCD enlarger printing on silver-halide b/w paper. In the USA two labs I know of are Reed Photo-Imaging and San Miguel Photo Lab

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[Jamie Roberts]

For printing BW digitally--whether from negs or from digital (pace, Vic)--there are two methods I think do the image justice...

 

1) the new K3 inkset on one of the new "rag" papers from Crane (museo silver rag) or Hahnemuhle (Fine Art Pearl). After years of printing in the darkroom with fiber-based papers, these are the ones closest to my heart now.

 

Come to that, if you have a RIP, and can play with ink-limiting (in black), then the old Epson ultrachrome inkset (glossy black) works really well on those papers too.

 

2) I personally very much like the look of BW printed from a Lambda printer on something like Endura pebble. I've sold a lot of BW prints this printed this way. Very high dMax, and resembles Ilford RC paper, but with better longevity

[dealy663]

Some b/w prints just are not comparable to the very best inkjet prints, while others are simply so stunning and I've yet to see an inkjet print that surpasses them. One thing to keep in mind is that they are simply different technologies that have different looks. Is the very best platinum print better than the very best silver gelatin print? I have to tell you I've seen some absolutely stunning platinums by Robert Mapplethorpe that were the most beautifully printed platinum photos I've ever seen. And just 2 days ago I saw to original prints by Ansel Adams (Clearing Winter Storm and Monolith the Face of Half Dome). Now this was the first time I've seen the later prints done by Ansel himself (they were printed in the late 70's or early 80's). Were they better than Mapplethorpe's? No, not to everyone. They were different, and also absolutely stunning.

 

Just to add some perspective, next to the newer monolith print was one of Ansel's earlier prints of the same neg, either from the 20's or 30's. That original print was relatively flat, and could easily be surpassed by just about any of the new inkjets, and a knowledgeable operator.

 

you say tom-Ay-toes I say tom-Ahh-toes.

 

 

Derek

[wilfredo]

Erl:

 

You ask: "How do I print my digi M8 pics. I already know how to view them digitally. Sorry to hammer the point, but it really vexes me." I'm wondering, do you do any digital printing? I have an Epson 2200 and I've gotten really nice results with it. I'm upgrading to the Epson 3800 once I can get my hands on one. I'm not a techo whiz but I know a good print when I see one. The new Epson has improved B&W printing capabilities, so I'm really looking forward to that.

 

Frank,

 

My workflow is very simple and basic. I desaturate the color on PSCS and to improve the tone I use the color balance mostly sliding the yellow to minus 7 and the magenta to minus 2. That usually puts me in the zone. I'm also not afraid to use the contrast slider and I do basic dodging and burning. All stuff I used to to in the darkroom. That's basically it.

 

Vic,

 

I noticed you used the term "real B&W" and I think this reveals a bit of a prejudice against giclee prints. I like to think of it in terms of Chemical and Digital, both modern technical methods to achieve the same goal, a photograph.

 

 

Here's something I did this morning and posted on the photo-forum. The print looks lovely :-).

 

Peace,

Wilfredo

Benitez-Rivera Photography

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[lovelyleica]

Thank you all for your comments and thanks. Here is some more informations and photos :

 

Rendering pictures on a display :

- Pictures were "developped" on a MacBook with glossy lcd, which makes you feel images as if they were printed on a high glossy photo paper (without all nice touch feeling of a good high grade photo paper of course). But the impression of contrast is much higher than on a "normal" LCD display. I checked my web page on a PowerBook equiped with normal display and the pictures look definitely softer.

- my display is calibrated with colorvision + gamma 1.8 + white balance D65, best parameters to my taste to work on digital photography.

 

Digital development :

With M8, one and only solution today is Capture One : best profiles available for color (Jamie's profile) and B&W (C1 Pro version B&W profiles). My prefered software for Digital Photography worflow and archiving is Apple Aperture but unfortunately it needs an update to support M8 (Apple, please, make it a little bit quicker to support top performer cameras, especially when Aperture is advertized as a profi application).

 

Printing :

Waiting also for Epson 3800, or maybe Canon. Used for some time an epson 1290, but too weak now to use with today top class cameras and software.

 

Texture :

The photo of the bag was taken by night in a vitrine brightly lit by spot lights. This made leather texture come up superbly.

 

Some more photos -> here

 

Other subject :Leica M8 dynamic

I could make a phot which delivers the very high dynamic of M8 + lens

Have a look -> here

[sean_reid]

Many of you may already be familiar with this but I've been very happy with the results created using Quadtone RIP: QuadToneRIP Overview

 

David Adamson should have some great advice here as well.

 

On the road and logging off soon to be with family but Happy New Year to all!

 

Cheers,

 

Sean

[erl]

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A lot of serious and informative advice given regarding my earlier question relating to printing my M8 B/W images. Thank you all for your varied responses.

 

Clearly, I am going to have to overcome some of my personal biases about digital printing, and maybe spend some more money on more gear, maybe. One other thing I have trouble with is the 'speed', or rather lack therof, with desktop printing compared to darkroom eqivalent. There is no way I can match my production rate in the darkroom by printing on the desktop. Is it only me and my system, or do others find this as well? I reckon I can wet print apptox. 5 - 10 times faster than I can digitally.

 

Cheers,

Erl

[Machaon]

Congratulations...

I am going to surrender to The Digital M !!!

Best wishes,

R

[lovelyleica]

Here is a new picture from 1st of january.

 

Happy new year to every lucky or future lucky Leica M8 owner !!!

 

Wish you all a lot of wonderfull pictures, black and white, color, whatever you prefer, and forget about cameras or lenses comparisons. After all, the most important is the RESULT, isn't it ? I have myself a lot of different cameras (Nikon D200 is a wonderfull camera, as is Hassy, as is Canon, ...) with plus and minus for each one, but I admit that my today's favorite is the Leica M8. This is THE camera I would take without hesitation if I had to keep only one of them.

 

 

 

Leica M8 - Summicron 35mm ASPH - f5.6 - ISO160

[wilfredo]

Erl,

 

Once I have an image "processed" on the screen, I load the printer with paper and Bob's your uncle. No need to take the paper through all the motions of a wet darkroom. While the picture is printing you can even do other things. Inkjet printing, depending on the printer is much faster than darkroom printing. The size of the print is also a factor, that doesn't really change in the darkroom but on an inkjet it does, the bigger the print the longer it takes, but once it comes out of the printer, it's done. I think you will be very pleased if you pursue this and sharpen your skills. I'm really looking forward to then new Epson 3800. Making the transition over to digital wasn't easy for me, I had to teach myself everything from scratch and at first I resented it, now, I can't be happier.

 

Cheers,

Wilfredo+

Benitez-Rivera Photography

[wilfredo]

I added a comment here just in case some of you want to take a trip down memory lane. How exciting when we took our first M8 shots! I still love the camera.

[Cirrus1]

Wilfredo, Thank you, Thank you!!! I had been looking for posts regarding the M8's B&W performance as I only shoot B&W and was hoping to pick up an M8 now that the M9 is here! Care to comment of your impressions 2+ years later. What would you say to a B&W only shooter?

Have a great weekend,

John

[Mrblanchard]

I have both the M8 and the D-Lux 4. I have to say I love the Dynamic B/W mode's results from the D-Lux 4 over my M8 images. There is just something magical about that mode in the camera. My prints turn out wonderful with the old tri x film look to it. It hits the tones just right it seems.

 

Not saying my M8 can't compete, quite the contrary. But I have to do lots of photoshop to come close to the tone and look of the D-Lux 4's in camera processing, but can never seem to match it.

 

Maybe its just me lol.

[Cirrus1]

Thanks for the reply Mrblanchard, I have the Digilux 2, Dlux4, and Digilux 3. I get great "character" from the D2 and the Dlux4, each with its own look. I have not had any success with the Digilux 3 yet. I was think of selling the 3 for an M8. After years of raw conversion with canons I am now happy to use Jpeg's straight out of the camera. I am after those special qualities of which you speak. Maybe I should just stick with the D2 and Dl4. I was hoping the M8 might have more character considering its all Leica and not a "bastard child" like the other two.

[wilfredo]

Wilfredo, Thank you, Thank you!!! I had been looking for posts regarding the M8's B&W performance as I only shoot B&W and was hoping to pick up an M8 now that the M9 is here! Care to comment of your impressions 2+ years later. What would you say to a B&W only shooter?

Have a great weekend,

John

 

John,

 

With regard to the B&W IQ of the M8, I believe that the M8 still has the edge over anything on the market, including the M9. Especially when it comes to skin texture, the M8 seems to be in a genre of its own, something in-between analogue and film. I suspect this is one of the reasons the M8 will become a sought after camera on the used market. Other cameras can produce very good B&W images, but there is a difference beween very good and excellent. I often have to work harder on post-processing to get the Leica M8 look, especially when using a camera with a CMOS sensor.

 

The M8 is unique IMHO, it is in a class by itself. By all means go for it, if you love B&W photography, you will not be disappointed.

 

On another note, I am amazed at how far digital printing technology has come in the last three years.. Looking back at this thread many made the claim that a digital print could never never compare to a darkroom print but all that has changed now. Often when I go to a museum exhibition what I see are stunning giclees

[Cirrus1]

On another note, I am amazed at how far digital printing technology has come in the last three years.. Looking back at this thread many made the claim that a digital print could never never compare to a darkroom print but all that has changed now. Often when I go to a museum exhibition what I see are stunning giclees

 

 

I totally agree. What I am doing now with my Espon 3800, a $50 rip, and Ilford Gold Fibre Silk blows away anything I've done in the darkroom. I know there are darkroom printer's that create magic, but I was never one of them. The late Barry Thornton's work and writings really cemented my veiw on digital.

Thanks for the feedback on the M8.

Regards,

John

[Cirrus1]

Just a quick followup, I am scheduled to recieve a M8.2 rental kit from Keeble and Suchat Photography in November. I will have 5 days to spend with it and form an opinion. It comes with the 35 2.5 and the 75 2.5 summarit lenses.

[zonevt]

"So my question remains. How do I print my digi M8 pics. I already know how to view them digitally. Sorry to hammer the point, but it really vexes me."

 

Cheers,

Erl

 

I learned the zone system printing 4"x5" B+W negatives using the zone system a cold light enlarger and an archival process in conventional darkroom . For several years I have replaced this process with shooting digital in several formats and printing using Epson 4000 printers and Piezography K7 / Studio Print software on a variety of archival watercolor and photo papers. The inks are seven tones of black carbon inks. There are a variety of papers available today that compare to double weight glossy print surfaces of the past. I am very happy with the results. I often show print customers at shows the same image from a cold light enlarger chemical process and one from the same scanned 4"x5" in ink jet prints and they agree that they are both good prints with full tonal range and detail. Learning this digital process can be as satisfying as darkroom printing while still being different processes and great prints can be made from both.

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[wilfredo]

BTW. There is a steady flow of ongoing M8 B&W photography in the photo section of this forum for those who want to see what the M8 is still producing.

[EJohnE]

I'm still not clear from any of the above posts, whether your M8s are used in jpg/monochrome mode, or if you are all (or some) talking about conversions from colour shots.

If direct b/w from the camera, I would presume that the use of those blasted filters would be neither necessary nor desireable.

I really dislike the use of colour "just in case" if a b/w print is envisioned. (I do not have any Leica digital camera, by the way);

 

John.