Spot Focus versus Spot Exposure Metering

[Taivaanrannan Maalari]

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Hello!

 

Could someone please advise me with the technique:

Is it possible to measure the light for the exposure with the spot metering function, and then to focus elsewhere using the spot focus function (without concurrently remetering the exposure)? Or, can this be done the other way round: can I first lock the spot focus at a particular distance, and then spot meter the exposure from a different object and distance than where the focus remains (without accidentally refocusing)? If this is not possible, why are spot focus and spot metering separated?

Thanks a lot!

[tom0511]

I would say you can spot meter and lock the exposure independ from AF only if you go to manual exp mode (no AF-independend AE lock as of today)

 

Still it makes sense to seperatly be able to aqctivate them since I see times when you want spot AF but not spot EXP metering.

 

Independed locking exp and focus would be a definat thing on my firmware wishlist though.

[DRabbit]

Independed locking exp and focus would be a definat thing on my firmware wishlist though.

 

Totally agree... it's really my biggest gripe with the camera.

[leicashot]

This camera doesn't need any new features, as it is derived from the classic M cameras which were originally designed to work in manual exposure mode. Av and Tv were added due to market demand by the auto features and gimmicks designed by other manufacturers for people who are too lazy to learn photography properly.

 

Shooting in manual will cure any issues you have. See a good thread here where we discussed how to shoot in manual on the M8, which is the same as the X1.

 

http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/leica-m8-forum/129067-exposure-compensation-procedure.html

 

Good luck

[reginaldwatkins]

This camera doesn't need any new features, as it is derived from the classic M cameras which were originally designed to work in manual exposure mode. Av and Tv were added due to market demand by the auto features and gimmicks designed by other manufacturers for people who are too lazy to learn photography properly.

 

Shooting in manual will cure any issues you have. See a good thread here where we discussed how to shoot in manual on the M8, which is the same as the X1.

 

http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/leica-m8-forum/129067-exposure-compensation-procedure.html

 

Good luck

 

I understand the theory of photography. But I also understand that I can get a more accurate exposure if I let the camera pin point the shutter speed for me. There are limited choices on the shutter speed dial. I can't choose 1/1500 of a second on the dial but that might be the necessary shutter speed to get a precise exposure. AE lock I would use and benefit from in obtaining an accurate exposure.

 

I love the dials on top of the X1 and I use them. But I also understand you are limited by the choices on the dials. When the camera is set to auto you get the aperture and shutter speeds that falls between the given options on the dials.

 

Post processing can solve these issues. I prefer to have a raw file that needs little work. The more post processing the more artifacts that begin to creep in and ruin a good image.

[DRabbit]

Leicashot...

 

I also understand the technicals of photography and exposure, but sometimes I just want to work a little tiny bit quicker. To measure the light and lock the exposure using the camera's built in meter and have it separate from focus would be a welcome addition... And it IS something the M8 already does. AE lock might not be for you, so don't use it. For some of us, it's nice to have the option at times though.

[leicashot]

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Leicashot...

 

I also understand the technicals of photography and exposure, but sometimes I just want to work a little tiny bit quicker. To measure the light and lock the exposure using the camera's built in meter and have it separate from focus would be a welcome addition... And it IS something the M8 already does. AE lock might not be for you, so don't use it. For some of us, it's nice to have the option at times though.

 

If you want to be quicker than you can just learn to work faster by being one step ahead, watching as lighting changes, reading the light etc instead of relying on a computer to work it out for you. this just leads to further threads where people complain "my camera is under/over exposing". Well my saying is "cameras don't over/under expose, people do".

 

That is the job and challenge of photography. Composing an image and adjusting for exposure inaccuracies in Photoshop is not a talent, its a form of cheating when images aren't exposed correctly in-camera. Exposure is a big part of the process and if people just had the discipline to learn it then they'd probably be surprised at what they can achieve. I stand by what I said before - AE lock, Av, Tv, P AE Comp are all a marketing gimmick, taking away the photographic technique being practiced since the beginning of photography.

 

Just because you choose the shutter or aperture doesn't mean you're making the bulk of the decision. The other half not only is decided for you, but the overal exposure and look of the scene is determined without your control.....and the thought of guessing what the camera will do, then compensating for it's potential mistakes is just plain silly and backwards thinking. Those Pro's who promote cameras (which will remain nameless ) that talk about matrix metering and AE flash are being paid to do so.

 

Ok, I'll name one. Joe McNally advertises DVD's that illustrate the benefits of using auto flash and aperture priority. Any professional in the industry that goes to a commercial shoot would never use auto anything. They don't do it in movies so why would anyone do it in stills, when one can totally control the results by shooting in manual exposure?

 

If you really think about it, shooting manual makes sense, you just need the discipline to learn it, and the drive to want to control the outcome of your photography instead of leaving it to a computer to decide.

[leicashot]

I understand the theory of photography. But I also understand that I can get a more accurate exposure if I let the camera pin point the shutter speed for me.

 

Post processing can solve these issues. I prefer to have a raw file that needs little work. The more post processing the more artifacts that begin to creep in and ruin a good image.

 

Sorry but it is impossible to think that the camera will be more accurate than you...well it's possible but why would you think such a thing? You mention that post processing can solve these issues but don't like to post process as it will potential ruin a good image.

 

Manual and some expertise through learning, making mistakes and re-trying will certainly help avoid such needs to post process inaccurately exposed images. I'm not even talking about using the in-camera meter. I'm talking about using techniques mentioned in the thread linked above. Once you can learn to read light, you may just see that taking responsibility for your images = better results.

 

Photography is about getting it right out of the camera and (the photographer) making ALL the right decisions to achieve that goal. It's not about PP corrections after the fact. I've worked at many world major events where I am shooting and editors are editing my images to go directly to press before our competitors. I would never rely on the camera to make those decisions, especially relying on the editors needing to correct images for my own mistakes....and thats what they are. the mistakes made during a photograph are the full responsibility of the photographer. i don't rely on a computer to make my dinner, so why would I rely on one to take a picture?

[tom0511]

This camera doesn't need any new features, as it is derived from the classic M cameras which were originally designed to work in manual exposure mode. Av and Tv were added due to market demand by the auto features and gimmicks designed by other manufacturers for people who are too lazy to learn photography properly.

 

Shooting in manual will cure any issues you have. See a good thread here where we discussed how to shoot in manual on the M8, which is the same as the X1.

 

http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/leica-m8-forum/129067-exposure-compensation-procedure.html

 

Good luck

 

I have used a M6 for years and know how to use it but for me selecting the f-stop and letting the camera adjusting the exp time just allows to be faster and sometimes to reliably shoot scenes which one would otherwise miss.

This is not a gimmick but an important funtion for shooting anything where you want to be fast and where light is not so consistent.

As of today I can live without it since often its ok to lock distance and exposure at the same time, and for the few times it doesnt work I indeed use M exp, but haveing idependent AE lock would definatly help.

I also dont think that this one funtion would destroy the simplicity of the x1.

[Taivaanrannan Maalari]

Thanks for each reply! They are useful for me, including the thread at the M8 forum. I now know that these functions cannot be used together independently from one another. This given, I see the practical benefits for manual control of exposure.

(I also think to discern an argument for manual settings adding to a photograph’s value as the photographer’s control is something appreciated in itself. No denying that workmanship and experience are valued. That applies in most realms of life. It certainly makes a debate whether automatism should then be categorically minimised to underline the photographer’s fingerprint, provided that the consideration for practical benefits of manual control is dropped.)

[DRabbit]

Any professional in the industry that goes to a commercial shoot would never use auto anything.

 

I'm an art director that RUNS commercial shoots, and you have no idea what you are talking about. The variety of how Pros shoot and the way they go about it is incredibly diverse... and yes - gasp - some of them use "auto something".

 

If you choose to use auto-nothing, that's your choice. Don't lecture me about how I should shoot. That's a personal decision I can make on my own depending on how I want to work and the conditions. There's no downside to you if the X1 includes AE Lock, you can just choose not to use it... just like the M8. Shoot in completely manual all you want. I choose to use a combination of sometimes all manual, sometimes aperture-priority. Don't like it? Lump it.

[leicashot]

I'm an art director that RUNS commercial shoots, and you have no idea what you are talking about. The variety of how Pros shoot and the way they go about it is incredibly diverse... and yes - gasp - some of them use "auto something".

 

If you choose to use auto-nothing, that's your choice. Don't lecture me about how I should shoot. That's a personal decision I can make on my own depending on how I want to work and the conditions. There's no downside to you if the X1 includes AE Lock, you can just choose not to use it... just like the M8. Shoot in completely manual all you want. I choose to use a combination of sometimes all manual, sometimes aperture-priority. Don't like it? Lump it.

 

I think I do have an idea of what I am talking about. Just because you're an art director doesn't mean you know anything about what a photographer does technically on their shoots. I have NEVER know any commercial photographer to use any auto settings in any situation, let alone controlled environments. I am a photographer that shoots editorial, commercial, TV etc etc, and I know many others and all would laugh at the thought of shooting in automatic. You say there's no downside to shooting in AE - yes there is. The camera is thinking on your behalf. How does it know how you want to balance your exposure? How does it know where you are metering from? It doesn't measure ambient light, only reflected light. So if light is bouncing off a white t-shirt, the exposure will be different to someone wearing a black one. Do you know why the best commercial shooters use manual? because they are using a hand held meter to measure the ambient light be it natural or strobe and no AE mode can measure such technical lighting, and that is a fact - and as an art director, maybe you should know this, but its not expected that you do because you're not a professional photographer. I do this for a living every day and would never rely on a computer to make my decisions for me when clients are paying for it. I leave nothing to chance.

 

Shoot how you want to shoot. I'm not telling anyone how they 'should' shoot...only I'm giving advice passed down to me that has resulted in the successes I've had with my career. Take my advice or leave it. Obviously if you're going to get so upset it means that you know there is plenty of truth in my advice and I KNOW there is because I've lived it and it's the standard at least here in Hollywood. There's enough success here to know what works and what doesn't. Obviously I can't convince you otherwise. Hopefully this advice may sink in with others who care about learning and not just wanting to be right.

[leicashot]

Thanks for each reply! They are useful for me, including the thread at the M8 forum. I now know that these functions cannot be used together independently from one another. This given, I see the practical benefits for manual control of exposure.

(I also think to discern an argument for manual settings adding to a photograph’s value as the photographer’s control is something appreciated in itself. No denying that workmanship and experience are valued. That applies in most realms of life. It certainly makes a debate whether automatism should then be categorically minimised to underline the photographer’s fingerprint, provided that the consideration for practical benefits of manual control is dropped.)

 

Glad you found it useful. Try shooting in manual, and I guarantee that over time and with experience your results WILL improve.

[DRabbit]

I think I do have an idea of what I am talking about. Just because you're an art director doesn't mean you know anything about what a photographer does technically on their shoots...

 

If you actually think ALL pros shoot manual ALL the time, you'd be very wrong. But oh, that's right, you know everything so you can't be wrong.

 

Enough. You win. I'm just a stupid hack who has no idea how to take a photo. I bow to your greatness.

[leicashot]

If you actually think ALL pros shoot manual ALL the time, you'd be very wrong. But oh, that's right, you know everything so you can't be wrong.

 

Enough. You win. I'm just a stupid hack who has no idea how to take a photo. I bow to your greatness.

 

Thats just an immature thing to say, and I agree that not all Pros shoot in manual....cause these days everyone is a pro, right!?! At least all the great photographers I've ever worked with shoot in manual. The laws of shooting film apply to stills so could you imagine a film being shot in auto and exposure changing mid-scene? think about it, it makes sense, but it doesn't seem like you even care about making sense, only making sure you're right.

 

No need to get nasty or take anything personally, you started getting personal first, not me. I know you have credibility amongst the amateurs on the internet and good on your for that, but it doesn't mean you're right and I am wrong. You only said those sarcastic things about yourself in order to get backup responses from other forum members telling you how good you really are. Do you really need that validation, and in such a way of rudeness and disrespect?

 

If you open yourself to new possibilities you may actually learn something from this thread, but you can never learn anything from shooting in auto, because you're giving up your responsibility by cutting down the decision making - that part actually makes sense if you think about it. Sure, i could use auto on my shoots and get by, but there is always going to be a need to post process due to camera meter errors and I don't have the time and/or patience for such an exercise and neither do my clients. It's obvious Iam not able to convince you the benefits and the need to shoot in manual, at least 99% of the time. I do conceded there are rare moments where I've shot in shutter priority, on remote cameras where there are lighting changes and I can't access the camera, but I haven't done that since shooting sporting events going back a few years.

 

I think we should just agree to disagree here - its the civilized and more professional way to end this argument, is it not?

[michaelwildi]

Hello

 

I'm a pro too, and I'ld never use a X1 for a professional shooting. As a pro you have to use the best tool for the job, and the X1 doesn't fit in here.

 

Best, Michael

[leicashot]

Hello

 

I'm a pro too, and I'ld never use a X1 for a professional shooting. As a pro you have to use the best tool for the job, and the X1 doesn't fit in here.

 

Best, Michael

 

Agreed, but we're not talking about using it in professional applications, although it is capable fo professional film quality. We're talking about manual VS auto in exposure.

[DRabbit]

Thats just an immature thing to say, and I agree that not all Pros shoot in manual....cause these days everyone is a pro, right!?! At least all the great photographers I've ever worked with shoot in manual. The laws of shooting film apply to stills so could you imagine a film being shot in auto and exposure changing mid-scene? think about it, it makes sense, but it doesn't seem like you even care about making sense, only making sure you're right.

 

No need to get nasty or take anything personally, you started getting personal first, not me. I know you have credibility amongst the amateurs on the internet and good on your for that, but it doesn't mean you're right and I am wrong. You only said those sarcastic things about yourself in order to get backup responses from other forum members telling you how good you really are. Do you really need that validation, and in such a way of rudeness and disrespect?

 

If you open yourself to new possibilities you may actually learn something from this thread, but you can never learn anything from shooting in auto, because you're giving up your responsibility by cutting down the decision making - that part actually makes sense if you think about it. Sure, i could use auto on my shoots and get by, but there is always going to be a need to post process due to camera meter errors and I don't have the time and/or patience for such an exercise and neither do my clients. It's obvious Iam not able to convince you the benefits and the need to shoot in manual, at least 99% of the time. I do conceded there are rare moments where I've shot in shutter priority, on remote cameras where there are lighting changes and I can't access the camera, but I haven't done that since shooting sporting events going back a few years.

 

I think we should just agree to disagree here - its the civilized and more professional way to end this argument, is it not?

 

Dude, really, I said you were right. Let it go.

I don't need backup from anyone. I just don't need to be lectured because I don't shoot all manual 100% of the time. My first reply to you was simply "I also understand the technicals of photography and exposure, but sometimes I just want to work a little tiny bit quicker. To measure the light and lock the exposure using the camera's built in meter and have it separate from focus would be a welcome addition... And it IS something the M8 already does. AE lock might not be for you, so don't use it. For some of us, it's nice to have the option at times though." - nothing at all nasty about it.

 

From there you decided to tell me how all pros shoot manually all the time. No need. Doesn't matter does it? Whether you're right or not, who cares? At the end of the day I'm not the ONLY person who wishes the X1 has AE Lock, which is what this thread is about. There are absolutely merits to learning to shoot manual only (and are we talking sunny 16 or separate light-meter or built-in meter assisted?). EVERYONE should learn the technicals of photography if they want to get better at it. However, sometime it's nice to have other options to work a little faster or with a little less thinking or for whatever reason.

 

Don't agree? Fine. Just don't lecture me about what the pros do. If all pros shot all manual all the time, than camera manufacturers wouldn't be including the features they do in the cameras they make. Most, probably all pro-level cameras, and yes, even the M8, M9 and S2, have AE Lock. No reason the X1 can't have it too.

[leicashot]

Dude, really, I said you were right. Let it go.

I don't need backup from anyone. I just don't need to be lectured because I don't shoot all manual 100% of the time. My first reply to you was simply "I also understand the technicals of photography and exposure, but sometimes I just want to work a little tiny bit quicker. To measure the light and lock the exposure using the camera's built in meter and have it separate from focus would be a welcome addition... And it IS something the M8 already does. AE lock might not be for you, so don't use it. For some of us, it's nice to have the option at times though." - nothing at all nasty about it.

 

From there you decided to tell me how all pros shoot manually all the time. No need. Doesn't matter does it? Whether you're right or not, who cares? At the end of the day I'm not the ONLY person who wishes the X1 has AE Lock, which is what this thread is about. There are absolutely merits to learning to shoot manual only (and are we talking sunny 16 or separate light-meter or built-in meter assisted?). EVERYONE should learn the technicals of photography if they want to get better at it. However, sometime it's nice to have other options to work a little faster or with a little less thinking or for whatever reason.

 

Don't agree? Fine. Just don't lecture me about what the pros do. If all pros shot all manual all the time, than camera manufacturers wouldn't be including the features they do in the cameras they make. Most, probably all pro-level cameras, and yes, even the M8, M9 and S2, have AE Lock. No reason the X1 can't have it too.

 

Firstly, I live in LA, but I am no 'dude'. Secondly, manufacturers include AE for amateurs mainly, or pros that feel they need it, mainly because the amateur market for purchasing pro bodies is greater than the pro market purchasing pro bodies. It's only a lecture if you see it that way. If you didn't take it personally it wouldn't feel like a lecture. Either way the advice I have given is the best advice I was ever given and has paid off for me, so I don't see it hurting anyone else should they wish to take on the challenge of being a better photographer.

 

All the best to you regardless of how you expose, sincerely.

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[reginaldwatkins]

Sorry but it is impossible to think that the camera will be more accurate than you...well it's possible but why would you think such a thing? You mention that post processing can solve these issues but don't like to post process as it will potential ruin a good image.

 

Manual and some expertise through learning, making mistakes and re-trying will certainly help avoid such needs to post process inaccurately exposed images. I'm not even talking about using the in-camera meter. I'm talking about using techniques mentioned in the thread linked above. Once you can learn to read light, you may just see that taking responsibility for your images = better results.

 

Photography is about getting it right out of the camera and (the photographer) making ALL the right decisions to achieve that goal. It's not about PP corrections after the fact. I've worked at many world major events where I am shooting and editors are editing my images to go directly to press before our competitors. I would never rely on the camera to make those decisions, especially relying on the editors needing to correct images for my own mistakes....and thats what they are. the mistakes made during a photograph are the full responsibility of the photographer. i don't rely on a computer to make my dinner, so why would I rely on one to take a picture?

 

My new goal in life is to be a walking light meter such as yourself. I bow to your greatness.