Sony NEX 5 vs Leica x1

[cpclee]

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I don't think I fully understand why people snub the X1 all the time. It is a very lovely/productive camera if you actually have a chance to live with it. It's meant to be a digital incarnation of the Minilux/CM in the form factor of the original Ur-Leica , and to that end Leica did an admirable job. The camera really should be compared to lush compacts like Contax T3, Hexar AF, Ricoh GR1/D, etc. rather than interchangeable lens cameras like (d)SLRs, Leica M/CL, etc. Viewed in that light, this is an extremely capable camera.

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[Ecaton]

Here is a shot comparing the M8 to the NEX 5. The M* shot was at ISO 160 and the NEX shot was at ISO 400. Also, the Leica shot used a real high quality Leica lens. (Obviously not taken at the same time (I don't have the M8 any longer) and the lighting was different. Leica was set to sharpening 75 and the NEX to sharpening 0. Both were auto white balanced.

 

Don't know whether it's my screen or early morning eyesight. But had my M8 ever produced such a dull, flat, unsharp shot with no plane of focus identifiable whatsoever, I had sent it to Solms in January 2007 with a one way ticket around its neck.

 

I have no m adapter yet, but a Nex 5 with kit zoom since a few days. I like it, it's fun, a couple of very nice features, the sensor seems promising, quite fast af, 7fps (!), etc etc. The lens stinks. The UI, a lot has been written about it, but I believe it can grow on the user. The overall IQ is not at the X1 level and m lenses are best used on m-mount bodies. And whilst the X1 gives me the feel of using a serious photographic tool, the Nex has more of a gadgetry feel. Which can be enjoyable as well.

[phancj]

I don't think I fully understand why people snub the X1 all the time. It is a very lovely/productive camera if you actually have a chance to live with it. It's meant to be a digital incarnation of the Minilux/CM in the form factor of the original Ur-Leica , and to that end Leica did an admirable job. The camera really should be compared to lush compacts like Contax T3, Hexar AF, Ricoh GR1/D, etc. rather than interchangeable lens cameras like (d)SLRs, Leica M/CL, etc. Viewed in that light, this is an extremely capable camera.

 

I believe most of the people who snub the X1 have not really owned/used it and are put off by its price. I also felt it a tad expensive when I bought it but was intrigued by its size, sensor and appearance. Having took my first few shots with it, I really felt it well worth the price and I stopped bringing my dslr in favor of it henceforth. I am also seriously considering buying a M9, or better still, if a new digital leica with interchangeable lens comes out as rumored (photokina 2010).

 

I seriously think the M9 is very competitively priced vs the best Nikon and Canon, have better lenses to use and is so tiny, Leica is really trying to be competitive in pricing given its small volume and higher cost due to its lack of economy of scale. So though expensive, the M9 and the X1 is well worth the premium compared to leica's competitors.

[phancj]

Don't know whether it's my screen or early morning eyesight. But had my M8 ever produced such a dull, flat, unsharp shot with no plane of focus identifiable whatsoever, I had sent it to Solms in January 2007 with a one way ticket around its neck.

 

I have no m adapter yet, but a Nex 5 with kit zoom since a few days. I like it, it's fun, a couple of very nice features, the sensor seems promising, quite fast af, 7fps (!), etc etc. The lens stinks. The UI, a lot has been written about it, but I believe it can grow on the user. The overall IQ is not at the X1 level and m lenses are best used on m-mount bodies. And whilst the X1 gives me the feel of using a serious photographic tool, the Nex has more of a gadgetry feel. Which can be enjoyable as well.

 

I agree with you completely. The Nex has lots of potential but it is not near the X1 in image quality. But the panorama, HDR, and other gizmos does appeal to the "James Bond" streak in some of us and can be fun... :-)

[jsrockit]

I don't think I fully understand why people snub the X1 all the time. It is a very lovely/productive camera if you actually have a chance to live with it. It's meant to be a digital incarnation of the Minilux/CM in the form factor of the original Ur-Leica , and to that end Leica did an admirable job. The camera really should be compared to lush compacts like Contax T3, Hexar AF, Ricoh GR1/D, etc. rather than interchangeable lens cameras like (d)SLRs, Leica M/CL, etc. Viewed in that light, this is an extremely capable camera.

 

Well, the problem is that it costs twice as much as the most expensive of the cameras listed. People just cannot get around that fact it seems. I love the X1, but can completely understand why some don't.

[phancj]

Well, the problem is that it costs twice as much as the most expensive of the cameras listed. People just cannot get around that fact it seems. I love the X1, but can completely understand why some don't.

 

If you perceive a product overpriced, just don't buy it. Don't see the need to snub it. In the case of the X1, it is actually class leading. Try going to the Vertu boutique...wanted to buy my wife a nice phone, went to the boutique and believe me, the phones had beautiful luscious materials with the most gorgeous workmanship but the screen was low res, electronics were ancient, functions were lacking, camera was the worst compared to even Nokia's cheapest phones. Now we are talking about just branding and look and feel and exterior materials , with absolutely no regard to the workings and functions of the phone. In the case of the X1, it has the largest sensor, best lens, nice workmanship, good design, premium brand, wonder how it gets slammed when I do not see much online slamming of Vertu phones. So I cannot understand, or perhaps photographers tend to be more difficult??!!

 

I think the X1 is competent and pricey, not overpriced.

[jsrockit]

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If you perceive a product overpriced, just don't buy it. Don't see the need to snub it....

 

phancj... I own the X1 and was one of the first to have one. Like I said, I love it. However, it will always be a target because of its price. I just don't get why people come to complain about something they don't own. If I'm not interested in something, I simply forget about it. That leads me to believe price is what makes people upset.

 

So I cannot understand, or perhaps photographers tend to be more difficult??!!

I think the X1 is competent and pricey, not overpriced.

 

Well, yes...a camera is a tool and photographers come in many forms. What works for me might not work for you, etc.

 

As much as I like the X1... it is over-priced. There is no denying that.

[Danielsan]

Here is a shot comparing the M8 to the NEX 5

that first deer isnt even the same as in the 2nd picture, not a good way to compare.

 

The NX5 is cheaper but the pictured with its Kit Lens arent good at all and if u put a good lens on it with the adapter it will loose AF and most important it gets nearly as clumsy as a DSLR, so the camera has no point for me. The X1 produce decent IQ with the size of a pocket cam and that was number one reason to buy it cause my Canon 450D was big and heavy and i never used it after some time.

 

So i wouldnt say the X1 is overpriced, the NEX5 is also expensive but with a cheaper lens, maybe with the Leica lens it probably costs 1200Euro as well and u dont have the great leica looks as well.

 

What works for me might not work for you

exactly, i dont make pictures of planes or birds, i just want a small high quality camera with decent IQ for the streets and for vacation...

[Dan States]

If you perceive a product overpriced, just don't buy it. Don't see the need to snub it. In the case of the X1, it is actually class leading. Try going to the Vertu boutique...wanted to buy my wife a nice phone, went to the boutique and believe me, the phones had beautiful luscious materials with the most gorgeous workmanship but the screen was low res, electronics were ancient, functions were lacking, camera was the worst compared to even Nokia's cheapest phones. Now we are talking about just branding and look and feel and exterior materials , with absolutely no regard to the workings and functions of the phone. In the case of the X1, it has the largest sensor, best lens, nice workmanship, good design, premium brand, wonder how it gets slammed when I do not see much online slamming of Vertu phones. So I cannot understand, or perhaps photographers tend to be more difficult??!!

 

I think the X1 is competent and pricey, not overpriced.

 

To paraphrase a Kris Kristofferson song: It's good to know that everybody's so concerned about my wallet....

 

Expensive brands from boutique makers will always be....uh, expensive. If you don't like it don't buy one and don't expend too much energy telling other people that they are idiots for their choice.

 

I suppose we could all be driving Trabants if all we needed was value and utility.

 

 

I should sign up for food forums and complain about stupid people eating gourmet food when they could get even more calories from a Big Mac.

[phancj]

To paraphrase a Kris Kristofferson song: It's good to know that everybody's so concerned about my wallet....

 

Expensive brands from boutique makers will always be....uh, expensive. If you don't like it don't buy one and don't expend too much energy telling other people that they are idiots for their choice.

 

I suppose we could all be driving Trabants if all we needed was value and utility.

 

 

I should sign up for food forums and complain about stupid people eating gourmet food when they could get even more calories from a Big Mac.

 

Haha...well put, especially the burger part. :-)

 

Thought this should be a forum where we can share pictures and learn from one another's experiences, so we can all take even better photos with this little gem we invested in. Initially I put up with those detractors who slam the camera but right now, so many months later, these same people just dun quit! Truth is these people probably will never buy the X1, and probably aren't too happy with their own cameras either, so delight in spoiling others' enjoyment. We should all focus on the X1 and share nice photos and camera operation tips, and butt these nuisances from this site henceforth. haha!

[RichardM8]

I should sign up for food forums and complain about stupid people eating gourmet food when they could get even more calories from a Big Mac.

 

Heheheh...

 

Leica prices and from the X1 in particular will always be on the favorite bashing list of a lot of people. Mostly non Leica owners btw. I posted the text below in another thread too.

 

To give this is little more context I looked up the annual reports from Leica and Canon.

 

The 2009 turnover from Leica (total, not only cameras) was only $158 million. After a 3 million loss in 2008 they made a profit between 5 - 6 million in 2009 so things are finally heading the right way again for Leica. This is a small - tiny is a better word - company in this marketplace.

 

By comparison Canons' consumer/camera division had a 14 billion + turnover in 2009. If my math is correct, this Canon division alone is nearly 100 x bigger than Leica. It's not very hard to get the economy of scale picture here imo.

 

 

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I think that Leica charging too high prices and fat premiums for their name/status is highly exaggerated. But it's a juicy story along the lines of 'the great scam' that people always seem to like and that finds a lot of willing ears.

 

The production cost of an X1 is much higher than from comparable cameras from the big Japanese co's. Leica is a small company that buys and produces parts at much lower numbers, thus higher cost. Production is in small numbers too with quite some handwork involved, thus (much) higher cost. R&D, production and profit has be earned back selling - again - much lower numbers. The math is simple, Leica must price their cameras higher in order to stay in business. Not to make fat profits. But then, this isn't juicy bar talk.

 

I think Canon makes more margin on every single G11 or Rebel than Leica does on the X1.

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Richard.

[phancj]

Heheheh...

 

Leica prices and from the X1 in particular will always be on the favorite bashing list of a lot of people. Mostly non Leica owners btw. I posted the text below in another thread too.

 

To give this is little more context I looked up the annual reports from Leica and Canon.

 

The 2009 turnover from Leica (total, not only cameras) was only $158 million. After a 3 million loss in 2008 they made a profit between 5 - 6 million in 2009 so things are finally heading the right way again for Leica. This is a small - tiny is a better word - company in this marketplace.

 

By comparison Canons' consumer/camera division had a 14 billion + turnover in 2009. If my math is correct, this Canon division alone is nearly 100 x bigger than Leica. It's not very hard to get the economy of scale picture here imo.

 

 

_____________________________

 

I think that Leica charging too high prices and fat premiums for their name/status is highly exaggerated. But it's a juicy story along the lines of 'the great scam' that people always seem to like and that finds a lot of willing ears.

 

The production cost of an X1 is much higher than from comparable cameras from the big Japanese co's. Leica is a small company that buys and produces parts at much lower numbers, thus higher cost. Production is in small numbers too with quite some handwork involved, thus (much) higher cost. R&D, production and profit has be earned back selling - again - much lower numbers. The math is simple, Leica must price their cameras higher in order to stay in business. Not to make fat profits. But then, this isn't juicy bar talk.

 

I think Canon makes more margin on every single G11 or Rebel than Leica does on the X1.

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Richard.

 

Agreed.

 

But what is strange is that shouldnt these detractors go to the Nex5 forum (the appropriate place) to say their piece? And maybe let the Nex 5 owners know that sony lenses suck for it so better buy Leica lenses??!!

 

So we can all move along and enjoy the camera even more with our shared ideas, tips, etc.

 

I am thinking that this forum is moving in the wrong direction with these people posting irrelevant stuff.

[jsrockit]

Agreed.

 

But what is strange is that shouldnt these detractors go to the Nex5 forum (the appropriate place) to say their piece? And maybe let the Nex 5 owners know that sony lenses suck for it so better buy Leica lenses??!!

 

They probably do...

 

I am thinking that this forum is moving in the wrong direction with these people posting irrelevant stuff.

 

Yes, this is true. However, there are too many owners here who only offer that the X1 has amazing IQ is such a small package... or the dials don't have enough resistence or the AF is too slow.

 

Perhaps it is time to have one of those contests they have for the barnacks for the X1? That way we can all concentrate on making a great photo with the X1 and maybe learn from each other?

[phancj]

They probably do...

 

 

 

Yes, this is true. However, there are too many owners here who only offer that the X1 has amazing IQ is such a small package... or the dials don't have enough resistence or the AF is too slow.

 

Perhaps it is time to have one of those contests they have for the barnacks for the X1? That way we can all concentrate on making a great photo with the X1 and maybe learn from each other?

 

Maybe thats it! Think posting of more photos will be great.

[jsrockit]

Maybe thats it! Think posting of more photos will be great.

 

But in a more formal and controlled manner than we do now...

[phancj]

But in a more formal and controlled manner than we do now...

 

How do we do it in a formal manner? I thought forums are generally informal, unless you are thinking of an actual contest??!!

[Guest badbob]

How do we do it in a formal manner? I thought forums are generally informal, unless you are thinking of an actual contest??!!

 

Let's hope they stay the way they are now - not "steered" by any one person's or committee's best intentions or personal agenda.

[nippa]

Perhaps I'm wrong but I've always thought that photos were discouraged within the camera sections and moved eleswhere.

Pity really as I'd like to see X1 images here routinely much as they do on dpreview.

 

Maybe the mods can clarify the position.

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Hallo,

Look here: Interesting Leica gear

[h00ligan]

It would be nice to see more images in the actual forum from the equipment, but I guess that's what flickr groups are for.

[JanCderidder]

You know the Sony's Panasonics or Oly's , might be good, probably are very good but with the X1 I get results on which I can depend upon, you learn the manner in which the camera functions and are able to rely on that, even with our (wifes) D300 i get different result under similar conditions, and yes these are easy to photoshop but this is not what I want to spend my time with I want to take an image and process it directly without any post-processing and this is what the X1 does for me.

 

An example being; I own a British racing green Jaguar MkII, original colour and never has any DSLR been able to catch the exact colour ... the X1 has, and yes it's a small matter to recompose the image etc. etc. but still thats why I love the X1