Sony NEX 5 vs Leica x1

[h00ligan]

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Here's a flower shot from a non flower guy - on the x1 / jpg out @ 1/100 - 2.8 - 100 with crop. 2.8. made a mistake on that, too shallow, but just posting it for an example. Again I'm not a flower guy at all, just posting it to add to the debate!

 

Hopefully the color is right this time as to what i see on my screen in lightroom, checked the exports, if there's a difference - it's due to the forum software somehow

 

Alright, let me try linking in from flickr - this is really odd - maybe it's my browser. It's not my browser, how odd - when attaching it destroys color.. here are inserts from flickr, hoping that doesn't do the same! (it didn't sorry for the size of the crop - have to run out for now!)

 

 

[barjohn]

I thought I was the only one with that problem. The colors shown on the uploaded version seem further compressed than what I see on my color calibrated monitor. Oh well. My shot was at 41mm (61.5mm equivalent) so the depth of field appears shallower since I was only a few inches from the flower. P.S. I'm not a flower guy either. I do them for my wife.

[h00ligan]

well heads up, uploading to flickr and linking solved the issue! Strange 'feature'

[RichardM8]

From what I've seen - in this thread too - the NEX5 images don't look that good to me.

 

 

About color representation; a lot of problems come from the use of web browsers that are not color aware. Like Explorer (or the Windows file viewer for that matter). They ignore the color tags from images. Browsers like Apples' Safari and FireFox for Windows are color aware. With FFox you'll have to switch it on as it's off by default. Big, BIG difference...

 

Richard.

[stevem7]

I have a NEX-3, NEX-5, E-PL1, E-P2 and X1 here with me now and after shooting them all, I like a little bit of each one

 

The best of the bunch for IQ and NOISE is the X1. Also, AWB is better on the X1. I am not a fan of the menu system of the NEX series. It is awful for those who like control. I see the NEX as a competitor to the m4/3 cameras but still, the best "small" camera for photographers who like control while keeping it as simple as possible is the X1. No doubt.

 

The NEX is tiny with big lenses, menu system is awful, lenses have pretty bad distortion, I can go on and on...

 

The m4/3 cams are pretty good. The GF1 rocks, the E-P2 rocks and the E-PL1 rocks. They may not give APS-C IQ, but they are close and the video of the E-P2 is superb.

 

Overall, for IQ, the X1 is tough to beat if you can live with its slow AF and fixed lens.

 

My kit will now include the X1, E-P2 and M9. I'm passing on the NEX cameras until I see what later versions bring to the table.

[phancj]

I have a NEX-3, NEX-5, E-PL1, E-P2 and X1 here with me now and after shooting them all, I like a little bit of each one

 

The best of the bunch for IQ and NOISE is the X1. Also, AWB is better on the X1. I am not a fan of the menu system of the NEX series. It is awful for those who like control. I see the NEX as a competitor to the m4/3 cameras but still, the best "small" camera for photographers who like control while keeping it as simple as possible is the X1. No doubt.

 

The NEX is tiny with big lenses, menu system is awful, lenses have pretty bad distortion, I can go on and on...

 

The m4/3 cams are pretty good. The GF1 rocks, the E-P2 rocks and the E-PL1 rocks. They may not give APS-C IQ, but they are close and the video of the E-P2 is superb.

 

Overall, for IQ, the X1 is tough to beat if you can live with its slow AF and fixed lens.

 

My kit will now include the X1, E-P2 and M9. I'm passing on the NEX cameras until I see what later versions bring to the table.

 

Hey Steve,

 

Absolutely love your reviews, very informative.

 

One quick question: Why is it that not a lot of people has comments or complaints on how "heavy" the Nex5 shutter is, the first thing I noticed was how heavy the shutter "kicks" the camera, like something fell inside. It is not noisy, but the vibration I feel is pretty great, comparable or worse than perhaps my D300.

 

Or did I try a defective set??

 

Cheers,

CJ

[h00ligan]

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Thanks for your input Steve. Would you be able to post a couple (not asking for many) direct comparisons between the nex, x1, gf1 for this thread/the site? really just a low iso, and high iso. Sorry I know it's a pain but it would be helpful to directly compare. I appreciate the recent mail too btw. Very helpful. The Nex 7 (rumoured) seems to be more in line, but sony seems to have done a 'just enough to get by' approach on the current nex models though the price reflects.

 

Richard, I was using Firefox which is why I was confused as to the forum behaviour. It's definitely a bug in the attachment feature of vBulletin.

 

Cheers!

 

sidenote - I would really like to know what the hell is happening with the x1 raw files. The color representation as well as color/brightness/contrast is a lot better on the jpgs compared to starting from raw, but obviously one doesn't wish to always use them due to headroom for post. The x1 raw files start out looking awful and overexposed in lightroom compared to the jpgs... there's another thread on this but it went nowhere... and I think the jpgs are great - so long as one gets everything right.

[barjohn]

While I enjoy Steve's reviews, I think his bias toward Leica is influencing his opinion. First, there is no decent raw conversion yet available for the NEX raw files and that limits the ability to do a decent comparison for IQ. The comments about the menu system also reflect a significant bias that isn't warranted for most everyday use and he downplays the slow AF, shutter lag and overall slow performance of the X1 that does impact your everyday use. I have owned the GF-1 and the EP-1 and while both are very good cameras they aren't even close to the NEX in IQ and that is just looking at JPGs. None of the aforementioned cameras has the DR of the NEX. Is it the end all be all? No; but it is a lot better than Steve suggests and its video mode beats just about everything I have seen in APS-C.

 

As for shutter vibration, I don't find it to be any worse than any other FP camera including the M8 I previously owned. I can regularly shoot at 1/8 or 1/10 second and obtain sharp images which would not be possible if shutter vibration was an issue.

[h00ligan]

Steve I just saw today's post - looks like you were already one step ahead. Steve mentioned the raw conversion issues in the informal comparison.

 

I don't particularly feel Steve's preference for Leica = bias. For example with the x1 vs pen comparison before, they kept the pen... and he basically said (paraphrasing here Steve, forgive me) that the x1 had better iq, but the pen was faster, very close, cost a lot less, and was great bang for the buck.

 

I think that's pretty spot on.

 

Here's part one of his comparison Crazy Comparison! Sony NEX-3 vs Olympus E-P2 vs Leica X1 (JPEGS) Pt.1 | STEVE HUFF PHOTOS

 

p.s. - that was a weird trackback steve!

[stevem7]

Hey Steve,

 

Absolutely love your reviews, very informative.

 

One quick question: Why is it that not a lot of people has comments or complaints on how "heavy" the Nex5 shutter is, the first thing I noticed was how heavy the shutter "kicks" the camera, like something fell inside. It is not noisy, but the vibration I feel is pretty great, comparable or worse than perhaps my D300.

 

Or did I try a defective set??

 

Cheers,

CJ

 

Yes, the NEX cameras have a loud and as you say "heavy" shutter. Louder and clunkier than the M4/3 cameras.

[stevem7]

While I enjoy Steve's reviews, I think his bias toward Leica is influencing his opinion. First, there is no decent raw conversion yet available for the NEX raw files and that limits the ability to do a decent comparison for IQ. The comments about the menu system also reflect a significant bias that isn't warranted for most everyday use and he downplays the slow AF, shutter lag and overall slow performance of the X1 that does impact your everyday use. I have owned the GF-1 and the EP-1 and while both are very good cameras they aren't even close to the NEX in IQ and that is just looking at JPGs. None of the aforementioned cameras has the DR of the NEX. Is it the end all be all? No; but it is a lot better than Steve suggests and its video mode beats just about everything I have seen in APS-C.

 

As for shutter vibration, I don't find it to be any worse than any other FP camera including the M8 I previously owned. I can regularly shoot at 1/8 or 1/10 second and obtain sharp images which would not be possible if shutter vibration was an issue.

 

Hey barjohn, thanks for the comments. I shoot Leica because it is consistently the camera brand that gives me the best results. It's not a bias, but a love for these cameras! After trying everything else, nothing really compares for ME, and that is just my opinion.

 

As for the NEX cameras giving better IQ than the M4/3 cameras, yea, it has the potential to, but not with the lenses that are out for it now. Too much distortion really, and the user experience of the E-P2 vs NEX 3/5 easily goes to the E-P2.

 

Every sample I have seen from the NEX cameras have, again, IMO, been somewhat dull, soft and well, sort of "blahhh". Good IQ, but not "WOW" IQ.

 

The NEX series has potential, but the 3 and 5, I just do not see anything there that would make me switch from an E-P1/E-P2, even the higher ISO. The video mode...don't get me started! You can not even control the aperture as the camera takes over and I just did a side by side video with the E-P2 using the 17 and the E-P2 video was clearer, smoother and with better color and it let me choose my aperture. I may post a video comparison Monday.

 

If there is a NEX 7 with controls on the body, aperture priority video, and a couple of better primes I would be all over it. I guess we shall wait and see but the thought of a NEX 7 with dials and knobs...now we are talking.

 

I just posted a comparison of the NEX 3, X1 and E-P2. I kept it fair and showed out of camera JPEGS from all, so no RAW's just yet. This was a low ISO, daylight comparison and all three did great with the Sony 16 showing the most distortion.

[stevem7]

Steve I just saw today's post - looks like you were already one step ahead. Steve mentioned the raw conversion issues in the informal comparison.

 

I don't particularly feel Steve's preference for Leica = bias. For example with the x1 vs pen comparison before, they kept the pen... and he basically said (paraphrasing here Steve, forgive me) that the x1 had better iq, but the pen was faster, very close, cost a lot less, and was great bang for the buck.

 

I think that's pretty spot on.

 

Here's part one of his comparison Crazy Comparison! Sony NEX-3 vs Olympus E-P2 vs Leica X1 (JPEGS) Pt.1 | STEVE HUFF PHOTOS

 

p.s. - that was a weird trackback steve!

 

Thanks!

[AlanG]

Did you try to take advantage of some of the Nex's unique features - HDR, sweep panorama, twilight mode, etc?

 

I saw some pretty incredible HDR shots from the Nex on DPReview - directly into the sun without flare.

 

Wow...NEX HDR shots, check these out :-) [Page 1]: Sony Alpha Talk Forum: Digital Photography Review

 

I think for a compact travel camera, some of these features puts the Nex way ahead of the rest for me. (I haven't bought one yet.) And I expect the final output quality available from raw (including lens distortion) will improve once DXO has support for it.

[phancj]

Did you try to take advantage of some of the Nex's unique features - HDR, sweep panorama, twilight mode, etc?

 

I saw some pretty incredible HDR shots from the Nex on DPReview - directly into the sun without flare.

 

Wow...NEX HDR shots, check these out :-) [Page 1]: Sony Alpha Talk Forum: Digital Photography Review

 

I think for a compact travel camera, some of these features puts the Nex way ahead of the rest for me. (I haven't bought one yet.) And I expect the final output quality available from raw (including lens distortion) will improve once DXO has support for it.

 

hey Alan,

 

Truth of the mater is, it really boils down to what one finds important in a camera.

 

For me, the X1 represents the best coz it is tiny, simple to use, no frustrating menus, and give excellent image quality out of the box. This represents to me the perfect travel camera (at this moment with whatever is available out there).

 

I have absolutely no interest in video, HDR, panorama, etc,etc coz these can be more precisely done in software should I choose to but these are not of relevance to me. Call me old fashion (maybe thats why I like Leica) but for me a camera has to be the best in taking images, I will buy the best for what it does, so I have iPods for listening to music (got a few of them), but I use another smartphone because I do not think the iPhone is a competent phone (no bluetooth file transfer, too proprietary, etc,etc) although I use exclusively Macs.

 

My suggestion is to try both the X1 and the Nex (and for a while). I tried the Nex and saved the images in my own SD card (thankfully no proprietary memory stick this time) and think that it is better than point and shoot, but nowhere near the image quality of the X1 (with the sony prime pancake lens). The zoom I tried too and wasn't impressed (on another separate occasion). My decision is based simply on image quality alone and that is where the X1 excels.

 

If in-camera panorama, fancy modes, etc, etc is important to you, then the Sony nex is ideal for you. For a lot of us, we do not want to be bogged down by too many menus and fancy modes but rather focus on getting the best image possible, enjoying photography like it was enjoyed by the old time greats who without IS or VR or AFS or what have you nevertheless produced the most gorgeous photos ever.

[AlanG]

... we do not want to be bogged down by too many menus and fancy modes but rather focus on getting the best image possible, enjoying photography like it was enjoyed by the old time greats who without IS or VR or AFS or what have you nevertheless produced the most gorgeous photos ever.

 

I see these types of cameras as useful primarily for their convenience. Otherwise, I'd use a larger camera, many lenses, and a lot of lighting gear... as I do for jobs. Many old time greats used 8x10 view cameras on heavy tripods. The fact that I can very easily get such good quality under a variety of circumstances with such a small camera is very appealing.

 

Separately, shooting images for HDR hand held with other cameras will be pretty difficult. Did you look at the link to the Nex HDR images above. I don't see how you could reliably achieve that hand held with any other camera. And the lack of lens flare is impressive. (Not many camera comparisons use shots into the sun.)

 

And I have been stitching panoramas via Autopano for many years and could appreciate the convenience of in camera panoramas for many situations... as some of these are simply documentary images from my vacations and may not be worth major post processing efforts. The twilight and anti motion systems in the Nex that shoot several images and extract data to form one image also looks useful. I think more and more cameras will have features such as these as they often do improve the overall quality of the image.

 

It is having the opportunity to utilize these features that is most appealing to me about the Nex

[h00ligan]

Do you mean do it in camera?

[phancj]

I see these types of cameras as useful primarily for their convenience. Otherwise, I'd use a larger camera, many lenses, and a lot of lighting gear... as I do for jobs. Many old time greats used 8x10 view cameras on heavy tripods. The fact that I can very easily get such good quality under a variety of circumstances with such a small camera is very appealing.

 

Separately, shooting images for HDR hand held with other cameras will be pretty difficult. Did you look at the link to the Nex HDR images above. I don't see how you could reliably achieve that hand held with any other camera. And the lack of lens flare is impressive. (Not many camera comparisons use shots into the sun.)

 

And I have been stitching panoramas via Autopano for many years and could appreciate the convenience of in camera panoramas for many situations... as some of these are simply documentary images from my vacations and may not be worth major post processing efforts. The twilight and anti motion systems in the Nex that shoot several images and extract data to form one image also looks useful. I think more and more cameras will have features such as these as they often do improve the overall quality of the image.

 

It is having the opportunity to utilize these features that is most appealing to me about the Nex

 

Then the Nex5 is the camera for you, coz I seriously do not care for panorama stitching, HDR compositing, etc, etc. I want the simplest camera with ONLY the controls and stuff I will use. Even for my D300 which I have used for work since it was launched I have not read the x00 page manual and use any of the features other than the basic controls. I believe there are many like me, thats the point I was trying to make. The X1 is fun to use and really simple, if they have a M9 that can autofocus (I got bad eyesight now), I will buy it as I want the simplest camera with the best image quality in the smallest package possible. Pure and simple.

 

The Nex5 at this moment with whatever lenses available cannot do it for me, not to mention heavy shutter. Whatever features that are irrelevant to me that they pack into the tiny thing serves only to frustrate me. Perhaps that is why many find the menus infuriating, just too many things many do not use. And the inability to use carl zeiss lenses with AF marks the final nail on the coffin.

 

Like I said, if you try the X1 , I mean really try instead of reading from the net, you will see the beauty of its simplicity and the nice pictures it takes, which I believe to be class leading. of course the price is an issue for many, perhaps thats why it gets slammed more than any other camera.

[Guest badbob]

....there is no decent raw conversion yet available for the NEX raw files and that limits the ability to do a decent comparison for IQ.

 

Then there's the X1. I've seen postings that swear the RAW files are worse than the JPEG's, and other postings that say the opposite. Hopefully when someone posts comparisons they will use the best RAW conversion method available.

[jsrockit]

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Hallo,

Look here: Interesting Leica gear

[Danielsan]

here's no doubt that the sensor in the NEX is superior to 4/3 and I dare say the X1's

 

Well, both have nearly similar sensor size but the X1 is smaller and the lens of it is perfectly tuned to the sensor while the NEX5 need to work with different lenses. THe NEX5 has 14 MP on the same sensor size and the X1 12. I go for the X1, tomorrow i set my order, the X1 is everything i need in one small package with lens build around the sensor, dont need interchangable lenses, u dont have the problem with dust either and finally the X1 looks better. I would bet the X1 is better in picture quality too.