Sony NEX 5 vs Leica x1

[Danielsan]

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So what so u advice ppl to do John? Not to buy x1 and therefore nex5?

What if i want the best iq in a small form factor? I have to buy x1 then!

[barjohn]

....blancpain is owned by the swatch group

 

Maybe you should check on who owns Leica Camera. Also, Blanc Pain produced fine quality watches even when they weren't owned by Swatch. Maybe better some might argue.

[barjohn]

So what so u advice ppl to do John? Not to buy x1 and therefore nex5?

What if i want the best iq in a small form factor? I have to buy x1 then!

 

I would advise you to buy whatever you want. That doesn't mean you can't let Leica know of your dissatisfaction. I don't happen to think the IQ is the best but that really is up to each to judge for themselves, I just haven't seen it. Granted, the only real comparison I have seen are Steve Huff's images and there could be a hundred reasons why one looked better in a particular series than another since they aren't scientific tests. Further, until there is good RAW processing it is really hard to make any final judgement. I have seen LR3 fix the lens distortion pretty well and on the JPGs the images are actually sharper on the NEX with just a little sharpening applied and over sharpened on the X1 so without RAW to compare it is hard to say definitively.

[ChiILX1]

Everyone needs to stop.

 

I learned something about electronics a long time ago. Good warranties follow good quality. Leica offers a 2 year warranty parts & labor on the X1. Panasonic offers 90 days- thats why I got my girlfriend the C-Lux 3 instead of the panny version because she actually got a 3 YEAR warranty parts & labor with it!

 

What does the sony offer? My guess is they offer the same as a walkman. 90 days. Yuck.

 

Features aren't everything. If that were the case I would still be shooting with Casio pocket cameras. But each one of those crapped out on us internally all past the 90 day mark... Companies sell products now a days on a feature list and cheap, dishonest price. Quality has gone to shit because prices are dishonest- they depend on cheap chinese labor, conflict minerals form the Congo, a Wal-Mart retailer, an indebted yet impulsive population, and credit cards. No one cares about quality because good quality just stops you from buying another in a year- instead- they will have a trade up program like Casio. I'm glad I paid a Bavarian's wage and his mid-day beer for this camera- honest pricing means honest living.

 

Leica's different. Look how many people have old Leicas! You can use any lens for the last 50 years on the M8/9. You can still get your M4 repaired by Leica! My guess is that Sony won't even be making parts for your NEX5 next year. "NEX WHAT?" They'll say. My guess is the X1 will be a good camera for quite a few years.

 

Besides that, the X1 is a different class altogether. Buy the NEX 5 if you want to have a walkman for a camera, feel like a consumer rather than a photographer, and most importantly, if you want to be buying a new camera next year either due to internal failure or because you want their next greatest thing that came out. Us X1 users will still be happily shooting away and in love with our cameras. The NEX infatuation will wear off quick.

[ChiILX1]

Maybe you should check on who owns Leica Camera. Also, Blanc Pain produced fine quality watches even when they weren't owned by Swatch. Maybe better some might argue.

 

There are like 3 small watch companies in the world that don't use Swatch internals. Even Rolex is swatch. The last few companies are all old family watchmakers...

[nippa]

. Even Rolex is swatch..

 

My understanding is that Rolex is controlled by a private institution and has no shareholders.That's why they continue to manufacture outdated calibres and live like Leica on past glories. I have 2 new Rolexes and they are nothing special.

IWC uses a Swatch movement (ETA) and is the most accurate conventional watch that I own so like Leica outsourcing components is no bad thing.

I laughed at Barjohn Knocking Seiko Watches in an earlier post ; I have a Grand Seiko GMT Automatic normally available only in Japan and for sheer quality beats most Swiss watches.

 

So what's this got to do with the X1?

This thread goes on and on but bsgraupner is right.

Like a good Swiss Watch my X1 will have a long life and a place in my camera bag. The Nex system will develop into something worthwhile but looks highly disposable.

Do you really want such an ugly camera in your hand?

Don't answer that. Goodnight

[AlanG]

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What does the sony offer? My guess is they offer the same as a walkman. 90 days. Yuck.

 

...Look how many people have old Leicas! You can use any lens for the last 50 years on the M8/9....

 

 

 

You had quite a wild rant going on that post.... conflict minerals from the Congo, etc. And perhaps some groundless assumptions.

 

The Nex and lenses look well made to me. I'd expect the shutter to be pretty durable if it can work at 7 fps.

 

I believe it comes with a one year warranty. And Sony offers these options:

 

* 2 Year Service Plan with Accidental Damage from Handling$89.99

* 3 Year Service Plan with Accidental Damage from Handling$119.99

* 4 Year Service Plan with Accidental Damage from Handling [sony recommends] $149.99

* 2 Year Service Plan$39.99

* 3 Year Service Plan$59.99

* 4 Year Service Plan$79.99

 

So if as you said, "Good warranties follow good quality," you should conclude that the Nex is good quality.

 

And those Leica lenses and many others will work on it too.

[davidhunternyc]

haha thanks...I also would love an M9 for the price for the X1 but life's like that, we get what we pay for. I find the X1 more than its worth of my hard-earned money given its image quality. At the same time, I see some niche products like vertu phones that are really priced astronomically but offer no extra functions or make better calls other than better build quality. Even the M9 though expensive when placed with the nikon D3x and Canon top of the end series I think the pricing is comparable. In fact, to me, maybe not to everyone, I would think that the M9 given its image quality is actually a bargain. Too bad it doesnt have AF. I am hoping the rumored Evil leica fullframe will be released with AF this photokina, if indeed the rumor is true, I'm gonna jump on it and pass my wife the X1. If not, I will still be thinking if I want to forgo AF and get the M9. Decisions, decisions...one thing for sure, the X1 was very liberating for me being my first Leica and it left a lasting good impression of the brand.

 

phancj,

 

Your lament about how one shouldn't expect top quality because Leica is a small company and can't control its vendors is pure nonsense. They can select their vendors and the quality they want to use irrespective of their size. If you want examples of small companies that produce high quality products and have to buy many of their components, look at the nearby Swiss watch industry. Small companies like Blanc Pain, Ulysse Nardin and many others are able to buy basic movements and hand craft them into extremely high quality and expensive time pieces. A stainless model will run about 2 to 4 times the price of an equivalent Seiko or other mass producer. Leica is charging the high prices, just not giving the same relative craftsmanship and value.

 

...and on top of this, look at what Leica has done with Hermes. Both companies are not huge but both have put their minds together to offer the ultimate camera. The Leica M8 limited Hermes edition is the ultimate in luxury, refinement, and sophistication. To say that Leica can't produce a camera without cutting corners is not giving Leica enough credit. Leica can do whatever they set their minds to doing. It seems to me that, as of late, Leica is more concerned about the bottom line and maximizing per unit profit at the expense of quality. Mind you, I'm saying this and I really like my X1 but I still believe this to be true.

[Danielsan]

I don't happen to think the IQ is the best but that really is up to each to judge for themselves,

 

all the pictures i saw from the X1 looked much better then the NEX5 ones with the Kit lenses.

[phancj]

all the pictures i saw from the X1 looked much better then the NEX5 ones with the Kit lenses.

 

I totally agree, plus my own testing of the camera plus the review of images proved the X1 to be far more competent in Image quality. What the nex 5 has to offer is more functionality plus interchangeable lenses.

 

What I believe is the nex 5 has so much functions and all but end of the day, most of the photos that come out of that camera are mediocre compared to the X1. I can just whip up the X1 and take gorgeous photos with OOC jpegs that are great.

 

Also, when I hear nex users claiming they can do low light mode at iso 5000 and with image quality that resembles iso 400 it is downright hilarious, with wild claims and no photos to show for it.

 

I tried the nex 5, and the photos sucked. The reverse is true for X1.

 

Until sony either makes 1) great E-lenses or 2) offer AF for carl zeiss or other alpha-mount lenses the camera cannot be taken seriously as a photographic tool compared to the X1, especially so if image quality is your main concern.

 

Attached impromptu portrait of my tailor in Bangkok. Straight OOC jpeg, downsized with preview only.

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[phancj]

phancj,

 

Your lament about how one shouldn't expect top quality because Leica is a small company and can't control its vendors is pure nonsense. They can select their vendors and the quality they want to use irrespective of their size. If you want examples of small companies that produce high quality products and have to buy many of their components, look at the nearby Swiss watch industry. Small companies like Blanc Pain, Ulysse Nardin and many others are able to buy basic movements and hand craft them into extremely high quality and expensive time pieces. A stainless model will run about 2 to 4 times the price of an equivalent Seiko or other mass producer. Leica is charging the high prices, just not giving the same relative craftsmanship and value.

 

I did not say that Leica has bad quality, but rather certain aspects like materials not manufactured by Leica themselves are not totally within their control, especially with first batch production. Subsequently, obviously Leica will try to better themselves or switch suppliers but whats done is done as far as those that rolled out of production are concerned. it is foolish to think Leica will not do anything about something which has irked some users like peeling skin and is probably working on solutions as we speak. However, what you have to bear in mind is in business, a small company has less financial muscle and in most cases less bargaining power. I can equally say that the watch brands you listed are all using 316L stainless steel which scratches more easily than the proprietary 904 steel that rolex uses, which is much tougher. I do not then go on to say that the brands you listed sucked, see the point? I also would not go into the argument that seiko and many other brands also make watches comparable or better in functionality to the brands you listed, ergo the brands you listed are rip-offs because they overcharge for what they offer?? Consumer decisions are based on functionality, design, workmanship, value and emotion. I see Leica as being tremendously successful in their M9 and X1, and cannot even deliver enough of these cameras, if the workmanship is bad, design poor, AF slow lada, lada.....then why is it flying off the shelves??

 

Your arguments are more to run the X1 down and promote the nex 5, which is fine but you need to back up your statements by actual images, for example ISO 5000 pictures that looks like iso400??!! Please! :D:D

 

And to add, I seriously think that the X1 design is much nicer than the nex, and the materials appeal to me more. That is my individual opinion, and is consistent with my personal feel of both cameras.

 

In future, it would be nice to back up what you say with regards to the nex's image quality, coz so far it is empty talk from you, while so many nice photos have been posted on this site and others with the X1. So far, the only passable pics from the nex has been with non E-mount lenses, so hence no AF, so how can you even complain on the x1's slow AF when there is no-AF to talk about in the nex??!! Please!

 

You are making circular arguments plus boasting wildly about the competence of the nex with no images to show for it. That is the reality. SHOW US THE ISO 5000 PICTURES!!!

[phancj]

...and on top of this, look at what Leica has done with Hermes. Both companies are not huge but both have put their minds together to offer the ultimate camera. The Leica M8 limited Hermes edition is the ultimate in luxury, refinement, and sophistication. To say that Leica can't produce a camera without cutting corners is not giving Leica enough credit. Leica can do whatever they set their minds to doing. It seems to me that, as of late, Leica is more concerned about the bottom line and maximizing per unit profit at the expense of quality. Mind you, I'm saying this and I really like my X1 but I still believe this to be true.

 

May I then point out the price difference between the Hermes and non-hermes models? Getting the picture? I dunno if you guys can see it, but Leica being a small company buys components and ALL materials at a significantly higher price than their giant competitors. When doing something with Hermes, licensing has to be paid and consumers end up paying for it. One thing for sure: ALL businesses need to look at the bottom line to exist and in Leica's case, being small, they need to charge more just to survive. Look at their balance sheet, it is pathetic compared to virtually ALL their competitors. Then look at their reputation of camera and the market reception in their products like M9 and X1. I think they are doing great. I rest my case.

[phancj]

...and on top of this, look at what Leica has done with Hermes. Both companies are not huge but both have put their minds together to offer the ultimate camera. The Leica M8 limited Hermes edition is the ultimate in luxury, refinement, and sophistication. To say that Leica can't produce a camera without cutting corners is not giving Leica enough credit. Leica can do whatever they set their minds to doing. It seems to me that, as of late, Leica is more concerned about the bottom line and maximizing per unit profit at the expense of quality. Mind you, I'm saying this and I really like my X1 but I still believe this to be true.

 

Looking at the actual profit of Leica after taxes I would say they are not laughing to the bank like Canon or Nikon. The relatively low production volumes limits net income, plus exaggerate basic start up costs like tooling, R&D, mold charges, etc. So yes, they are trying to maximize profits like everyone else, but I do not believe more than everyone else even taking into account their higher mark up retail price. I know because I dabbled in boutique electronics products and decided not to expand that business coz it is heavily dependent on volume orders, something not suitable for boutique high-end niche products. You may be shocked at the difference in costings between low and high volume procurement price for parts.

[phancj]

Apparently Getty lists the X1 as the ONLY compact camera, and I do not see the nex or any of the mft included.

 

gettyimages.com/contributors - Digital Camera Reviews

[phancj]

I would advise you to buy whatever you want. That doesn't mean you can't let Leica know of your dissatisfaction. I don't happen to think the IQ is the best but that really is up to each to judge for themselves, I just haven't seen it. Granted, the only real comparison I have seen are Steve Huff's images and there could be a hundred reasons why one looked better in a particular series than another since they aren't scientific tests. Further, until there is good RAW processing it is really hard to make any final judgement. I have seen LR3 fix the lens distortion pretty well and on the JPGs the images are actually sharper on the NEX with just a little sharpening applied and over sharpened on the X1 so without RAW to compare it is hard to say definitively.

 

Great! Having saved some money buying the nex instead of the X1 I would then need to buy the expensive LR3 to deal with the distortion in the crappy kit lens or the alternative is to buy high end state-of-the-art Leica M lenses but then wait! I would lose AF as well as the VR. When I bought the X1, LR2 was free, as it is now and even better coz they provide LR3. I could deal with raw files right the moment I bought it. The fact that proper raw support is still not forthcoming soon for the nex 5 could be an indication that the camera is mostly for P&S up-graders who probably will use jpegs anyway.

 

For me, I would like something to work nicely right out of the box, and right away. with the nex, I must buy this and that, forgo this and that,etc,etc...Get Real!!

 

You cannot make a compelling argument for the nex, and that is fact, not good image quality out of box, no raw support, lousy lens, etc,etc. The X1 worked for me beautifully since day one. The reason why I am defending the X1 is not because it is a perfect camera or I am a fanboy, but because I tried the nex at launch and it sucked big time. I do not want to see people buy this camera and expecting anything close to the image quality of the X1. It has a lot going for it, but top-notch image quality is not one of them. The X1 has minimum functions and idiosyncratic but it delivers great IQ almost all the time. As for the pricing, it is for the prospective buyer to decide, but if I have to buy lightroom or equivalent software, Leica lenses, etc,etc I would say then the X1 is an elegant performer at a good value.

 

Please anyone who is contemplating buying the nex, bring a laptop, take some photos, look at these photos on the screen. I did and I was appalled. Do the same with the X1.

 

I am not running sony down as I own PSP, PS3, etc,etc and got loads of sony products at home and in the office. It is a great brand with high quality products. But the nex is clearly aimed at a different market who demands small form factor with menu assistance but only passable image quality. For many who visit this site, we want topnotch IQ at the smallest form factor. The nex is superbly small and pretty with the pancake, but after all that adaptors and gargantuan lenses you lose AF and makes the thing a monstrosity.

[phancj]

X1 iso 800. Please note that the railings and structures are severely curved and arched, just in case it may be perceived as lens distortion.

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[h00ligan]

Phanc - Just a helpful pointer, if you want to quote and reply to many different posts, you can use the little quote sign with the plus at the bottom right of the post(next to the word quote), then press 'post reply' at the bottom left, that way it allows you to address multiple posts inside one reply.

[phancj]

Phanc - Just a helpful pointer, if you want to quote and reply to many different posts, you can use the little quote sign with the plus at the bottom right of the post(next to the word quote), then press 'post reply' at the bottom left, that way it allows you to address multiple posts inside one reply.

 

Thanks so much, actually I was replying in between my work, so it was done on separate occasions....but its good to know, coz I didnt know that!

[ChiILX1]

You had quite a wild rant going on that post.... conflict minerals from the Congo, etc. And perhaps some groundless assumptions.

 

The Nex and lenses look well made to me. I'd expect the shutter to be pretty durable if it can work at 7 fps.

 

I believe it comes with a one year warranty. And Sony offers these options:

 

* 2 Year Service Plan with Accidental Damage from Handling$89.99

* 3 Year Service Plan with Accidental Damage from Handling$119.99

* 4 Year Service Plan with Accidental Damage from Handling [sony recommends] $149.99

* 2 Year Service Plan$39.99

* 3 Year Service Plan$59.99

* 4 Year Service Plan$79.99

 

So if as you said, "Good warranties follow good quality," you should conclude that the Nex is good quality.

 

And those Leica lenses and many others will work on it too.

 

No way! There is no comparison- if you haven't noticed people are almost unanimously happy with their leica warranty service. Sony's is HORRIBLE! I had an extended warranty on a top of the line discman of theirs - I had to pay to send it in when it just stopped working- and when they got it they said they no longer made the parts. My only options were to take it back unusable or get market value for it- which was 20% of what I bought it for!!!

 

Sony is bad but not alone- everyone pushes extended warranties now a days but I've had many of them and they were all WORTHLESS.

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[ChiILX1]

Case closed! Today I experienced for myself the difference between pictures taken with the X1 and NEX:

 

I was waiting in line to enter Lollapalooza and a guy behind me had an NEX 3 or 5- they didn't let it in! No interchangeable lens cameras allowed!

 

Haha the guy left to take it home and probably had to shoot with his mobile the whole time!