Sony NEX 5 vs Leica x1

[phancj]

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Case closed! Today I experienced for myself the difference between pictures taken with the X1 and NEX:

 

I was waiting in line to enter Lollapalooza and a guy behind me had an NEX 3 or 5- they didn't let it in! No interchangeable lens cameras allowed!

 

Haha the guy left to take it home and probably had to shoot with his mobile the whole time!

 

Thats funny, btw, where is this place where they have restrictions on type of cameras and why?

[ChiILX1]

Thats funny, btw, where is this place where they have restrictions on type of cameras and why?

 

Lollaplooza is (I believe) the largest music fest in the world right now (but I could be wrong). It's currently held in Chicago every year.

 

They do not allow any "professional recording equipment" inside- which they define as having interchangeable lenses. However I did meet a photographer inside who was able to sneak in an old M4. By and large though- only cameras with fixed lenses were allowed inside unless you were an official event photographer.

 

Needless to say when I heard them arguing behind me and saw it was an NEX, I had to chuckle and though of this forum

[phancj]

Lollaplooza is (I believe) the largest music fest in the world right now (but I could be wrong). It's currently held in Chicago every year.

 

They do not allow any "professional recording equipment" inside- which they define as having interchangeable lenses. However I did meet a photographer inside who was able to sneak in an old M4. By and large though- only cameras with fixed lenses were allowed inside unless you were an official event photographer.

 

Needless to say when I heard them arguing behind me and saw it was an NEX, I had to chuckle and though of this forum

 

One thing I noticed when using the X1 is how nobody seems to bother or take notice when we go around snapping. It is almost like the camera makes us invisible. When I take my DSLR with the giant zoom people instinctively look posed or annoyed. I even once had one guy shouting at me when i was taking photos in a busy mall, even when I was not shooting him??!! Something about right of his privacy:rolleyes:

 

With the X1 I have so much fun and no angst, nobody bothers!

[eelekim]

One thing I noticed when using the X1 is how nobody seems to bother or take notice when we go around snapping. It is almost like the camera makes us invisible. When I take my DSLR with the giant zoom people instinctively look posed or annoyed. I even once had one guy shouting at me when i was taking photos in a busy mall, even when I was not shooting him??!! Something about right of his privacy:rolleyes:

 

With the X1 I have so much fun and no angst, nobody bothers!

 

I'm not as lucky. And I think it depends on cultures. Here in the Chinese society, people are quite shy or defensive if being pointed with any cameras. Of course, a compact camera like X1 is much better than a DSLR to minimize such camera alert.

[phancj]

I'm not as lucky. And I think it depends on cultures. Here in the Chinese society, people are quite shy or defensive if being pointed with any cameras. Of course, a compact camera like X1 is much better than a DSLR to minimize such camera alert.

 

And to think I always thought that Macau is a very liberal society:)

[Danielsan]

When i think about Macao and the X1 i always have this utube video in my mind This asian guy with british accent testing the X1 in macao, u are are not involved in this

[h00ligan]

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The Chinese Jeremy Clarkson of camera gear! That guy rules.

[Guest douglasf13]

Wow, I must say, after reading 12 pages of this thread, I'm so surprised that so many Leica users fail to see the beauty of the NEX-5: using M lenses.

 

From a sensor standpoint, there is little between the X1 and NEX. The NEX version is simply a slightly improved version of the same sensor the X1 uses. The metamarism of the NEX is class leading, so color is good in both.

 

Everyone knows that the NEX lenses are cheap kit lenses of average quality, and, while they are capable of producing nice images, they can't be compare to the X1's lens. However, since the Zeiss lenses for NEX aren't available yet (Sony themselves say they are coming,) using M lenses on this camera is remarkable. Combine that with the tilting LCD that essentially turns the camera into a mini waistlevel Rollei, and you've really got an entirely new class of camera. Really, this discussion should be about M8/M9 vs. NEX.

[davidhunternyc]

 

From a sensor standpoint, there is little between the X1 and NEX. The NEX version is simply a slightly improved version of the same sensor the X1 uses. The metamarism of the NEX is class leading, so color is good in both.

 

Everyone knows that the NEX lenses are cheap kit lenses of average quality, and, while they are capable of producing nice images, they can't be compare to the X1's lens. However, since the Zeiss lenses for NEX aren't available yet (Sony themselves say they are coming,) using M lenses on this camera is remarkable. Combine that with the tilting LCD that essentially turns the camera into a mini waistlevel Rollei, and you've really got an entirely new class of camera. Really, this discussion should be about M8/M9 vs. NEX.

 

Interesting theory indeed. We will know for sure once the Zeiss lenses are available for the NEX. For me, the NEX would also need to have an optical or EVF and have simplified manual controls and menu options. Take what is already a minimal looking package, add the necessary functions, and simplify even more. If Sony did this, it could be an X1 beater, and mind you, I love my X1. Unfortunately, I do not think Sony will go this route. Sony will market the NEX by offering all the whistles and bells.

[Danielsan]

Everyone knows that the NEX lenses are cheap kit lenses of average quality, and, while they are capable of producing nice images, they can't be compare to the X1's lens. However, since the Zeiss lenses for NEX aren't available yet (Sony themselves say they are coming,) using M lenses on this camera is remarkable.

u missed the point, if u put a higher priced lens on the NEX then it isnt small anymore and only MF, the reason why ppl buy the X1 is the size, they want to have a small camera with DSLR Image quality and with a heavy and big lens on the NEX you dont have that anymore, then u can buy a Canon 550D as well;)

 

Also the X1 lens is only designed for that sensor and camera, no compromise here. im not sure if u can MF god enough with the nex cause otherwise u would be doomed.

 

So u have either a small camera with crappy lenses or a camera bigger then the X1 with MF that probably equals the X1 in IQ. THe NEX5 package with a decent lens is alot more expensive then X1 i would say.

[Guest douglasf13]

u missed the point, if u put a higher priced lens on the NEX then it isnt small anymore and only MF, the reason why ppl buy the X1 is the size, they want to have a small camera with DSLR Image quality and with a heavy and big lens on the NEX you dont have that anymore, then u can buy a Canon 550D as well;)

 

Also the X1 lens is only designed for that sensor and camera, no compromise here. im not sure if u can MF god enough with the nex cause otherwise u would be doomed.

 

So u have either a small camera with crappy lenses or a camera bigger then the X1 with MF that probably equals the X1 in IQ. THe NEX5 package with a decent lens is alot more expensive then X1 i would say.

 

A CV Nokton 35 1.4 is only about an inch long, and the adapter is less than 10mm. It is still compact and pocketable, and the combo is around $1200. MF is very easy with NEX with its magnification button.

 

Again, the easy usage of M lenses on NEX with only a 1.5x crop makes NEX more of an M camera competitor. X1 is awesome and small, but I want a faster lens.

[Danielsan]

Here the combo is like 1100 Euro against 1500 Euro for the X1, with the first combo you have a beginners lens from voigtlander with MF only and a better screen and this screen is highly needed with MF !. I would pay the 400 Euro difference for AF, a smaller and slightly lighter camera, probably better IQ, probably more price stable when selling, better looks and also exclusivity, some will definately go with the NEX5 combo but not me

[Guest douglasf13]

Here the combo is like 1100 Euro against 1500 Euro for the X1, with the first combo you have a beginners lens from voigtlander with MF only and a better screen and this screen is highly needed with MF !. I would pay the 400 Euro difference for AF, a smaller and slightly lighter camera, probably better IQ, probably more price stable when selling, better looks and also exclusivity, some will definately go with the NEX5 combo but not me

 

Like I said, NEX is really more an M9 lite. The fact that the size of an interchangeable lens camera is even comparable in size to the X1 is quite an achievement from Sony.

 

As for the Voigtlander lens, I certainly wouldn't call the X1's lens any better, just different. In fact, the main reason I've stayed away from the X1 is the f2.8 speed. If you want to go really cheap and small, you can throw a Contax G Zeiss 35 f2 on NEX for a few hundred bucks, and that Contax G line of lenses is phenomenal.

 

When Zeiss makes a small, standard prime for NEX, things will get really interesting, but, as it is, being able to mount anything from M lenses to R lenses to old Takumars is pretty cool. Plus, like I mentioned earlier, the flip screen-waist level shooting makes the NEX a great street shooter in a way the X1 can't compete with.

[Danielsan]

I dont need a swivel screen, i never liked swivel screens in fact.I dont like the fact that u can change lenses, that was one reason i sold the DSLR, always dust came in. I like the X1 and Sigma DP camera concept a lot more. I dont own any lenses for cameras, just the X1 and the camera in the Iphone, so i would have to buy lenses for the NEX5. I think the X1 lens is indeed a bit better then the voigtlander u mentioned. The AF is the most important thing for me in a pocket camera, i would only accept MF with the M-System which looks like a lot of fun to use. To say its a M9 light is a bit too much, probably an M8 lite then.

[phancj]

Like I said, NEX is really more an M9 lite. The fact that the size of an interchangeable lens camera is even comparable in size to the X1 is quite an achievement from Sony.

 

As for the Voigtlander lens, I certainly wouldn't call the X1's lens any better, just different. In fact, the main reason I've stayed away from the X1 is the f2.8 speed. If you want to go really cheap and small, you can throw a Contax G Zeiss 35 f2 on NEX for a few hundred bucks, and that Contax G line of lenses is phenomenal.

 

When Zeiss makes a small, standard prime for NEX, things will get really interesting, but, as it is, being able to mount anything from M lenses to R lenses to old Takumars is pretty cool. Plus, like I mentioned earlier, the flip screen-waist level shooting makes the NEX a great street shooter in a way the X1 can't compete with.

 

Sorry, the nex is nowhere near the M9, so is the X1, far from it. THe combination of topnotch CCD with the lack of an AA filter has the potential to produce images that other cameras cannot match. Yes, Sony's miniaturization technology is great and renowned, but its integration and use of special E-mount lenses for it to AF is its folly. Look at Nikon & Leica most of their vintage lenses can even be used. Sony in its quest for ultimate miniaturization may have gone overboard since there is probably no way to make the camera small without the need for revolutionary lenses design.

 

As for CV lenses they are good but not in the league of Leica lenses. The f2.8 lens has never failed me, and if the need be just bump up iso since the X1 is stellar in high iso department. The swivel screen is nice to have, but then the nex has this heavy shutter that adds vibration into the picture.

 

At the end of the day, choice of camera is individual and everyone has different needs. The X1 has a lot going for it although far from perfect. It small size, excellent lens, good image processing trumps the nex IMHO since the nex cannot compete in IQ with kit lenses but after adding adaptor and third party primes the whole thing becomes hideous when the original camera is so tiny and appealing.

 

I think it becomes interesting when competent e-mount lenses comes out, but I think the nex is selling fast (from sony sales reps close to me) for its target market who are mostly p&s upgraders and gals who need a camera with better IQ but can fit in a handbag nicely. Unfortunately for us the target market has no need for ultimate IQ so I do not foresee sony launching pro-series for E-mount. And if I were to buy something like the nex I would want AF. The X1 has slower AF but it is sufficient for me, and at least there is AF.

 

Like the X1, the sony nex has a nice future and we can be sure future incantations will be substantially better. Right now if I want great IQ out of a tiny camera, the X1 has a lot more going for it.

[Guest douglasf13]

It's not just P&S upgraders buying NEX. Everyone is buying NEX, from P&S users to Sony Alpha users to Leica M users. Sure, the largest buying audience is always the casual crowd, but there is certainly advanced user enthusiasm as well. I have a feeling you might need to get out of this Leica forum ecosystem a bit and you'll find TONS users of all types snapping up NEXs.

 

As for sensors, your X1's sensor is actually quite a bit more advanced than the M9's (outside of the offset microlenses.) The M9's sensel is based off of an aging Kodak design, but it leverages this with larger size and the lack of an AA filter.

 

Sony has already clearly stated at PMA that Zeiss is working on E mount lenses. It's not a matter of if, but when. As for the CV lens, it's a matter of preference. I know plenty who have sold their pre-asph Summilux 35 for the CV. Granted, you're not getting the same build quality with the CV.

 

I think the X1 is a cool camera. If they would make it with a standard lens at f2 or faster, I would consider buying one.

[phancj]

It's not just P&S upgraders buying NEX. Everyone is buying NEX, from P&S users to Sony Alpha users to Leica M users. Sure, the largest buying audience is always the casual crowd, but there is certainly advanced user enthusiasm as well. I have a feeling you might need to get out of this Leica forum ecosystem a bit and you'll find TONS users of all types snapping up NEXs.

 

As for sensors, your X1's sensor is actually quite a bit more advanced than the M9's (outside of the offset microlenses.) The M9's sensel is based off of an aging Kodak design, but it leverages this with larger size and the lack of an AA filter.

 

Sony has already clearly stated at PMA that Zeiss is working on E mount lenses. It's not a matter of if, but when. As for the CV lens, it's a matter of preference. I know plenty who have sold their pre-asph Summilux 35 for the CV. Granted, you're not getting the same build quality with the CV.

 

I think the X1 is a cool camera. If they would make it with a standard lens at f2 or faster, I would consider buying one.

 

I have no doubt the nex is popular, but right now in its infancy it does nothing for me at all.

 

Aging or not, the image quality from the M9 is astounding, and that is fact. No x1, nex is close, advanced sensor or not.

 

Sony says it is working on E-mount lenses. Like I said, I think the nex line is promising and am watching it with close interest, but with any camera purchase we are looking at what is available right now, not what is promised. No one knows what happens next, so with the x1 i am making pictures I am extremely happy with right away out of the box, together with LR3. I cannot say the same for nex if I purchase one now, unless I invest in adaptor, M-lenses and use only MF. Raw support is also sorely lacking for it as far as I know. Meanwhile, Leica and other manufacturers are also improving with new product lines (Nikon for one) so the idea of promised future lenses is quite moot.

 

That kind of trade-off I am not willing to make.

 

Perhaps in your case a f2.o lens is crucial, but for many bumming up the iso a notch will do fine.

[phancj]

The whole CCD vs CMOS debate has being going on ad infinitum, but one thing for certain: Most high end imaging systems utilize CCD over CMOS for tonal range and other advantages. What CMOS has over CCD is low noise. CCD also costs more right now. As far as I know, Sony is working on some new generation super CCD sensor, perhaps also recognizing its advantages for use in its top end future product lines.

 

Right now, it is clear that CCD produce finer images than CMOS, and all medium format backs use it.

[Ecaton]

Comparing NEX with M9, I don't think so. I could see it as a better backup to an M8 or M9 than mft. In the M9 section they discuss the ideal travel kit and several mention the Ricoh GRD3 to be thrown into the bag. NEX with pancake and adapter could be an alternative.

NEX versus X1: do you prefer a tripple tourbo charged car of Asian make with tons of (nominal) horsepowers over a Porsche Boxster? Or five big Macs incl fries over a connaisseurs meal?

My choice is clear:)

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[JanCderidder]

Other than the fact that one needs 20/20 vision to focus any MF lens on the Nex, or a permanent exchange of glasses, MF lenses aren't such a good idea (for me at least).

 

Having the Nex and a Leica adapter I am quite disappointed by the IQ, if one adds up the cost price of all needed components the X1 is a better deal and produces wonderful IQ, something that nobody can dispute.

 

A new high quality Sony e-mount AF lens will perhaps do the trick.

 

I like my Nex, I use it in 8% of the cases I need a longer than 35mm focal length for which I use the kit-toom. I have the 16m also, but this lens is totally inferior to the X1 setup.

 

I do however love the flip screen of the Nex