My turn. Shutter. :)

[ho_co]

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Will--

I think they must be pretty backlogged.

 

My M8 was returned from Allendale today (Tu 11 May), fifteen weeks to the day from when I shipped it. It needed replacement of the main circuit board, a part they were out of; their estimate was "end of April," so I think they were pretty accurate.

 

I imagine that during that time a lot of equipment came in and had to sit awaiting parts.

 

I'm following your saga closely with fingers crossed.

 

 

 

BTW, we'll both be pissed if we later find out the silver chrome cameras are the troublesome ones. I can see it now, while he's still opening the package, the technician sighs, "Drat. Another silver one."

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[wstotler]

Quick follow-up. I spoke with Leica service this morning and they completed the assessment on the camera yesterday and it's in the system.

 

Shutter will need to be replaced, in addition to CLA and pixel mapping. Leica NJ decided to not charge for the cost of the shutter--but will charge for labor. No details on the decision-making process.

 

This decision does feel "right" to me--and not just because it's in my favor. Service is acknowledging that the part shouldn't have failed and is taking responsibility for that. Regarding the repair/CLA/pixel mapping charge--that's a labor process to get at the bad part and I'll have to pay for that, which feels fair. Of course, Leica NJ was under no obligation to "be fair" about this--the camera is out of warranty.

 

No change on the service time and no commitment. Just this: "Definitely not sooner than four weeks."

 

I authorized the repair over the phone--and could because of the paperwork I included. More on that. With the camera, I sent detailed printed information describing the problem (including my case that I believe the shutter shouldn't have failed at so "low" an actuation count), a shot of the mangled shutter, shots taken just before the failure, and shots immediately after the failure--I was on the beach shooting a series. Just so they could see that I wasn't cleaning my sensor or sticking my fingers in there, etc. I also described the shoots I had cancelled or postponed and indicated how losing the camera to the failure would present an obstacle. (I've since overcome this with the new, used M8, but I'm having to reschedule everything, which is a pain. And here's knocking on wood that the new, used M8 doesn't decide it needs a holiday, also.) I also included credit card information on a separate sheet with written pre-authorization to charge for shutter replacement, as that's clearly what the problem was. In any case, detailed information couldn't hurt. I imagine (perhaps unfairly) that the service tech unboxed my camera and went: WTF?! in response to the paperwork included, but, I'd rather spell it out and have that examined than leave them guessing.

 

Cheers,

Will

[ho_co]

Will--

Thanks for the post. I agree that the treatment seems fair and responsive. Personally, I think Leica generally handles this sort of issue well, and I'm glad they've done so here.

[wstotler]

Will--

Thanks for the post. I agree that the treatment seems fair and responsive. Personally, I think Leica generally handles this sort of issue well, and I'm glad they've done so here.

 

Only because it was a chrome model. Hope your camera has had enough holiday time, BTW, and you can get some good use out of it. Cheers! Will

[jaques]

Of course, Leica NJ was under no obligation to "be fair" about this--the camera is out of warranty.

I am no totally sure about this.

 

In Australia at least there are two types of warranties on goods- the one provided by the manufacturer and/or supplier- and another one implied by law. Goods have to be of a quality in line with their description and price. The must be 'of merchantable quality'. In terms of very expensive items we can actually expect this consumer protection 'warranty' to extend beyond a year... I think Leica is currently promoting the M9 as a 'camera for life' of the 'highest possible quality'. The price certainly matches these claims but I am not totally sure the actual quality of the camera (m8/m9) matches this claim... to have the shutter self destruct all by itself after on 50K actuations when it is supposedly rated for 150,000... I am not sure if that is a 'camera for life'. I would have hoped a shutter rated for 150K actuations would achieve an average of double that amount.

[ho_co]

... In Australia at least there are two types of warranties on goods- ...

Jaques--

I don't think there are such rules in the US, but in my experience, Leica tends to treat the customer more than fairly in this kind of situation.

 

 

... to have the shutter self destruct all by itself after on 50K actuations when it is supposedly rated for 150,000...

I'm unaware that Leica has claimed any expected number of actuations. As a matter of fact, in a previous thread on the topic, I became convinced that no manufacturer guarantees (or implies(?)) a shutter rating of a specific number of actuations.

 

 

... Of course, Leica NJ was under no obligation to "be fair" about this--the camera is out of warranty....

Will, I understand the point, but Leica's name and reputation is on the line every time a situation like this comes up.

 

I bought a car some years back. The engine needed replacement just before 40,000 miles. But because I don't drive all that much, the six-year time limit had expired. The dealer offered me a replacement engine for 20% of usual cost plus labor. Again, the only reason he had to "be fair" was that he knew I would never buy the same brand of car again if he wasn't. BTW: The only part of the car (VW diesel) made in Germany was the engine; the rest came from Mexico.

[ampguy]

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Decades ago, the M3s were occasionally tested to ~ 500K actuations, stopping because the testing machine had given up, not the camera. Some individuals were reported that they were promised another 25 year warranties after having their first factory cleaning after 35 years. This is from old issues of the US Leica club archives - late '60s, early '70s.

 

Things have changed.

 

 

Jaques--

I don't think there are such rules in the US, but in my experience, Leica tends to treat the customer more than fairly in this kind of situation.

 

 

 

I'm unaware that Leica has claimed any expected number of actuations. As a matter of fact, in a previous thread on the topic, I became convinced that no manufacturer guarantees (or implies(?)) a shutter rating of a specific number of actuations.

 

 

 

Will, I understand the point, but Leica's name and reputation is on the line every time a situation like this comes up.

 

I bought a car some years back. The engine needed replacement just before 40,000 miles. But because I don't drive all that much, the six-year time limit had expired. The dealer offered me a replacement engine for 20% of usual cost plus labor. Again, the only reason he had to "be fair" was that he knew I would never buy the same brand of car again if he wasn't. BTW: The only part of the car (VW diesel) made in Germany was the engine; the rest came from Mexico.

[ho_co]

And I think someone--maybe you?--found an implication in one of the ad campaigns, the one that asked "How quiet is your camera?" "How light is your camera?" etc.

 

There was a page that implied that the M8 should hold up for a certain number of shots. But by the time we got to the discussion, the page had disappeared.

 

Funny how we demand a certain number of actuations now that a digital system can record them, isn't it? Previously we just assumed the shutter would last, and usually it did, but we had no way to count it.

 

I like the story that the machine gave up before the camera did. Probably more like the latest intern doing the test decided he didn't like photography any more.

[wstotler]

Quick update--spoke with Leica NJ today and was told "June 1" for when the camera will hit the repair bench. Much better than I thought. If that turns out to be true, it's a four-week-ish wait for repair at the moment. We'll see. In other news, I noted that the hotshoe springs on the "new" used M8 are much stiffer than my hotshoe springs on the M8 that's in for repair, so I requested that Leica see what they can do about that--replace or adjust the hotshoe springs while they're replacing the shutter so that the springs are tight again. (It's why I called them.) They said they'd add that to the repair checks and could do it. Happy about that. Cheers, Will.

[wstotler]

Final (?) update. My M8 is back from Leica NJ and works great. The CLA has made the camera look all but new, which is lovely. The lenses I sent to DAG came back also, looking beautiful, properly lubed up and clean, and working great with their new 6-bit coding. So, apart from the wait, pretty happy. Off for more shooting. Cheers! Will