Drive Blocked/Shutter Fault

[beverlylogan]

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My M8 stopped working!!! I got a message, "Shutter Failure." I recharged the battery, put it back in and got the message "Drive Blocked" followed by the words "Shutter Fault." I immediately drove to NJ to the Leica repair and they agreed it was kaput and I needed a new part. The cost: $525.

 

I have taken fewer than 6,000 pix with the camera and in my 40 years of taking pictures with Nikons and Canons, I have never had a camera break.

 

What is the story on the Leica M8 and shutter failure? I will ask if Leica will pay for the repair, but the camera is out of warranty. What are other experiences people have had?

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[WarriorJazz]

Hi,

 

I send my m8 back to Solms last week because of a Shutter Fault error. It did not freeze up like yours but I have a feeling it would not take long till it would.

The more I google about this the more I hear about this problem. To me this seems to be a typical m8 problem maybe because this was Leica's first digital M camera. Luckely mine still has warrenty an they will probably put in a new and better shutter.

I feel that the m8 does not have the same reputation as the film M's. I never had a problem with those.

 

Sorry to hear about the big repair costs.

[jaapv]

Well, the shutter is built by Copal ( as are nearly all shutters on all brands of camera) and it certainly was not the first shutter they built. It is said to be basically the same shutter as the R8/R9.

[marknorton]

There are two shutter winding errors which the camera can detect.

 

The first, which is what Beverly has, is when the camera switches on the motor and then looks for confirmation that the shutter winding mechanism is moving. There's an optical sensor which is unblocked at the start of the winding cycle. If the expected motion is not seen, the camera assumes the mechanism is physically blocked, switches off the motor and puts up the error.

 

This error can be caused by a physically jammed shutter but also by the motor failing, the power supply to it or the optical sensor - any one of the parts required to switch the motor on and monitor the movement failing - the camera is saying "I switched on the motor and didn't see the expected motion, so something is wrong". The danger when the customer is paying is that they will simply replace everything - shutter, motor, gearbox, control electronics with identifying what exactly has failed. I'd ask for the failed parts to be returned.

 

Difficult to know what could be physically jamming the motion of the shutter wind. The output of the motor and gearbox is pretty strong and I'm not sure what in the shutter would be able to withstand the force without moving. Beverly, did you take a look in the lens throat and did everything seem normal, apart from the white strip which is only visible when the shutter is cocked?

 

The second error is where the shutter release mechanism cannot be set and, again, there's an optical sensor to confirm whether this has happened. It occurs at the end of the shutter cocking cycle and the camera's response is to retry the shutter wind two or three times before giving up. This is the error I had with mine before the whole camera decided it had had enough of me!

 

Ignoring my problem, which is not in any way a reflection of Leica quality because of what the camera has been through, it's very unfortunate that this repair is required after so few shots and it would certainly be worth banging the table.

[beverlylogan]

I looked in the lens throat and saw something steel-colored on the left side of the shutter. The guy at Leica Service said he had the part and would be able to replace it; he didn't say which part.

 

I'm leaving for a month-long trip May 5 and didn't want to argue too much at the time. I need my camera.

 

I will call Christian Erhard (head guy at the service) when he gets back from Germany to see if Leica will help me with this. I hope I can trust the camera once it is repaired. Also taking my little Canon G11 as backup; it costs less than the repair. Don't want to lug the 5D.

 

Just bad luck, I guess.

[trs]

I wonder if you got that because of descrete mode + C mode. Mine is in NJ as well for very same failure, same estimate. Mine was for sure due to descrete mode + C issue.

[beverlylogan]

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Have no idea what you are talking about? What are those? Did Leica give you a break on the cost of repair?

[trs]

There is known bug in latest FW.

 

Descrete Mode = make it quiter by not recocking the shutter until you release your finger from the shutter release button. In other word, if you are in Descrete mode, as long as you hold down the release button, camera does not make that whining sound after the inital click. Sounds comes after you release shutter button.

 

C Mode: It's the continious mode [2FPS] right next to S mark. Basically, continious mode supposed to keep shooting as long as you press the button. Thus not compatible with descrete mode.

 

Unfortunately, Leica just decided to document the issue instead of fixing it before release. So, I put in that by mode accident in dark shooting situation.

 

I got the break down of the work item, but not price. Below is the break down.

 

Repair shutter mechanism

replace magnets

upgrade to current standard

perform pixel/colum restoration [not sure what this means]

check and adjust for good working order.

 

Total US$525.00

[ho_co]

... Unfortunately, Leica just decided to document the issue instead of fixing it before release. ...

 

That's interesting. I hadn't heard they were aware of the problem prior to releasing the firmware. Could you point me to a source for that information?

[trs]

Now you got me worndering.

 

I definitely knew about the issue when I upgraded my camera with the FW because it was the most exciting feature for me. I was pretty sure the warning was there, but I don't see it now. Maybe it was never there. Now, I have to go find how I found out that convinced me that Leica documented it.

 

The whole time since release, I always believed that and was shocking to me the the approach Leica took. Regardless, they should've fixed the problem ASAP, but we don't have it to date. It is unavoidable if you want to use the descrete mode regardless of how careful you are. It is bound to happen unless you put something there to stop the knowb.

 

Anyway, now I am in hunt for refreshing my memory.

 

Thanks Howard for asking the question.

[ho_co]

Tanka, thanks for the response!

 

I agree with you that it's not like Leica simply to document a problem but release the firmware anyway.

 

But getting the Discreet Mode was a pleasant enough gift on its own, so I'm willing to give them a few days more for a solution.

 

 

Come to think of it, I don't remember whether the M9 also has the problem with Discreet + Continuous. Anyone know?

[beverlylogan]

Yes. That is what happened: I accidently put the camera in C mode. But I did not deliberately put it in descreet mode. If this is a Leica bug, aren't they responsible? Can u direct me to the documentation? Thanks

[doubice]

I keep on reading about the incompatibility of the Discreet Mode and Continuous Mode and am wondering - what happened to common sense? Please do not misunderstand me - I am not defending Leica but, would you engage Reverse in your car’s transmission while moving forward at 100km/h? Why blame the manufacturer and expect the firmware to fix this issue?

 

Why not use common sense and deduce that when the camera is in the Discreet Mode and the shutter release is held continuously, the Continuous Mode simply cannot work or, in the worst case scenario, will jam the camera?

 

Sorry - I do not wish to offend anybody…. Just wondering aloud…..

 

All the best,

 

Jan

[kully]

I don't think that this C + D mode incompatibility can be compared to someone putting their car into reverse whilst in forward motion.

 

The C mode is easily, inadvertantly engaged with some pressure to the mode dial around the shutter. Furthermore, it would seem commonsense that the D mode is disabled by the camera whilst shooting in C mode - if you need to take a quick burst, why the need to faff about in the menu?

 

If a gearbox in a car changed between a forward gear and reverse with a brush of the gearstick as you were reaching to change the radio station - I'd hope you would complain.

[menos I M6]

I keep on reading about the incompatibility of the Discreet Mode and Continuous Mode and am wondering - what happened to common sense? Please do not misunderstand me - I am not defending Leica but, would you engage Reverse in your car’s transmission while moving forward at 100km/h? Why blame the manufacturer and expect the firmware to fix this issue?

 

Why not use common sense and deduce that when the camera is in the Discreet Mode and the shutter release is held continuously, the Continuous Mode simply cannot work or, in the worst case scenario, will jam the camera?

 

Sorry - I do not wish to offend anybody…. Just wondering aloud…..

 

All the best,

 

Jan

 

It is rather easy, to accidentally move the much too easy mode dial into "c" - much easier, than to put in the reverse gear in a car, which usually has an mechanical interlock for the reverse gear position, be it a manual or automatic transmission.

[aesop]

My M8 stopped working!!! I got a message, "Shutter Failure." I recharged the battery, put it back in and got the message "Drive Blocked" followed by the words "Shutter Fault." I immediately drove to NJ to the Leica repair and they agreed it was kaput and I needed a new part. The cost: $525.

 

I have taken fewer than 6,000 pix with the camera and in my 40 years of taking pictures with Nikons and Canons, I have never had a camera break.

 

What is the story on the Leica M8 and shutter failure? I will ask if Leica will pay for the repair, but the camera is out of warranty. What are other experiences people have had?

 

 

...quick question - has the M8 been with you from brand new?

[ho_co]

... Why not use common sense and deduce that when the camera is in the Discreet Mode and the shutter release is held continuously, the Continuous Mode simply cannot work or, in the worst case scenario, will jam the camera? ...

 

Jan, that seemed to be the consensus when the problem first arose; we're still hoping that a firmware update will save us from ourselves.

 

 

In this case, Beverly says she had accidentally shifted the camera into Continuous Mode; and apparently, the camera was put out of commission by that error. There have been a number of posts about the ease of moving the mode switch unintentionally, so if the camera can be damaged by setting these two modes simultaneously, I think it's something Leica should address.

 

 

Beverly--

I'm sorry for the problem, but look at the bright side: Your camera will be brought up to the latest standard in electronics and mechanics with the paid repair, and you'll have a one-year warranty on the whole thing.

 

Do keep us posted as things progress!

[mjh]

I keep on reading about the incompatibility of the Discreet Mode and Continuous Mode and am wondering - what happened to common sense? Please do not misunderstand me - I am not defending Leica but, would you engage Reverse in your car’s transmission while moving forward at 100km/h? Why blame the manufacturer and expect the firmware to fix this issue?

Of course the two settings are incompatible, but with one setting buried in the menu and the other being engaged by turning a lever (sometimes accidentally), one would expect the camera to do the sensible thing and have continuous mode override the discreet setting. Or at least it should put up a warning message rather than self-destruct.

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[menos I M6]

Of course the two settings are incompatible, but with one setting buried in the menu and the other being engaged by turning a lever (sometimes accidentally), one would expect the camera to do the sensible thing and have continuous mode override the discreet setting. Or at least it should put up a warning message rather than self-destruct.

 

Or pull a countdown to self destruction first, so users, being aware of the issue can pull the battery first ;-)

[mjh]

Or pull a countdown to self destruction first, so users, being aware of the issue can pull the battery first ;-)

Yeah, it’s no fun if you don’t even get a chance to either cut the red or the blue wire. And if it’s the wrong one, you know it was your fault.