Advice Needed on Sensor Cleaning (again)

[gpleica]

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As M9 owners, it seems many of us have had to deal with sensor cleaning issues like never before in our photographic lives. I thought I had things pretty well solved with the occasional use of Dust Aid Platinum adhesive swabs to lift off the occasional dust specks introduced (probably) from frequent lens changes. I did this a week ago and to my surprise, the device left some debris on the sensor that wouldn't come off with repeated touches with a fresh Platinum swab. So where to turn...here of course. So I read the threads on sensor cleaning, ordered the Eclipse 2 swabs that come pre-moistened (because I read how often the mistake one makes is to put too much fluid on the swab), and went at it, following the directions to the T. One swipe across, don't lift off, swab back across the other way, and dispose of the swab.

 

The result is that my sensor is covered with what look to be fluid marks..almost like the water spots we once saw on our film after it was dry if we didn't use a wetting agent as a final rinse.

 

So my question is, now what to do? I have four more E2 swabs, each sealed in their individual packets. Any ideas on this? It would be great to get M9 sensor cleaning down to a sure thing. This floundering around is very frustrating, especially when I have shoots scheduled for next week. Thanks for your advice!

 

Geoffrey

Milford, PA

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[Ed_K]

Sorry to hear about your incident, Geoffrey, it seems you have the same situation like Jaap, you can see his story here under this link; may be Jaap can shine some light into this from his past experience.

 

http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/digital-forum/121761-dust-aid.html

[diogenis]

Sounds like an oily spot then, and obviously the platinum cannot lift it off, as it is only for dry cleaning.

Use the swabs you have, maybe add a drop of isopropyl alcohol more on them to remove the oil, then wipe clean again

[marknorton]

Jaap has commented that Eclipse 2 is not residue-free and what you're seeing may just be this residue. There was lots of noise about how the original fluid could damage sensors leading to the introduction of Eclipse 2 but Photo Solutions have now back-tracked, saying the original Eclipse is safe on all sensors and Eclipse 2 is being discontinued.

 

As for cleaning technique, even with a pre-moistened swab, the variables the manufacturer cannot control are swiping speed and pressure. You need to swipe slowly - I work on 5 seconds for an M8, 8 seconds for a full frame camera in each direction and you need to press sufficiently hard to slightly bend the swab blade. It goes without saying that the swab should be square to the edges of the frame and in contact across its full width. Practice on a blank CD with some dust or oily deposit.

 

I think companies selling cleaning products like to play to their customers' anxieties and achieve healthy mark-ups in doing so. A Sensor Swab looks for all the world to be a strip of Pec*Pad wrapped around a former but Photo Solutions claim that while Pec*Pads are suitable for cleaning your $10,000 Noctilux, they are not suitable for cleaning your sensor because the material used in Sensor Swabs is different. As in, "attracts a higher proft margin".

 

You can understand them wanting to discourage people like me reusing Sensor Swabs with a fresh Pec*Pad which is what I do. A Sensor Swab costs $3.75, a Pec*Pad (which will make 2 or 3 Sensor Swabs) costs less than $0.10.

[jaapv]

indeed E2 leaves a residue if used in excess, as it will be when removing DustAid adhesive. Swab with a different brand, even DA fluid,used SPARINGLY on an Aps size swab to remove the puddle rings.

[SJP]

Indeed whatever cleaning fluid you use the last swab should be done with a small amount of fluid, as that will leave the least residue, rings etc.

 

Personally I use analytical grade isopropyl alcohol and lab-grade cotton swabs or lab-grade Kleenex. I can get this easily via the chemistry lab at the university. This is much cheaper than any of the commercial products and uses a very pure cleaning fluid.

 

The same method is used for cleaning laser set-ups, where any dust & residue can damage your (very expensive) optical components. In some cases you use chloroform which gives even less "striping" but that is not at all advisable for a camera.

[gpleica]

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Just for clarification, Jaap, what is "DA fluid" and an "Aps" size swab?

 

Geoffrey

[gib_robinson]

I the Eclipse liquid safe for lens cleaning? I've heard both yes and no answers to that question.

 

--Gib

[Ed_K]

And i have heard nice comments about Smear Away (by Visible Dust), guess i am going to visit a retailer or two to pick up a bottle with some green swap, as a future backup.

[kipdent]

I concur with the original poster about how the M9 seems to be more challenging than other digital cameras when it comes to sensor cleaning. I have never spent so much time trying and re-trying to clean a sensor than now, seemingly caught in an infinite loop of dust-to-streaks, streaks-to-oil droplets, oil droplets-to-fluid pooling, and fluid pooling-to-dust all over again. I guess additional experience and the collected wisdom of others on this Forum will eventually help, but right now it is pretty painful.

 

I have some things to share and ask about: I have found the best success so far with a counterintuitive approach, which I'll get to below. First, though, I think I made a big mistake by trying to remove my first presence of dust with a full-frame width Visible Dust brush. Because the Arctic Butterfly motor that "charges" the brush makes the bristles slowly flare out over time and make the brush wider than the sensor, it rubbed against the camera's box around the sensor and picked up some oil residue which was then transferred to the sensor's glass cover. It is this event I have been fighting and trying to rectify ever since. So, my recommendation is to only try removing simple dust, if that is all you have, with a Giottos Rocket Brush or similar tool instead of a brush that may bump up against the camera's sides along the sensor's edge. Apparently these edges in the M9 have oil on them. I have noticed the Rocket device seems to remove simple dust spots quite effectively, and I wish I had done that first.

 

Now that oil has found its way onto the sensor glass, I am using the original Eclipse fluid on swabs made by Visible Dust. I chose these swabs because the dealer I went to recommended against using a full-frame width swab on the M9, mostly because like my experience with the Visible Dust brush, they felt the risk of drawing oil onto the sensor glass was too great. The only brand of smaller swabs they carried was Visible Dust, so I purchased them. I have to admit that though it takes more swipes to clean the sensor than it would with a full-frame width swab, I feel better about being able to avoid the extreme edges of the box. What do other experienced folks feel about this point?

 

Here's the counterintuitive approach to cleaning that I've discovered: I seem to have better luck starting my Eclipse treated swab in the *center* of the sensor, then swiping it towards an edge, thus "pushing" contaminants towards the edges rather than pulling them from the edges. Again, this approach, especially with a smaller swab, requires more swipes, but for me it has worked better than anything else I have tried. The really depressing part of all this is I've only had the M9 for about three weeks now and so I wonder if this routine is going to haunt me throughout ownership of this lovely camera. I enjoy changing lenses at will, too, but I'm getting gun shy. Of course, if I had somehow managed to never get oil on the sensor's glass in the first place and only ever used the Rocket air brush to remove dust, this whole post may have been unnecessary. Food for thought!

[jaapv]

I meant APS-C size swabs and Dust-Aid fluid. Sorry, Im posting from phone....

[Frank Sprow]

I have found the process is best when it is used sparingly. I only clean when I see spots begin to appear in "real" photos. Since I rarely take photos of the sky, out of focus at f16, this isn't often!

 

Then I give the sensor cover a good blower blast to remove abrasive particles (not sure it works, but it feels good). I use a strong headlamp to examine where cleaning is needed and lab grade isopropyl alcohol lightly wetting a cotton swab (QTip). Very rarely need to repeat.

[Balivernes]

I only clean when I see spots begin to appear in "real" photos. Since I rarely take photos of the sky, out of focus at f16, this isn't often!

 

The path to sanity.....

 

 

(@kipdent: I experienced the same as you, and have since decided to stop testing for spots. Only take action when your pictures show traces, and that will mainly be on a f11/f16 landscape, up in the clear sky, where a quick spot removal click in LR or Aperture will fix with no pain).

[Shade]

If you're afraid of risking the sensor, you could always take it to your dealer and have them clean it for you.

 

I never clean my own sensor, too risky for me...

[Alnitak]

Kipdent, by way of encouragement, I had the same feeling about my M9, but after about six weeks it settled in and stopped spraying oil on the sensor. I would guess that the shutter mechanism takes a bit to settle in and therefore things are worse at first. Others here have reported the same.

 

Jeff

[yanceman]

Greetings all -

 

Thought I'd jump in and hopefully save folks some trouble as well as money. To introduce myself, I've been a camera repair tech for 25+ years and about two years ago I began doing sensor cleanings at the store I contract with. This procedure is done under a stereo zoom microscope using Pec Pad material and lab grade methanol, and so far have done several hundred and just had my first M9 come in.

 

I try and disuade most people from coming in direct contact with the IR filter, which is the piece of glass that is actually being cleaned. I recommend that only a good bulb type blower such as the Giotto "rocket" be used. Do not use canned air or compressors, as they can spit. I've also seen some ugly filters due to the use of the various brushes, sticky pads, and wipers on the market. I've even seen a couple that were destroyed, and replacement is very expensive.

 

There is no oil used in modern cameras, though a small amount of grease is used on the shutter cocking mechanism and the mirror mech in DSLRs. What you may be seeing is the cleaning solution puddling in small drops. If allowed to dry, it becomes difficult to remove. The wetting properties of the filter coatings on the different cameras varies greatly, and I've noticed that the new generation of "self cleaning sensor" cameras are more difficult to clean than the previous types. The M9's filter shares the wetting properties of the later cameras. This puddling tendency is what makes cleaning the M9 difficult, as well as that full frame cameras are just a PIA in general. It's easy to get locked into an endless loop of cleaning cycles. I would also strongly discourage the use of cotton and household wipes, due to lint and possible abrasion. I've found that the Pec Pad material is the best for the job, and I've tried most alternatives.

 

People seem to put off sensor cleaning 'till things have gotten fairly bad, probably due to damage concernes. And as the hand blowers only push air, it's almost impossible to damage anything in the camera. If using the camera, especially if changing lenses, in sandy/dirty conditions try and break down and clean your equipment at the end of the session or day. There is not much clearance between the shutter and IR filter, and if large chunks get trapped between the shutter can drag it across the IR while opening and closing and scratch the IR coating.

[Alnitak]

My main problem with the blowers is that they just seem to move the dirt around, and sometimes even blow more dirt into the camera. I tend to get my sensor clean and then wait for a bad bit of dust before cleaning again. Once I got the original oil or grease out--whatever it is, its lubricant and not dust--things have been good and I have had only had to do one more cleaning. Otherwise for little bits, I just live with it and clone them out when required.

[Guest ccmsosse]

I concur with the original poster about how the M9 seems to be more challenging than other digital cameras when it comes to sensor cleaning. I have never spent so much time trying and re-trying to clean a sensor than now, seemingly caught in an infinite loop of dust-to-streaks, streaks-to-oil droplets, oil droplets-to-fluid pooling, and fluid pooling-to-dust all over again. I guess additional experience and the collected wisdom of others on this Forum will eventually help, but right now it is pretty painful......

 

As a newbie I too posted for some advise on cleaning before .... I must admit I never got the sensor "perfect". As said elsewhere I too use the rocket blower as my first choice. The pre-packaged eclipse swabs (full size) didn't do it for me - I now used a swab and pre-moistended it myself with Eclipse fluid - the prepackaged swabs appeared "too" dry and did not remove stuff, instead at times added dust particles.

 

I am still learning, so this is just my experience so far..

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[sanyasi]

I visited my dealer last Thursday. I asked my contact to show me how he cleans the sensor. He used a standard Q-tip and alcohol (I have the 99% stuff at home). He first used the Arctic Butterfly to dry clean--a couple of swipes. He then poured a small amount of alcohol in a cap. Dipped one Q-tip in the cap, then used a second Q-tip to remove excess liquid from the first. He then very lightly dabbed across the surface of the glass covering the sensor. Took two attempts. He then used a rocket blower. I asked him about just moving the dust around. He indicated that the physics of the blower blows the dust particles up and out rather than around.

 

Spotless. My problem (and I suspect the problems of others with streaks) is that I had too much liquid on the Q-tip.

 

Everyone is free to call this guy a nut, but it worked just fine. The materials can be purchased when traveling. This method is much cheaper than all these expensive solutions and dabs. I suspect that the pricing reflects the basic paranoia of camera uses about the sensor--as in, only the best for my sensor.

[chris_tribble]

Still trying to work out why people use wet cleaning systems. I have two M9s and have had two M8s and have never done anything other than use Visible dust brushes (currently with Arctic Butterfly). No smears, no problems (but I never saw oil on my sensors either...).