S2 D.O.A.?

[mwilliamsphotography]

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Marc, you make good points and suggestions. The only problem with this forum what Arif just discovered - threads with photos for photo's sake get moved. It seems the only photos allowed in the camera specific (e.g, S2) forums are those which illustrate a particular technical point. Maybe I am wrong, but that's my perception from reading this forum a long time.

 

Arif, I will go look at your photos asap. The S2 is a joy isn't it.

 

Then make up something technical ... who is going to go searching all over the place to see S2 photos? You'd think the "Leica Forum" would cut the LEICA S2 owners some slack and allow images ... people want to see what the camera can do, not just read about what the camera can do. Jeeze.

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[andybarton]

This is the way the forum works

 

It's the same for every sub-forum.

[delander †]

This is the way the forum works

 

It's the same for every sub-forum.

 

Andy, have you ever considered doing it different like over on GetDPI where there are great photo threads devoted to one type of camera such as the M9?

 

I dont post there but I do like their way of doing things.

 

Jeff

 

PS And why the need to log in to see the photos and Barnacks Bar

[andybarton]

This isn't my forum, so, it's not my decision. But there's no reason why you shouldn't start an S2 photo thread on the photo section. Where's the problem there?

 

You need to be logged in to see the photographs. It's always been like that.

[Arif]

The larger versions of the S2 images can be seen on my blog as well in case anyone is interested:

Arif's Journeys

[c6gowin]

Arif, the Yabusama series of photos on your blog would make a good forum topic - S2 focusing techniques. I am curious how you managed to get the moving subjects in focus. For example, did you focus on a particular spot or manual focus the moving riders. It would be interesting to hear about your experience and learn what worked and didn't.

[LeicaS2]

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The request for focusing information makes sense. So does addressing it in a topic called "S2 in live use" rather than adding to "S2 DOA?"

[Arif]

Arif, the Yabusama series of photos on your blog would make a good forum topic - S2 focusing techniques. I am curious how you managed to get the moving subjects in focus. For example, did you focus on a particular spot or manual focus the moving riders. It would be interesting to hear about your experience and learn what worked and didn't.

 

Mark, I only wish they were shot with the S2 but most of that series was shot with the D3X and the APO Telyt Modular 400/2.8 with 1.4 converter. A few of of them were also shot with the D3S and the 70-200 with a 2x converter (handheld). I eagerly await the Leica S-350mm but think that it will have to be zone focussed to be able to capture one of these critical moments.

 

Zone focussing works fine, it did when I used to shoot film but one needs to be pretty good at fine tuning on the go. I am attaching one which I shot with the same D3x/APO Telyt R combo using zone focussing.

 

[tllabron]

That seems to be the standard defense chant, Jeff. But I've plenty of reason to suspect it of being a specious claim. I noted the reasons why I chose a different, and more future-flexible, path for my own choice earlier. I've since asked several photographers (commercial as well as art) for their perspective on the S2. All (except one) found it "interesting", none had touched one, and none had any interest in buying into the S2 system. Some would be interested in renting one for a few days but mainly for personal work. (Nobody seems to know where they could even rent one today. The story seems to be consistently "Maybe later this year). Certainly not a definitive survey but it is indicative to me of where the truth lies.

 

While there are S2 sales being made there's every reason to believe that they're relatively few and mostly to hobbyists and pseudo-pro landscape snappers. Production constipation is certainly one reason for this. But I don't think that the camera has made a compelling case for system-switching to professional commercial photographers who

have long been committed to Hassy, PhaseOne, and/or Mamiya. An let's be honest: Leica's stamina history in reflex cameras, and its ability to support the system in the manner that a commercial photographer needs support, are reasons to wait-and-see.

 

As I noted when I started this thread, I wish Leica well with the S2. But on any given day you're far more likely to see Elvis than an S2.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ken,

 

It is interesting your comments seem to be so negative just because there are not lines at the checkout counters waiting to buy the Leica S2. By the by, I don't see crowds standing in line at the checkout counters wanting the buy the Mamiya 645 AFD II either. In addition, I have been around for a lot of releases of new equipment and I have never known one that has broke on the market with a full stock of accessories and equipment. I had to wait 6 weeks for my Mamiya RB67 and when it came I had to wait another two weeks for the lenses.

Most professionals, I have known over the years, are never ones to jump to a new system, because for the most part, they are comfortable with what they are using and see no reason for changing. Your decision to go with the Mamiya 645 AFD II is an OK one in my opinion, but I would surmise that the people that you asked about the Leica S2 never used Leica cameras and optics extensively, especially the motorized versions. You probably will get your feathers ruffled, but I would put my old Leicaflex-R lenses up against your Mamiya lens any day of the week. I used to have a Mamiya RB67 and four lenses and they were very good, but never matched what I could do with my Leica equipment. Mamiya makes a good camera and good lenses, but nothing compared to Leitz glass.

I shot a dress rehearsal once with only 3-200 watts incandescent lights over 30 feet off the stage above (someone forgot to arrange with the lightning union to have someone there to light the rehersal) using my 180mm f/2.8 Elmarit-R and my 90mm f/2 Summicron-R, using Tri-X film pushed to 1600 ASA and I could blow the prints up to 11X14 from my 35mm film and the detail was astounding. I was shooting in conjunction with another photographer who was using a motorized Nikon and he did not get a quarter of the shoots that I did. His biggest problem was that he could not see through his viewfinder because it was so dark. Leicaflexes have always had very bright viewfinders.

Now your choice. Mamiya 645 AFD II will accept the P21 digital back ($7,295), but it is only 18 MP; the DL28 ($14,999) which goes on the AFD III (don’t know if it will work on your camera) is only 28 MP. The Mamiya DM-22 ($7,995)that will work on yours is 22 MP. The only one that I could find that was better than the Leica S2 was the Phase One 645 with a P65 back that is 60 MP, but it is $45,990. From what I have heard in the wind, it seems that Phase One has or is going to taken up by another organization in the not do distant future.

I don’t understand your comment: quote Leica's stamina history in reflex cameras, and its ability to support the system in the manner that a commercial photographer needs support, Unquote. I received nothing but excellent support from Leica all the time. I had a Leicaflex SL2 MOT and Leica R4’s with 19mm, 35mm, 90mm, 180mm and 400mm lenses. This system performed flawlessly for me whether I was in Kenya, Iceland, Spain, Japan or Singapore or any of the other of 18 different countries I have been in over the years. The Leciaflex SL2 MOT had over 10,000 rolls put through it and in the time that I had it it was sent in for service only once. When it came back it was just like new; I had to check the serial numbers because I had my stuff insured and for a minute I thought they had sent me the wrong camera and motor, but they were the ones that I sent in to them.

Needless to say, I think only the highest when I think of Leitz Wetlzar, they have never let me down and the equipment that I bought was used in some of the harshest climate extremes and my cameras and lenes gave me some of greatest pics.

 

Tom L.L.

[markowich]

Mark, I only wish they were shot with the S2 but most of that series was shot with the D3X and the APO Telyt Modular 400/2.8 with 1.4 converter. A few of of them were also shot with the D3S and the 70-200 with a 2x converter (handheld). I eagerly await the Leica S-350mm but think that it will have to be zone focussed to be able to capture one of these critical moments.

 

Zone focussing works fine, it did when I used to shoot film but one needs to be pretty good at fine tuning on the go. I am attaching one which I shot with the same D3x/APO Telyt R combo using zone focussing.

 

 

arif,

are you saying that you can nail focus on an eagle in flight using a 560mm (effective) lens, f?, by doing zone focusing (= guesstimating)? what does the image in 100% view look like? i might be able to believe in many things but not that the image is sharp in 100%. surely if you ony need web imaginary (like what you posted) , then i am with you.

peter

[stunsworth]

...are you saying that you can nail focus on an eagle in flight using a 560mm (effective) lens, f?, by doing zone focusing...

 

The exif data says that it's a 600mm lens shot at f4.

[Arif]

arif,

are you saying that you can nail focus on an eagle in flight using a 560mm (effective) lens, f?, by doing zone focusing (= guesstimating)? what does the image in 100% view look like? i might be able to believe in many things but not that the image is sharp in 100%. surely if you ony need web imaginary (like what you posted) , then i am with you.

peter

 

Hi Peter,

 

Please let me clarify zone focussing in this case. This picture was taken at a crane reserve in Northern Japan. Every day, the cranes are fed at certain times and the feeding also draws in Eagles who are big and powerful enough to take the fish away from the cranes. (you can find other pictures from this location on my website Arif Iqball Photography under recent work)

 

I found one of the fish on the ground and focussed a few feet away anticipating the path of the eagle as it swept down to pick up the fish and hence that is how I got this shot. The snow allowed me to have a fairly decent aperture since the background was not distracting. The shot is already cropped a bit but I am attaching a 100% crop as well. Not critically sharp but good enough for me since I was not expecting it to be critically sharp with a manual focus lens. I don't know what this will look like in print but I think it will be decent.

 

For the horseback archery, I have a pretty good idea where the archer will release the arrow from and I focus in on those areas and once in a while I get lucky to get a decent shot. If I had to do it differently, I would use the high speed D3s versus the D3x. The APO modular is the longest lens I have and that too because I bought it really cheap. I don't use the long lenses enough to justify buying a new one so am happy with what I can get. I enjoy the process of taking the picture as much as getting the picture so am not too hard on myself.

 

Hope that answers your question. I think only Doug is that good at manually focussing a lens

 

best regards,

Arif

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[plasticman]

OK, I will post a few taken over the weekend in a separate thread, not the best I have taken but using the S2 is pure fun.

 

Well, I tried but the thread was moved to the people forum so I guess it was not worth the trouble to post pictures from the S2.

 

It's very simple to post a link to images.

[markowich]

Hi Peter,

 

Please let me clarify zone focussing in this case. This picture was taken at a crane reserve in Northern Japan. Every day, the cranes are fed at certain times and the feeding also draws in Eagles who are big and powerful enough to take the fish away from the cranes. (you can find other pictures from this location on my website Arif Iqball Photography under recent work)

 

I found one of the fish on the ground and focussed a few feet away anticipating the path of the eagle as it swept down to pick up the fish and hence that is how I got this shot. The snow allowed me to have a fairly decent aperture since the background was not distracting. The shot is already cropped a bit but I am attaching a 100% crop as well. Not critically sharp but good enough for me since I was not expecting it to be critically sharp with a manual focus lens. I don't know what this will look like in print but I think it will be decent.

 

For the horseback archery, I have a pretty good idea where the archer will release the arrow from and I focus in on those areas and once in a while I get lucky to get a decent shot. If I had to do it differently, I would use the high speed D3s versus the D3x. The APO modular is the longest lens I have and that too because I bought it really cheap. I don't use the long lenses enough to justify buying a new one so am happy with what I can get. I enjoy the process of taking the picture as much as getting the picture so am not too hard on myself.

 

Hope that answers your question. I think only Doug is that good at manually focussing a lens

 

best regards,

Arif

 

arif,

thank you for the explanation. all clear now.

peter