Sensor problem?

[Shade]

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Does anyone know whats this problem here? Comes and goes, usually on first few frames.

 

Just used my M9 for a few weeks, didn't fall didn't knock.

 

Just happened 2 days ago.

 

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[Shade]

I tried reupgrading my fw, and formatted my sd.

[ho_co]

Quite strange. My first guess would be, yes, sensor problem.

 

But can you give more info:

This is a crop, right? What does the full frame look like?

Is this section intentionally out of focus, or is that part of the problem?

DNG or JPG or both?

If DNG, it's sometimes good to know what raw converter.

What lens? Coded? Aperture? Shutter speed? What mode was camera in?

"First few frames" means what? First shots on a card? First shots on a day? First shots after waking camera?

 

I know, most or all of that is probably irrelevant, but it might help with insight.

[k-hawinkler]

A short verbal description of the problem accompanying the image would be optimal, I think.

 

K-H.

[Shade]

Hi, sorry I didn't give much description..

 

It was DNG, compressed. I tried using Jpegs and uncompressed DNGs, turns out the same.

 

I suspect its a processor problem now, come to think of it, I have my other file, who was completely perfect before, and became something like the picture I posted above.

 

The first few frames are the first frames after I turn on the camera after turning it off for a while. Some times it doesn't appear, sometimes its there for one or two shots, and goes up to about 5 shots, and then its gone throughout the shoot.

 

Lens I'm using is the newest and 6-bit 50 lux asph.

 

The problem appears under any iso condition (light or dark situations), and at variable shutter speeds as well.

 

Thanks..

[ho_co]

It's certainly ugly, and it shouldn't be there.

 

Others will have a better idea of what happens after you snap the shutter than I, but it may be in the internal processing after the sensor. Maybe a connection.

 

You could send a file to customer service with a description like you've just given.

 

But if it behaves like that repeatedly, I think it needs to go for repair; whether it's sensor or processor is something Leica can figure out.

 

Maybe try a different card? Doesn't look like a card problem, but if you don't try it, you won't know.

 

 

But wait. What do you mean when you say:

... I have my other file, who was completely perfect before, and became something like the picture I posted above. ...

 

Do you have another copy (JPG, say) of the same file? Once a file is written to card or disk, it won't change on its own.

 

Are you transferring files with a cable or a card reader? Have you tested your card reader with other cameras? What program are you using to view the files? Is it on Mac or PC?

 

 

It's not likely, but it might even be the lens. Do you have another lens you could try on your M9, or another M body to try the lens on? Someone on the forum had a lens (I don't think it was made by Leica) with a loose element. If he pointed the lens up, it worked fine; when pointed down, the element slipped out of place and gave bad pictures.

 

Is this the whole frame you show above, or just part of the frame?

 

Did you focus on something in what we see in your opening post, or did you focus on something out of the image?

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It's only part of the frame, I cropped it. Here's a link to the whole frame, untouched, only processed it from DNG in CS.

 

 

Also - yes, it's wierd that it affects already "written" file. But only one file (the first image in my SD card) that was affected. And yes, I'm very certain, because it's very noticable, and I looked at the picture before and I am absolutely sure it wasn't there.

 

I'm trying to switch lenses, I used my 35 lux last night, so far no wierd frame.

 

Oh also - I think this started when I tried out my new SF58 Leica flash.. Maybe a short circuit?

[Shade]

Btw, in some cases, it's worse - these errors. I'll post the worst one when I'm back home, currently on a trip..

[ho_co]

Boy, I love the shot! Great use of the minimal depth of field; the lady may be a little bright, but that's all adjustable to taste. Forget my suggestion of a loose element--it's very sharp.

 

Thanks for posting the whole frame; now we can get a feel for how the funny stuff looks in context. It's definitely strange.

 

 

Have you looked directly at the sensor with the camera in sensor-cleaning mode? You normally wouldn't see anything like dust on the sensor, but this might be a smudge of some sort. It looks almost as if someone drew on the sensor with a paintbrush. It could be that light rays from a certain angle catch it and make it show up in some shots but not others.

 

I'm getting curious.

 

No need to rush; others will probably have better ideas than mine.

[adan]

Things I notice - the effect seems to follow tone lines, or areas of the same shade between blurred highlights and shadows. For example, the greenish hatch marks tend to surround the bright holes in the out-of-focus chairs.

 

Also, the lines are vertical.

 

It also seems to appearing all over the image - I see purple and green artifacts and posterization in the floor on the left side as well as the wall and chairs on the right side. Correct?

 

If one of your images actually changed after being copied from the camera to your computer, then the cause must be outside the camera.

 

Are you copying the images to your computer before trying to open them in "CS" (which I assume means Photoshop CS2/3/4 and Camera Raw?), or are you opening them and processing them while they are still on the SD card, either in a reader or in the camera (USB connection)?

[Shade]

Its definitely a camera problem, I just got the error 30 minutes ago, and I haven't even stuck it to my laptop.

[thrice]

Its definitely a camera problem, I just got the error 30 minutes ago, and I haven't even stuck it to my laptop.

 

You sure? I often get some funky things like this when I pull white balance in lightroom, but never in capture one. I'd download a trial of capture one just in case. If you're seeing it exactly like that on the camera LCD then I guess it could be an in-camera problem. I don't understand how it could occur on a shot that has already been recorded which used to be fine. The camera doesn't go back and "reprocess" images once they've been stored.

 

When you say you haven't stuck it to your laptop, do you mean you processed the image on your desktop computer? Or somehow posted it directly from the camera

[Shade]

I only took the first image out.

 

And yes, the error is visible on the camera lcd, without the need of looking through the computer.

 

Btw, its also occuring on new frames. I just shot my dinner occassion, the first 5-6 frames after I turn my camera on gives that error again..

[250swb]

Its just a thought, but have you had a look at your sensor? The general arrangement of random blobs, and then the speckles that follow edges of contrast change, look like they may be caused by some sort of diffraction of the light. Oil on the sensor with new cameras is common, and it usually can be mistaken for dust. But then again if it was contamination it would have to be 'thick', like a tide mark, to cause diffraction. Another thought is to try another SD card before thinknig that it must be the camera, and format it in the camera.

 

Steve

[Shade]

I checked my sensor, nothing seems to be wrong.

 

I also formatted and re-formatted my SD card. Along with re-installing my firmware. Still no avail.

 

Problem is, the blob or errors are random, and as stated above, it tends to appear in transition scenes, such as gradations from dark to light, or in high contrast areas.

 

I haven't used a different card though, will try later - but I doubt it'll solve the problem.

[D&A]

HI,

 

Of course it's very hard to know at this point..but if you are seeing it on the rear LCD screen on the camera right after the shot, then as others have pointed out, it's one of three things....the sensor (defective), and/or the in-camera processor or something physical on the sensor. If firmware was re-loaded from the same download...I'd instead download and re-load the firmware again (possibly from one of Leica's others sites). Then I would gently and carefully clean the sensor (wet method). I relaize the effect goes away after 2-5 initial shots after the camera's been off a while and if so, then something physical on the sensor doesn't seem like a strong possibility. If you do these two things 1. dowload firmware from again and onto a different SD card from a different Leica site and re-load and 2. Wet clean carefull the sensor and 3. use a completely different SD card and attempt to try to dulicate artifacts.

 

If after doing the above, it doesn't eleiminate the issue, then I'm out of suggestions personally what you can do yourself to try to eliminate the issue and it's then I believe it's time to approach Leica, unfortunately. It can be maddening and fustrating at time, these sorts of issues but hope you get it sorted out quickly and get back to what we all love.

 

Dave (D&A)

[250swb]

I checked my sensor, nothing seems to be wrong.

 

.

 

OK, I just thought that like dust only shows up when the lens is stopped down, so after the first few images you may have gone from stopped down to wide open while testing the camera, hence the problem disappearing. Good luck with finding the solution.

 

Steve

[adan]

Folks, these marks are clearly linked to tonal transitions in the pictures. How could "something on the sensor" move around with every shot to affect the edges of highlights and shadows in different shots?

 

Attached is a contrast- and saturation-enhanced part of the OP's image. And a "Find edges" filtering of the same area - the artifacts (purple and green boxes) create almost a pencil sketch of the lights and shadows.

 

If we are certain it is taking place in the camera, it is something in the data processing chain. Could be the sensor - but I tend to suspect something in the analog-to-digital conversion.

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[250swb]

Folks, these marks are clearly linked to tonal transitions in the pictures. How could "something on the sensor" move around with every shot to affect the edges of highlights and shadows in different shots?

.

 

Well it was only an idea. If light is hitting the sensor and going through crap to get there via different angles and edges of contrast it may be possible. Its only like looking through a clear window square on only to move to one side and see its smeared with fingerprints or dust.

 

Steve

[Mauribix]

My guess, if it's in the camera, it seems to be an electronic issue.

Sensor? I don't think but we can't exclude, anyway my guess is that of a processor's issue, something related to the DR control.

It should be interesting to see the behavior with the camera set on a tripod, framing the same scene from 80iso to 2500iso.

I think it could be more evident in a lower iso (80) rather than a higher one(1600-2500).

 

Shade, could you make and post those shots?