X1 vs the M9 for low light only

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I have an M9 and recently bought and was and still might sell the X1..It's a fine camera but with my other gear I didnt think I needed it right now.

 

But as luck with have it, I am shooting an interesting project that is at night low light and I can't use a flash. The small size of the X1 and it's ability to shoot decently at high ISO would be perfect.

 

Taking the M9 on this shoot is not ideal also because of the size...smaller the better..

 

any examples of low light shots and comments appreciated.

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[Paul Hart]

Just so happens that I've been doing some informal low light comparison shots of the M9+Summilux 35 ASPH against the X1.

 

Both at ISO 1600 and f2.8

 

Both shot in RAW and processed identically in Lightroom 3 (Beta 2).

 

I've uploaded them in full size to my Flickr site, where they can be viewed here:

 

M9-X1 - a set on Flickr

 

The M9 has the edge (I would have been dismayed if it didn't) but the X1 has no reason to blush at all.

[Cirrus]

Just so happens that I've been doing some informal low light comparison shots of the M9+Summilux 35 ASPH against the X1.

 

Both at ISO 1600 and f2.8

 

Both shot in RAW and processed identically in Lightroom 3 (Beta 2).

 

I've uploaded them in full size to my Flickr site, where they can be viewed here:

 

M9-X1 - a set on Flickr

 

The M9 has the edge (I would have been dismayed if it didn't) but the X1 has no reason to blush at all.

 

Paul- I'm not sure what you mean by "the edge" and I'm not sure that output from the two cameras should be processed identically. I'm using the M8-1, M9 and X1 and my experience is that the noise is much lower from the X1 than either of the M cameras. The 9 is just as noisy as the 8, but for a given print size there is less enlargement so the 9 has an advantage over the 8. This advantage might be one stop or a bit less. The X is probably 3 stops quieter than 8, 2 stops over the 9. As for other image qualities, I'm not commenting. They look different although they can be made to look pretty much the same in processing.

Dan

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I am glad I made this topic and thank you for the helpful posts.

 

I was lucky enough to get an X1 very fast but it came a few days after the M9 which is new to me and another Canon 5D II...I felt momentarily overloaded and after really not giving the X1 a fair chance in a few tests (hate the manual focus which I can;t imagine even using).

 

I didn't and might not need the X1 that much but as luck would have it, the project I am working on demands what the X1 has to offer in terms of size, quality and ISO performance.

 

Luckily my auction ended on ebay with the winner probably being from Nigeria. He "won' at $2900!!!

 

I emailed him before the auction ended that I said in my auction I will not sell to bidders with less than 10 positive feedbacks..He has 2...

 

So I can cancel this transaction and give the X1 a bit more time and see how it performs in a real world setting that i have in mind...

 

Good posts and good results from this little camera!

[wda]

A very good move after (in my opinion) an initial, somewhat hasty, decision. Few photographers are faced with your problem of learning to live with both a new M9 and an X1. Take your time. I set aside using my M8 so that I could concentrate on mastering the X1; that paid dividends.

 

Treat the X1 as a totally different but complementary partner to your rangefinder camera. There will be many occasions in your life when the smaller and compact X1 will travel with you when the bigger camera system would be cumbersome or inappropriate. Consider yourself lucky to face such a dilemma.

[jsrockit]

The X1 is a very simple camera... why would you guys have to concentrate on learning it? I'm not trying to be a jerk, I'm just curious.

[diogenis]

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Because it is not as simple as an M is...

You need to read that manual to understand that 11 point focus is faster than spot focus, and the slower focus mode, the one with the circle is the most accurate. Then you also have MF for distances between 30 and 60 cms.. Also, it has several metering modes as well, that icons can't tell what they are. Menu system is not small either, even though it's just a couple of levels structured, still there is 2x or 3x that of an M menu system. The M is still the simplest camera !!

[diogenis]

One other complexity is, when you use the camera fully auto and it finds a base EV exposure of speed and f/stop, then you can walk across back or forth a set of exposure values that change both values, when for instance you want to use higher speeds or larger apertures. I'm not really sure on this complexity, but again, the tried route of right/left leds and central "ok" lamp I believe is a lot better approach than X1's. Besides this way you can also compensate in one go. You still need EV compensation with the X approach

[jsrockit]

Because it is not as simple as an M is...

You need to read that manual to understand that 11 point focus is faster than spot focus, and the slower focus mode, the one with the circle is the most accurate. Then you also have MF for distances between 30 and 60 cms.. Also, it has several metering modes as well, that icons can't tell what they are. Menu system is not small either, even though it's just a couple of levels structured, still there is 2x or 3x that of an M menu system. The M is still the simplest camera !!

 

However, the OP has a Canon DSLR, so all of those modes are par for the course in those cameras. To me, you just go use it and it comes to you. Metering modes and AF modes aren't that hard to learn. If you just chose one of each and stuck with them, you'd be fine most of the time.

[PayPerView]

However, the OP has a Canon DSLR, so all of those modes are par for the course in those cameras. To me, you just go use it and it comes to you. Metering modes and AF modes aren't that hard to learn. If you just chose one of each and stuck with them, you'd be fine most of the time.

 

Who said I knew how to use Canon's? lol.

 

But yes of course the X1 is not that hard but still when we are shooting fast and in the middle of one kind of shot and then another opportunity is suddenly there and you have to change focus type, metering or anything it's going to take quite a bit of time to 'master' the camera and it's tempting not to.

 

How many DSLR users don't know how to use large % of features on their cameras? I was on the phone for an hour with Canon tech trying to get an answer about using flash and forcing it to fire under certain conditions. I don't even remember the exact question. The CSR had to find out and get back to me about it.

 

Yes the X1 is far simpler than my DSLR but it's also completely different...you can fake it better with a DSLR...the lightening fast focus and ability to shoot on P or automatic can get you out of trouble quickly or in trouble quickly if you don't remember how to change your settings back!

[mah]

X1 night shot at ISO 1600:

 

Place Vendome on Flickr - Photo Sharing!

 

Thanks.

[ChiILX1]

I've heard the sensor is better on the X1, but being a full frame I would have thought the M9 a better performer. Some are saying X1 images are better than M9 images. What I'm seeing is that they are both fantastic and that one's shot isn't better than the other's besides through the photographer's creative and technical ability.

 

I feel like (from reading so much and seeing so many photos) the X1 is the ideal compact Leica- Barnack style camera while the M9 is for those who want interchangeable lens flexibility, rangefinder interaction, and higher megapixels (for those who need them for cropping and prints). The X1 is limited in photo possibilities by the lens but is just as good for what it can do as the M9 is, it's just that the M9 can do more due to the lenses.

 

Atleast that's what I'm reading from those with dual ownership, photo comparisons, and general knowledge. They seem totally complimentary for those who would shoot dual Leica professionally- an X1 allows for the M9 to be mounted with a 50, 90, or wide angle depending on your job and would be a great combination for any professional gig. In that case I haven't seen anything that would warrant someone wanting to buy a 35mm lens for their M9 from just spending that money on an X1 and having everyday photo opportunities as an extra (unless they wanted the faster Summicron or Summilux but with the great 3200 ISO performance that is even a minimal argument).

 

These could be off conclusions but are generally what sense I'm getting from others.

[Guest X1s]

The ability of the X1 to (FOCUS) in low light situations is marginal at best. There are allot of threads in responce to (low light) shooting with the X1, if you can get the X1 camera to focus? then the noise factor is great compared to the others. I'd use the M9 period. X1 is great for well lit shots generally speaking.

 

emma

[PayPerView]

Feels like forever since I made this thread and the subject is moot...I called off the low light project for the most part and while the X1 is just an awesome camera, it sits in my bag, just not used...

 

But that might change as I always want a camera with me for the most part and it's size and performance is incredible.

 

thanks for reminding me I have it! lol...

[h00ligan]

Well, the shot I saw was f3.4 ??

[phancj]

The ability of the X1 to (FOCUS) in low light situations is marginal at best. There are allot of threads in responce to (low light) shooting with the X1, if you can get the X1 camera to focus? then the noise factor is great compared to the others. I'd use the M9 period. X1 is great for well lit shots generally speaking.

 

emma

 

Thats funny coz without flash the shots out of my X1 is better than even many of that which comes out of my nikon D300. I am talking about low light conditions. I dont know how low before the AF starts to struggle but I have used f2.8 iso 1600 shutter speed 1/60 to photograph my dog in a dimly lit room without AF problems.

 

In fact I think the high iso performance of the X1 being so good compared to the M9 means it is better for low light, that is compared to say the M9 with a summarit or elmarit, not the lux. The M9 images are pretty noisy at moderate iso, but the images are sharper than the X1 OOC before sharpening.

 

Each has it strengths I think.

 

I am in the balance of whether I should get the M9, its smaller than my DSLR but heavy and compared to the X1 does not impart a lot of size advantages. Then there is that compromised high iso performance and lack of AF. I like the lux images but frankly lately I have been looking at my nikon all over again and the portraits that come out of my new AFS 85mm f1.4G are astounding with superb bokeh, I dare say a certain "Leica look". I'll try further and compare to the 35 cron and 50 lux which I will be privy to trying when they arrive (currently all sold out). My Nikkor 35mm f1.4G is also on preorder so I am looking at this very objectively. In any case both the M9 and my Nikkor primes command good resale so I do not worry too much about buying and trying.

 

But my DSLR is big and clunky, but the M9 is so expensive and I gotta baby it and take good care. The X1 and the DSLR I dare to rough it out more.

 

Honestly right now I do not see myself comparing the X1 with any other camera because it is so tiny and light, the 35mm equivalent is the most useful, and it takes fantastic photos. I think I'll keep the X1 for good.

 

The M9 vs DSLR decision will take me a little while more, but at the back of my mind I think I may most likely end up with both. The Ms appear more suited for wide angle to normal photography, DSLRs forte is in the big zooms, telephotos, and macro. At the end of the day, somehow I think each system will find a niche in my hobby.

 

The X1 stays the most used. I just lugged the DSLR with 85mm f1.4g today and it aint fun compared to the X1 in my belt pack.

[phancj]

I've heard the sensor is better on the X1, but being a full frame I would have thought the M9 a better performer. Some are saying X1 images are better than M9 images. What I'm seeing is that they are both fantastic and that one's shot isn't better than the other's besides through the photographer's creative and technical ability.

 

I feel like (from reading so much and seeing so many photos) the X1 is the ideal compact Leica- Barnack style camera while the M9 is for those who want interchangeable lens flexibility, rangefinder interaction, and higher megapixels (for those who need them for cropping and prints). The X1 is limited in photo possibilities by the lens but is just as good for what it can do as the M9 is, it's just that the M9 can do more due to the lenses.

 

Atleast that's what I'm reading from those with dual ownership, photo comparisons, and general knowledge. They seem totally complimentary for those who would shoot dual Leica professionally- an X1 allows for the M9 to be mounted with a 50, 90, or wide angle depending on your job and would be a great combination for any professional gig. In that case I haven't seen anything that would warrant someone wanting to buy a 35mm lens for their M9 from just spending that money on an X1 and having everyday photo opportunities as an extra (unless they wanted the faster Summicron or Summilux but with the great 3200 ISO performance that is even a minimal argument).

 

These could be off conclusions but are generally what sense I'm getting from others.

 

What you said is interesting.

 

Sometimes on the days when I feel like covering more range I have the X1 in a belt pouch on the left and a DSLR on a Blackrapid strap on my right.

 

Doesnt happen often though, the X1 has spoilt me in terms of size of a camera. I wish Nikon, canon and others will jump into the bandwagon too.

[ptu]

Few more ISO 1600 pictures

Photokina2010-1

Photokina2010-2

There is some more high iso pictures there too.

Night shot, free hand

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Hallo,

Look here: Interesting Leica gear

[JeTexas]

The X1 does ok at night if there isn't too much movement. Here's some of my recent shots: http://www.flickr.com/photos/21557832@N00/sets/72157625165813754/

 

However, if you've seen some of the results from the M9 with a Noctilux, I think it blows away the X1. http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/people/146078-babe-watch.html

[ldhrads]

I'm sure the X1 is great fun and quality to have, but you can't mount a noctilux or even a summilux on it...Nighttime with a M9 and Noctilux is magical.

As far as babying the M9 there are plenty of us out there that will tell you that's completely unnecessary.